UKC Forums - Here is one I need Your Opinion on!!

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-- Here is one I need Your Opinion on!! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928498342)

Posted by Rip on 01-14-2018 04:30 PM:

Re: UKC

quote:
Originally posted by rghnd123
In UKC it's not 100 strike except on the first drop. Unless all the dogs are wadded up together. Just the other KC has more loners. Someone is going to take the money home, how it works. You hear people down a dog for winning on minus. Go take the money if you can win with plus every time.

Yes it is with at least one or two casts per hunt and that's all it takes to get a big score. They pack together or there is only two something along those lines and that makes a huge difference in points available. 225 for first and first vs 125 for first and first. That alone is 100 points per coon difference not counting not having to run the 5 when all dogs are treed, time outs with split trees and time outs for different drops.

I have hunted plenty of UKC hunts where we got every dog off the same tree all night.

I never have had that happen in a PKC hunt (and it is happening less in UKC now than it used to because there is cross over but UKC is where the least experienced handlers and hounds start out and that makes it much more likely to have a bunch of dogs that pack).

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Posted by novicane65 on 01-14-2018 06:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ctreeingsob
I think u might have it backwards in the pkc is we’re ever one wonts to circle everything and no one wonts to take there minuse I’ve seen these so called pro judges in these pro hunts actually circle a tiny hole that u can barley stick three fingers in on a tree that was blowed over and dog was treed in the top of the tree pretty much barking straight up in the air

Not around here and definitely not at super stakes or the world hunt in PKC. If it's not a den or a nest, it gets minused. I've spectated enough UKC casts to know I don't want to or have any intention of hunting them. And truth be told there's a lot less arguments over there too. Around here there's not much minus handed out in UKC and them same in quite a few other places in the country too.

Posted by richard turner on 01-14-2018 07:35 PM:

One thing ukc has that Pkc don’t is a lot of bench champs

Posted by thomasg on 01-14-2018 07:42 PM:

UNION S.C. Hunt Director Brad Durham reports all went very smooth with no questions or drama .read u.kc. post on major events last year . LOL

Posted by ole hoss on 01-14-2018 07:46 PM:

Re: ,

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Richard, I think it is important to understand the differences, Why, you might ask?
We breed to different dogs for different reason. If I breed to a dog it is because I saw something with my own eyes, I wanted from the genetics in a hound. Hoping to get some.
We have way too many people that have never seen a hound or seen any brothers, sisters or kissing cousins to the hound. Breed because of what it won, being advertised in a pretty picture. I don't think that is good for the future of our hounds. It the same with all KC's. This picture with a dog that won a truck or that picture with a dog that won a table full of trophies. That is great for the people involved and they should be congratulated and they should cherish the moment they worked hard to achieve. That on the other hand is not a reason to breed to a hound. It is a reason to investigate the genetics behind the hound as there might be something there. Just not the reason for getting caught up in the moment and breed. An understanding of the rules and conditions that won the truck or won the trophies, helps keep the hype down.

Richard you have been around. If you were just evaluating the winnings of a dog. Do you put more stock in one kennel club over another having a winner that would operate like you want one to.

Very good point. I for one know that the Walker line is going backwards and this is the reason why in my opinion.

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Posted by Roy Grant on 01-14-2018 07:57 PM:

I think it was Timothy Ball, said it is better to breed to the average dog of a good litter, than the good dog of an average litter. Hoss you are exactly correct.

Posted by yadkintar on 01-14-2018 08:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Roy Grant
I think it was Timothy Ball, said it is better to breed to the average dog of a good litter, than the good dog of an average litter. Hoss you are exactly correct.

You and ole hoss might be surprised to find out there are still a lot of us original OG'S west side cripples out there that still train , hunt and breed dogs that can compete with anybodys dog anywhere we just got to old , fat , and tired of listening of the young ones tell us we don't know chit about a dog so we stay home !!

We worked harder at building the bloodlines of the dogs of today than the younger bunch has at maintaining it that's the problem and that's a fact jack lol !!

Tar

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 01-14-2018 09:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
You and ole hoss might be surprised to find out there are still a lot of us original OG'S west side cripples out there that still train , hunt and breed dogs that can compete with anybodys dog anywhere we just got to old , fat , and tired of listening of the young ones tell us we don't know chit about a dog so we stay home !!

We worked harder at building the bloodlines of the dogs of today than the younger bunch has at maintaining it that's the problem and that's a fact jack lol !!
Tar

That’s 100% Tru.

