UKC Forums - Return Deadline Discussion

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 01-19-2018 12:08 PM:

Minimum set times will not ever work as intended. The hunting is much different in the regions of the country. While up north, folks patch hunt and love to call time out during the hunt and talk or whatever. Most call it moving, but seldom have I ever moved more than a mile when we do move from an area, but call it a needed thing. In the deep south, you can leave the club house at 8PM and be back before midnite in many cases. Block are large and never call time out. Hunting is different. This is better left alone and up to clubs, unless you want to install a minimum time to be gone from the club, but that doesn't s6op the huddle house hunter does it?

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Posted by yadkintar on 01-19-2018 12:16 PM:

Rock down here in July and August I dosent get dark until after 9:00 I set the deadline at 2:00 and the same guys that have trouble getting back then have the trouble getting back when draw is at 7:00 they are also the ones that always walk in 5 minutes before draw to enter.

Tar

Posted by Robert Johnson on 01-19-2018 01:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Rock down here in July and August I dosent get dark until after 9:00 I set the deadline at 2:00 and the same guys that have trouble getting back then have the trouble getting back when draw is at 7:00 they are also the ones that always walk in 5 minutes before draw to enter.

Tar

EXACTLY. Time doesn't matter. If they want to get back, they will find a way, no matter the way. Sure, at times something will happen, and its part of the game. Waiting on the same ones every hunt does get very old, especially when you watched them leave the club at 11 PM facing a 2 AM deadline, the complain when they don't make it back. My pity level doesn't blink for them.

Posted by yadkintar on 01-19-2018 01:28 PM:

Rock we used to make deadline when we hunted 3 hrs and no tracking collars just sayen !!

Tar

Posted by sleepy head on 01-19-2018 01:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
EXACTLY. Time doesn't matter. If they want to get back, they will find a way, no matter the way. Sure, at times something will happen, and its part of the game. Waiting on the same ones every hunt does get very old, especially when you watched them leave the club at 11 PM facing a 2 AM deadline, the complain when they don't make it back. My pity level doesn't blink for them.

The first part of your statement is nuts. Second part i would feel the same

Posted by harleydan1956 on 01-19-2018 01:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
Minimum set times will not ever work as intended. The hunting is much different in the regions of the country. While up north, folks patch hunt and love to call time out during the hunt and talk or whatever. Most call it moving, but seldom have I ever moved more than a mile when we do move from an area, but call it a needed thing. In the deep south, you can leave the club house at 8PM and be back before midnite in many cases. Block are large and never call time out. Hunting is different. This is better left alone and up to clubs, unless you want to install a minimum time to be gone from the club, but that doesn't s6op the huddle house hunter does it?

Why punish the people up north? Even if we do " move less than a mile", consider walking to the truck and moving. 20 minutes max, right? Do that 4 times, there is over an hour. If you all came up and hunted, the last thing you'll want to do is hunt the same 100 acre patch all night. And if you have a few that sit around talking, then it is them, not the hunters that need it.
If UKC would set a minimum hours, that does not mean the casts will stay out. Many times we've gone back long before the deadline. My personal club gives 6 hours, even though most never drive over 45 minutes. If the club has a guide that sits around talking and goofing off.... Doesn't the club assign guides just as they assign judges? Then don't allow them to guide. That problem is solved.
I personally set up 6 drops, 4 woods 35-40 minutes from the club and 2 on the way back to the club. I usually guide out of 4 different clubs. If a dog gets lost or way out of pocket, I can stay and help find it, and not leave them alone just so I can make deadline.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-19-2018 02:01 PM:

Rock, that is why you ask them what time they need for a deadline. If they don't make it then it is their own fault.

Posted by wjoey on 01-19-2018 02:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Rock, that is why you ask them what time they need for a deadline. If they don't make it then it is their own fault.

Rock is more than fair with his deadlines he gives.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 01-19-2018 02:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Rock, that is why you ask them what time they need for a deadline. If they don't make it then it is their own fault.

I always have Richard, in every case. One past major event that I worked, the cast members and guides were asked exactly that question. What deadline do you need to get back? They gave me a deadline that was by all accounts unreasonable, in saying they could be back by 3 am. It was 11:30 - 12 MN then. This was a second round for the night. I added a few times in my head and as MOH said NO, we'll make the deadline 4 am. All guides said they were going only 15 minutes from the club house. They jump in their trucks and are gone inside of 5 mintues from that point. ( 2 cast). One cast is back in plenty of time, somewhere around 2:50 am - 3:00 am, which would have put them back inside the time they requested. The last cast, of the 3 dogs in it, the two hounds that didn't win came back in at 3:52 am, inside the set deadline. Unfortunately, the winner makes it back around 4:15 am and was scratched. Immeadiately, I am a very bad MOH, and phone calls were blaring out to the powers that be etc..., but remember I added an hour to what all of them were asking for. Do I feel bad for them? Maybe, but rules are rules, and this is one that needs no changes. Common sense is all that is needed, and an ability to look at a clock and know how far you must go.

AS FOR PUNISHING ANYONE UP NORTH, I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE YOU THINK I SAID LETS DO THAT BUT YOU ARE WRONG!!!

Why I commented is beyond me, because it matters not.

Posted by yadkintar on 01-19-2018 02:54 PM:

I don't know how you could be any more flexible on giving people a chance to make deadline you can call time out between trees ect ect. As far as guys going hunting late after draw we all know what that is about giving the coons time to get on their buckets. 3 hr hunts we had no buckets we had no tracking or shocking collars we hunted the whole time in the same spot because our dogs didn't need a mile to tree one stinking kitten coon and we made our dogs mind and we still made deadline.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-19-2018 03:03 PM:

What in the world does 3 hr hunts more than 20 yrs ago have to do with a discussion of deadlines today?
Rock if you ask a man what deadline he wants and then he doesn't make it, then he doesn't have a complaint. You should have complained about him taking so long to get back. It is not your fault if he can't teach/train his dog to handle. And I would have told him that.

