UKC Forums - This Should Be Good

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-- This Should Be Good (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928506433)

Posted by DFred on 07-10-2018 09:28 PM:

I'm not sure you could get around to huntin and treein if you can't even get the dog loaded, lol.

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Posted by shadinc on 07-10-2018 09:45 PM:

I would put the two dogs together away form his owners truck. If he's still aggressive, scratch him. If not, go hunting.

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 07-11-2018 03:26 AM:

jockey for postion

Ive heard of jockeying for position on the tree, but never heard of it while going to the truck. Bottom line is I think in this situation it is the judges call, you can ? it and go back into the MOH, but it was a judgement call so good luck. I know if I was the judge and thought it to really be a problem regardless of what the MOH said I wouldn't cut my dog loose with that mean junk. If the MOH overturned me Id be more than happy to still judge, it would than just his dog in the cast. I don't think any win is worth getting a dog ate up.

Posted by Rip on 07-11-2018 03:42 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: This Should Be Good

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Yates
INTERFERE WITH WHAT?

VERBATIM:

1) SHOWING AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR AND 2) INTERFERE WITH ANOTHER DOG(S) DURING AUTHORITY OF JUDGE.

SO, DID HE INTERFERE WITH THE DOG'S ABILITY TO PROCEED TO TRUCK AND LOAD? DID HE INTERFERE WITH DOG'S ABILITY TO TRAVEL UNMOLESTED TO THE HUNTING AREA?

SOME FOLK THINK IT HAS TO BE DURING HUNT TIME, WHEN THIS IS NOT THE CASE. WHAT IF THEY HAVE TO BE LOADED IN BOX TOGETHER?

AND I'M NOT GETTING EXCITED.

There is an AND in the stipulation for attempting to fight. Yes if he ran the dog off that would be interference but you didn't say that. You just said the dog was acting a fool.

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Posted by joey on 07-11-2018 07:09 AM:

Re: jockey for postion

quote:
Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Ive heard of jockeying for position on the tree, but never heard of it while going to the truck. Bottom line is I think in this situation it is the judges call, you can ? it and go back into the MOH, but it was a judgement call so good luck. I know if I was the judge and thought it to really be a problem regardless of what the MOH said I wouldn't cut my dog loose with that mean junk. If the MOH overturned me Id be more than happy to still judge, it would than just his dog in the cast. I don't think any win is worth getting a dog ate up.

Its not the judges call there is a black and white rule for it. You have to have aggression AND interference for him to be scratched. The interference has to be with the dogs ability to hunt and tree. If it happened after they were cut loose and it caused the other dog not to go hunting then he could be scratched, but the only way to do it on the leash is if the dog actually jumps on the other dog.

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Posted by nextcoonhunters on 07-11-2018 05:54 PM:

Re: I need a updated book

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Its not the judges call there is a black and white rule for it. You have to have aggression AND interference for him to be scratched. The interference has to be with the dogs ability to hunt and tree.

sorry I must have a out of date book mine doesn't show that last part. But on a two dog cast it is the judges call. And I guess you can ask for a cast vote but he'd have to vote with you to overturn it so back to the moh you would go. In fact on any cast that's the judges call so is a whole lists of these things. That's why some say the judge should be in control of the cast at all times. And if you don't like a call they made or didn't make take a cast vote. If interfering can only happen in hunting why not say can be scratched during hunt time that must be the only time that matters

Posted by joey on 07-11-2018 06:31 PM:

Re: Re: I need a updated book

quote:
Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
sorry I must have a out of date book mine doesn't show that last part. But on a two dog cast it is the judges call. And I guess you can ask for a cast vote but he'd have to vote with you to overturn it so back to the moh you would go. In fact on any cast that's the judges call so is a whole lists of these things. That's why some say the judge should be in control of the cast at all times. And if you don't like a call they made or didn't make take a cast vote. If interfering can only happen in hunting why not say can be scratched during hunt time that must be the only time that matters

They can be scratched at anytime during the time that the judge has the card, but it has to meet the criteria I listed. If the judge scratched that dog for doing that it would be overturned with a MOH that knows the rules. Its not the judges decision when there is a black and white rule for it.

On a side note lots of dogs are protective around the truck and house that are no problem in the woods, but the owner should know that. Its irresponsible to leave one like that tied out.

Posted by Dale Yates on 07-11-2018 08:18 PM:

Re: Re: Re: I need a updated book

quote:
Originally posted by joey
They can be scratched at anytime during the time that the judge has the card, but it has to meet the criteria I listed. If the judge scratched that dog for doing that it would be overturned with a MOH that knows the rules. Its not the judges decision when there is a black and white rule for it.

On a side note lots of dogs are protective around the truck and house that are no problem in the woods, but the owner should know that. Its irresponsible to leave one like that tied out.

DIFFERENT SCENARIO...TWO DOGS CUT, 10' FROM THE HANDLERS, DOG GROWLS AT OTHER DOG. AGGRESSOR GOES ON, OTHER DOG TURNS 180 AND COMES BACK. WAS HE INTERFERED WITH?

Posted by joey on 07-11-2018 09:08 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: I need a updated book

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Yates
DIFFERENT SCENARIO...TWO DOGS CUT, 10' FROM THE HANDLERS, DOG GROWLS AT OTHER DOG. AGGRESSOR GOES ON, OTHER DOG TURNS 180 AND COMES BACK. WAS HE INTERFERED WITH?

Yes and the dog could be scratched.

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 07-11-2018 11:48 PM:

okay I'll bite

quote:
Originally posted by joey
They can be scratched at anytime during the time that the judge has the card, but it has to meet the criteria I listed. If the judge scratched that dog for doing that it would be overturned with a MOH that knows the rules. Its not the judges decision when there is a black and white rule for it.

On a side note lots of dogs are protective around the truck and house that are no problem in the woods, but the owner should know that. Its irresponsible to leave one like that tied out.

so when the judge scratches the dog what do you do just tell him he can't do that and just go on and hunt while he is saying he can do that. Hmm might be a problem. If it's just you and him I am thinking you are going to see the moh

Posted by joey on 07-11-2018 11:53 PM:

Thats why I said it would be overturned by the MOH. If the judge scratched you on a 2 dog cast your scratched until you see the MOH.

Posted by Rip on 07-12-2018 01:48 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: I need a updated book

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Yates
DIFFERENT SCENARIO...TWO DOGS CUT, 10' FROM THE HANDLERS, DOG GROWLS AT OTHER DOG. AGGRESSOR GOES ON, OTHER DOG TURNS 180 AND COMES BACK. WAS HE INTERFERED WITH?

Yes that meets the definition of aggressive behavior and interference and that dog would be scratched if it is seen for "attempting to fight".

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Posted by ov_blues on 07-12-2018 06:18 PM:

3 dog cast, cut loose and all three dogs take off with Dog A behind and he stops and then growls around. Dog B is a little further and stops and just stands around. Dog C keeps on going hunting. Dog B's handler wants me to scratch Dog A. I tell him that I can't as there is no interference from Dag A that is keeping his dog from going on hunting just like Dog C did. Dog C ends up striking, the other two dogs go to him and they run and tree together with no problems whatsoever.

Next drop all 3 dogs are cut loose. Dog A gets to the front turns and physically blocks Dog C with aggressive behavior preventing Dog C from going hunting. Dog A is now scratched for aggressive behavior and interfering with Dog C's ability to go hunting.

If a dog fight would have started on drop 2 because of Dog A's aggressive behavior only Dog A would have been scratched because the aggressor could be determined as we all saw what was going on.

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