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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 01-14-2018 10:35 PM:

Re: Re: ,

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
The days of hunting with a stud before you breed your female to him are gone.

Why is that? I advertise “Come See For Your Self” and Not One Female owner set up a hunt with any of my advertised studs before or after they bred their female!

Posted by Cry Tough Blues on 01-14-2018 10:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
So apple's to oranges huh, why are we trying to compare the two?

There is no comparison , I’ll go for the cash every time. The superstakes program is one of the best programs ever. For anyone pushing a hound in competition hunts it’s a no brainer.

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Posted by yadkintar on 01-14-2018 11:18 PM:

Yea them $250 ball caps are nice that's the most I ever got lol.

Tar

Posted by Bob Hennessey on 01-15-2018 04:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by richard turner
One thing ukc has that Pkc don’t is a lot of bench champs

I believe this is because most UKC hunts are on Saturdays and many UKC hunters bring their wives and kids who like to complete also, whereas most small PKC hunts are during the week and the larger ones are elimination hunts are 2 or 3 days.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 01-15-2018 03:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bob Hennessey
I believe this is because most UKC hunts are on Saturdays and many UKC hunters bring their wives and kids who like to complete also, whereas most small PKC hunts are during the week and the larger ones are elimination hunts are 2 or 3 days.

I believe it is because PKC doesn't have bench shows

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Posted by morgan branch on 01-15-2018 05:04 PM:

Different set of rules , different type of hound... You breed and hunt for what the purpose of the dog is. Plain and simple.. We breed to match the rules and give us our best advantage at whatever arena we will be playing in. If it was truly about treeing number of coons we would all be hunting hard hunting silent trailing hounds that hunt strictly off the wind not off a trail... Where is the coon now compared to where the coon has been and is going. If the hides ever hit 35$ again you will see a different style of hound come back into the picture. It is proven there is no longer any money in hides,so we breed to compete in the different avenues like the money hunts or the recognition of our stud or dam. If hides go back up that high we will all be hunting fiests and not care what they tree as long as they tree a lot and that we load the gun each and every time and don't walk past 5 to get to 1. It is all about cause and effect, marketing and advances in technology. If we didn't have the tracking ability that we have today would we be hunting the type of dogs that go a mile or better at each drop? Nope cause after the 3rd night of not being able to find them before work the next day and you wasted all night hunting a dog instead of hunting coons you would cull him or her. For each and every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. For every time we gain in one aspect we will suffer in some other dept. Its just nature.. All registries have their plusses and minuses and to get into a p*ssing match over who is more honest or who has better dogs or handlers is plain stupidity. It is al based off personal experiences. Opinions are like hind ends we all have one. I personally hunt them all and can win in any of them on any given night but on the same note I can lose just as easy.. I do like the every cast has winner that *kc has but also feel that if a dog makes over a certain amount of mistakes he should not be a winner if my hound is cut in a section of woods that there are not coon or whatever the reason He best go find one or he best have a score of 0 period. The rest is mediocrity. It doesn't always work that way but that is what I strive for in a hound. It all comes back to the question what are you going to use the dog for?? Put hides in the freezer? Win pickups? Win world hunts? Be a dominant stud that betters the breed in certain aspects? Be for strictly pleasure hunting enjoyment? Or be your pet? We breed for what we need or want for our own individual needs. It's just nature.

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Posted by gpent24 on 01-15-2018 05:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
Even if these 2 hunts were back to back weekends and there'd be some serious score differences. From my experience hunting in PKC, the guys that hunt UKC get irate if you vote to minus the tree. Verses PKC guys care but not near as much. So a lot of the trees that get circled in UKC would be minused in PKC. If the tree doesn't have a hole, or a nest its minuses in PKC. And the UKC guys try to argue that a coon could be hiding up there in a crotch, or on the leafy bundle on that limb. It's pretty easy to understand, PKC guys tend to be on a very strict judgement vs UKC.

And to throw a twist on this, if you hunted the same dogs in both registries on the same night would the scores be different?

lol my experience was vastly different than this. I drew a very well known judge that judges pro hunts and the big pkc hunts. He judged in the ukc winter classic last year and he was circling EVERYTHING. He pulled out an old timer trick by getting a guy to shine a big knot on the tree from the side so the shadow made it look like a hole lol. One of the wildest things I've ever seen. I got voted down 3 to 1 to circle it. My dog was on the tree along with all their dogs and I voted it to slick it lol. So it's not a pkc ukc thing to me.

