UKC Forums - Money, Money, Money II

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Posted by shane_atchison on 12-17-2018 06:52 PM:

The performance program would be a good start. Youth hunters, PKC hunters & pleasure hunters are the target consumer. When the program began it sparked a lot of interest & could do so again. They didn't stay on top of it and it has became stagnant. A $300 point is more enticing than a $100 one. I do not have the all answers, but hundreds of people receiving 2-3x what they currently are at the local level is better than a few receiving thousands at the national level..

__________________
Shane

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-17-2018 07:29 PM:

Sounds great on paper but where would that money come from? Currently you pretty much win double your entry fee. You don't think that is enough? You are suggesting that if you win first place registered at a hunt with ten entries, you should win $300. That would be pretty good for a $20 entry fee. But If you majored in Finance, you know that isn't possible. You are asking for something that you know is unobtainable.

Posted by shane_atchison on 12-17-2018 07:46 PM:

Easily obtainable actually. $25,000 just appeared out of nowhere. By streamlining the program, allowing additional participants, and slight increases across the board $200+ isnt out of reach. I think some of the program fees have remained the same since it's inception..

__________________
Shane

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 12-17-2018 08:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
Easily obtainable actually. $25,000 just appeared out of nowhere. By streamlining the program, allowing additional participants, and slight increases across the board $200+ isnt out of reach. I think some of the program fees have remained the same since it's inception..

You don't get it. The $25,000 did not appear out of no where it comes from the pockets of those who will enter in a RQE and the zone. An increase of $5 making the entry fee $35 instead of $30 just with RQE entries at the current level without any added interest in attending equalates to nearly $20,000 this is without any extra added to the cost of entering the zone.
If you want to suggest ideas on increasing your local hunt attendance by implementing in the future state races ect our ears are open but this $25,000 was not pulled out of thin air or UKC's pocket it will be from the pockets of those who wish to try and get to the WC.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
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(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 12-17-2018 08:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
Easily obtainable actually. $25,000 just appeared out of nowhere. By streamlining the program, allowing additional participants, and slight increases across the board $200+ isnt out of reach. I think some of the program fees have remained the same since it's inception..

One more thing the performance program is also from the pockets of those who participate in it any raise in point values would come from raising fees for sire owners and those registering pups. It is very much a pyramid skeem that we all choose to participate in. All dollars in the fund minus a 10% operating fee to UKC are from moneys collected from site owners who pay their dogs up and breeders who enter pups into the program along with puppy buyers who pay pups up into the program. When you talk of paying out $200-$300 a piont it sounds great but is not feasible without a significant rate increase that comes from your fellow hunters pockets. Increased participation with fewer dogs who are eligible getting wins causes the point value to raise. I have in the past made suggestions about changes to the registration papers with fees listed directly on them so that more may be likely to pay their pups up. I've also suggested allowing pups over one year of age to be paid up at an increasing rate scale and allowing an individual litter fee for those who may breed to a sire who is not performanced by his owner.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-17-2018 09:14 PM:

See, Jen actually has good ideas on how to improve the program instead of just talking about it.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 12-17-2018 10:00 PM:

And one more thing that many probably won't agree with me on but here goes anyway... I want to commend UKC for choosing to give the extra entry fee money back out to the hunters for an added purse at the World.
I have been asking some how long has the RQE entry been at $30. All say as long as they can remember. So even though with inflation over decade/s cost increase was never passed down to hunters. I do believe that over time cost should have been raised gradually so that plaques, hat pins ect could have continued but most these days would just assume have the $.

Posted by shane_atchison on 12-17-2018 10:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
[B]You don't get it. The $25,000 did not appear out of no where it comes from the pockets of those who will enter in a RQE and the zone. /B]

Actually I do get it. They made a slight increase to all participants to be able to offer a large payout. Imagine if they did that to the Performance program..

__________________
Shane

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-18-2018 01:02 AM:

And you are a finance major. With the number of winners in the Performance Program, they would have to make a substantial increase in fees to make a slight increase in point value. And increasing fees would decrease participation. I don't believe that Mr Gingerich has a degree in finance but either he sure does know a lot about money or somebody up there does. I wonder if it is one of the new owners.

Posted by shane_atchison on 12-18-2018 02:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
And you are a finance major. With the number of winners in the Performance Program, they would have to make a substantial increase in fees to make a slight increase in point value. And increasing fees would decrease participation. I don't believe that Mr Gingerich has a degree in finance but either he sure does know a lot about money or somebody up there does. I wonder if it is one of the new owners.