Posted by yadkintar on 01-19-2018 03:15 PM:

Richard we made the same deadline hunting 3 hrs that they can't seem to make today hunting 2 hrs.

But our dogs weren't no good so they say lol.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-19-2018 03:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Richard,
But our dogs weren't no good so they say lol.
Tar

Who is "they"? I don't think that I have heard/seen anyone saying the hounds of 30 yrs ago "weren't no good".

Posted by sleepy head on 01-19-2018 03:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Richard we made the same deadline hunting 3 hrs that they can't seem to make today hunting 2 hrs.

But our dogs weren't no good so they say lol.

Tar

Tar your always saying we should change the rules to fit today's dogs but not set deadlines to fit the rules and today's dogs?

Posted by yadkintar on 01-19-2018 03:41 PM:

Curtis nobody and I mean nobody wants to set in a club house till 6:00 in the morning waiting on sombody to catch their idiot. Tell you the life of a bench judge and moh show is a 5:00 so you get there at 3:00 sighn everybody up judge the show the show people want their win slips so they can go home the hunt people are trying to enter you draw out at 7:00 or 8:00 then you set there buy your self till 2:00 because sombody did not do any good and they are home in the fart sack while you are setting there waiting on them you get home at 4:00 your weekend is shot usually for a bowl of stew because they give you a guilt trip that the club is broke try 30 yrs of that see how you feel about it I love the sport but we need to share the love maaaaaan !!

Tar

Posted by sleepy head on 01-19-2018 03:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Curtis nobody and I mean nobody wants to set in a club house till 6:00 in the morning waiting on sombody to catch their idiot. Tell you the life of a bench judge and moh show is a 5:00 so you get there at 3:00 sighn everybody up judge the show the show people want their win slips so they can go home the hunt people are trying to enter you draw out at 7:00 or 8:00 then you set there buy your self till 2:00 because sombody did not do any good and they are home in the fart sack while you are setting there waiting on them you get home at 4:00 your weekend is shot usually for a bowl of stew because they give you a guilt trip that the club is broke try 30 yrs of that see how you feel about it I love the sport but we need to share the love maaaaaan !!

Tar

You almost brought tears to my eyes but i was able to get a hold of myself

Posted by Pat Bizich on 01-19-2018 03:46 PM:

You know ,no matter what time you set the deadline you always have one cast that pushes it.
They come dragging in 5 minutes just before deadline no matter how late it is set.

A question was asked so..............
Lets look at this logically.

8:00 sign in close time .Got to give time for drawing cast assembly of casts.
So lets say everyone is out by 8 :30 Lets start there.
5 hours would be a 1:30 deadline.

Allowing each cast 1 hour drive time from club to and from the woods. I know I know .Many don't drive that far. But just in case of what ever. Lets give them an hour.
That is 2 hours.
Give them another 1 hour between dumps to drive and walking out of the woods after calling time outs at trees .

The 2 hours hunt time.

5 hours sounds ideal .Whoa .I said Ideal. What about if someone looses a dog and the 1 hour needs to be used on that dog.

Looking at it this way 6 hours is probably the safe minimum .
So logically a 2:30 deadline should be adequate.
And we will still get those 5 minute before deadline cast. SIGH!!

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Posted by trkrmsy on 01-19-2018 03:47 PM:

I've been to several hunts around my area that didn't allow enough time to drive to their guides hunting spots and back and hunt any time at all.
It's rough walking here that takes more time also. Not everyone has flat areas full of coon. It usually takes at least 4 hours plus drive time.

I would like to see at least a 5 hour minimum deadline.

Posted by yadkintar on 01-19-2018 03:57 PM:

8:00 to 2:00 is 6hrs.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-19-2018 04:17 PM:

quote:
[i]I would like to see at least a 5 hour minimum deadline. [/B]

That is something that you need to take up with the MOH/HD.

Posted by JEstep on 01-19-2018 04:41 PM:

Guides and MOH/Hunt Director working together can solve any issues majority of time. I have guided and been rushed for multiple reasons, could be a dog getting out of pocket or even coon moving and I am want to keep dropping and moving. As a guide in my responsibility to know my drops and know if I need to recast or move. I was pushed on a deadline at Autumn Oaks and we were just minutes away and deadline was 5:00 and we were in coon but a dog got out of pocket. When ask by a MOH a guide needs to think thru his answer. Also as a MOH I have tried to be fair in setting return time. I don't think there can be a general rule of thumb, it takes common sense with guides/MOH/club working together. Nothing drives me more crazy than finding out the card was just thrown away and cast went home because of dead cast. I do think a dead cast should be allowed to be reported. There is one club in my area always makes the deadline far to early and when I guide I am pushed but I plan for that in my drops. Again, common sense!

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-19-2018 04:47 PM:

Who says that a dead cast can't be reported to MOH/HD by cell phone? I didn't realize there was a rule forbidding this. And what would the consequences be, scratching the dead cast?

Posted by JEstep on 01-19-2018 04:53 PM:

Many times in local hunts that I MOH I know who the guides will be before I get to the hunt and I know there drops before they sign up. With that being said I can begin to make a decision on deadline just from information I know. As a handler I also know who I draw and know if we are going to be pushed for time or not. If I am MOH at a club and don't know guides I will always talk with club contact on who guides should be. MOH/Guide/Club working together will solve majority of issues.

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