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Posted by DwayneWhite on 01-15-2018 05:59 PM:

Re: Here is one I need Your Opinion on!!

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Looking at some results of one of them Pro Hunts last night held in UNION SC. Not saying they are good dogs but saying the owners thinks to to pay high entry fees. There were 16 cast and I think only two cast came in with over 200 points and they weren't much over that.

I guess you can call this a two part opinion.

In a month when the UKC SETWD hunt rolls to town will the scores be doubt the same. LOW with an the average winner at 125 to 150 points. Or are they going to be 500 and 600 points for the cast winners. Maybe higher.

If you say higher, whats your opinion why? Dog power, UKC Guides have better spots to hunt. Calling time out and moving to the next bucket. There has to be a factual reason and not an opinion on this. I sure don't have a crystal ball but I would be willing to bet the scores in a month will be a lot better.

Does anyone think the facts as to why, should concern you. I do because the winner get publicity and that publicity brings attention to breeding. If you understand the foundation of coon hunting and what is going on. You will understand why the house is cracking.

One thing I have noticed myself by hunting all registries. UKC hunters do not like to take minus lol

Posted by yadkintar on 01-15-2018 06:08 PM:

Most serious ukc hunters don't have to take minus because they train their dogs to tree coons because they know there is no plan b like in the $$$ hunts where you got have a winner even if it's like I saw one time with 900 minus bad thing about it the dogs he beat had more minus than that and he is a stud dog now lmbo !!

Tar

Posted by ole hoss on 01-15-2018 06:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
You and ole hoss might be surprised to find out there are still a lot of us original OG'S west side cripples out there that still train , hunt and breed dogs that can compete with anybodys dog anywhere we just got to old , fat , and tired of listening of the young ones tell us we don't know chit about a dog so we stay home !!

We worked harder at building the bloodlines of the dogs of today than the younger bunch has at maintaining it that's the problem and that's a fact jack lol !!

Tar

I would not be taking credit for most of the bloodline I've seen today!! One word best describes them!! HEARTLESS

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Posted by yadkintar on 01-15-2018 07:02 PM:

You must be talking about just the ones you have hunted with that's been brought to town. I got an 11 yr old Grntch that was born in my back yard one eyed and no teeth that in my country will gut you and me and anybody else you bring and her 5 yr old niece is just as bad but they don't pass up coons to do it come see for yourself.

Tar

They got to have heart or I won't feed them.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 01-15-2018 09:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Most serious ukc hunters don't have to take minus because they train their dogs to tree coons because they know there is no plan b like in the $$$ hunts where you got have a winner even if it's like I saw one time with 900 minus bad thing about it the dogs he beat had more minus than that and he is a stud dog now lmbo !!

Tar

Thats one of the dumbest things you have ever typed, and thats saying something

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Posted by yadkintar on 01-15-2018 09:33 PM:

What's dumb about it josh you want me to bump his stud add up to the top so you know who he is. You ever won $$$ with minus I bet yes and you took it too !! The rules state in ukc you must have plus points there is no plan b the year bozz won the world hunt there was two dogs in that final cast that didn't have a plus point all week and they didn't in that final cast either just set out there in your shed and make squallers and giggle leave the hunting up to sombody that knows what they are doing lmbo.

Tar

Posted by Skankhunt42 on 01-15-2018 09:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Thats one of the dumbest things you have ever typed, and thats saying something

Best post ever Josh for President,!

Posted by yadkintar on 01-15-2018 09:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Skankhunt42
Best post ever Josh for President,!

Oh boy two on one I love a challenge lol.

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 01-15-2018 09:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
What's dumb about it josh you want me to bump his stud add up to the top so you know who he is. You ever won $$$ with minus I bet yes and you took it too !! The rules state in ukc you must have plus points there is no plan b the year bozz won the world hunt there was two dogs in that final cast that didn't have a plus point all week and they didn't in that final cast either just set out there in your shed and make squallers and giggle leave the hunting up to sombody that knows what they are doing lmbo.

Tar

Best Post Ever!

Posted by N Williams on 01-15-2018 11:21 PM:

You boys go get a dog. Win 20k with it and come back and tell us how much you won without treeing coons. You might have better luck than we did. We won some pocket change without treeing coons.

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