Actually as it is now when a dog wins a hunt there's a better chance he's not paid into the program. No substantial fee increases are needed to significantly increase point value.
Allow 12-18 mo. old pups at $150 each
Allow a stud 1 breeding without entering program $200
Increase yearly stud enrollment fee $25-50(way overdue)
Increase pup enrollment fee $10
Not sending out checks less than $50 will put $10,000-20,000 in the fund before the year even begins..
There's $100,000 or so to start with at very little additional cost to anyone..

__________________
Shane

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 12-18-2018 04:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
Actually as it is now when a dog wins a hunt there's a better chance he's not paid into the program. No substantial fee increases are needed to significantly increase point value.
Allow 12-18 mo. old pups at $150 each
Allow a stud 1 breeding without entering program $200
Increase yearly stud enrollment fee $25-50(way overdue)
Increase pup enrollment fee $10
Not sending out checks less than $50 will put $10,000-20,000 in the fund before the year even begins..
There's $100,000 or so to start with at very little additional cost to anyone..

When PKC past the rule the any breeder could breed to non super stakes stud an super stake that litter for $200 the super stake payout went broke, PKC then called all stud owners and asked for $100 donation so could pay the super stakes winners (I know because I got that phone call) a breeder could now breed For $200 instead of paying the average stud fee of $300 to a stud that payed $700 to super stake his stud, it was an is a slap in the face to all stud owners the has supported the super stakes program, now if UKC let’s breeders breed to any non performance stud for $100 or $200 the program will die. It should be no less than the average stud price of $300.

Posted by shane_atchison on 12-18-2018 04:18 AM:

I was thinking in UKC you could pay up a sire for $100

__________________
Shane

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 12-18-2018 04:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
I was thinking in UKC you could pay up a sire for $100

That is correct, what I’m saying is if you allow breeders to breed to a non Performance dog at a price cheaper than the average stud fee of $300 Why breed to a performance stud? Over hafe the performance studs will not pay into the program.

Posted by shane_atchison on 12-18-2018 04:52 AM:

I see what you're saying in SS some guys quit paying $700 for the year and paid the reduced rate of $200 for 1 litter. In UKC guys are currently paying $100 for a year, do you think guys will quit doing that to pay an increased rate of $200 for 1 litter?

__________________
Shane

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 12-18-2018 05:11 AM:

Yes, why pay a $300 stud fee to a performance stud when you can pay UKC $200 an have a Performance liter. You just saved $100 and the program will fail because the dog you bred to is not advertised as a performance stud and will likely only produce one performance liter.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-18-2018 05:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
Actually as it is now when a dog wins a hunt there's a better chance he's not paid into the program. No substantial fee increases are needed to significantly increase point value.
Allow 12-18 mo. old pups at $150 each
Allow a stud 1 breeding without entering program $200
Increase yearly stud enrollment fee $25-50(way overdue)
Increase pup enrollment fee $10
Not sending out checks less than $50 will put $10,000-20,000 in the fund before the year even begins..
There's $100,000 or so to start with at very little additional cost to anyone..

Mr Atchison, all of that sounds great on paper. You need to call Mr Gingerich and discuss your ideas with him. I am sure that he is open to helpful suggestions. After all Tarbaby calls him and he listens. Since the fund only has $180,000 now, another $100,000 would make a big difference.

Posted by shane_atchison on 12-18-2018 07:22 PM:

Oh no, I've seen hundreds of post on format & rule changes and ideas and how to improve attendance for years even multiple polls with majority wanting changes and very little has happened. If they can't read their own website or look at their attendance numbers over the last decade they don't want to hear from 1 man..

__________________
Shane

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-18-2018 07:44 PM:

Then why does Tarbaby keep calling them? Apparently they listen to him when he has a suggestion about the hunts. But of course they don't pay a bit of attention when he starts rambling on about bench shows.

Posted by sleepy head on 12-18-2018 07:49 PM:

Richard your gonna run out of bait if your not carful

Posted by yadkintar on 12-18-2018 08:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Then why does Tarbaby keep calling them? Apparently they listen to him when he has a suggestion about the hunts. But of course they don't pay a bit of attention when he starts rambling on about bench shows.

The thought of me loping my k9 at the world show repulses them !!

Tarbaby

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