UKC Forums - Poor breeding = Poor results

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-- Poor breeding = Poor results (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928482908)

Posted by Wayne Valentino on 06-01-2017 04:11 PM:

recently had a conversation with a dear friend of mine who is a very successful Walker dog man. Winning BIG hunts and lots of cash in various KC's. What he breeds and trains for today is not what he bred for 30 years ago. Today he breeds to please the scorecard. 30 years ago he bred to please the coonhunter in the winter with emphasis on increasing track speed while maintaining strong treeing instincts. I would not want one of his dogs today. Bluetick guys are more coonhunters than competition hunters and don't breed to please scorecards. Some are trying to do it, they are few in my book. IMHO, I don't want dead loners that are socially dysfunctional, a bit grouchy at trees, that horse race 500 yards into the timber trying to create separation from their cast mates before they even start looking for a coon. That is not coonhunting. Blues that hunt from the second they are turned loose, have the proper amount of independence, increased speed and have nose power to tree February coon, not just July kittens is what I see Blue Guys want, and if competition wins fall into the mix then fantastic. To win big you gotta breed to please the scorecard, to those who want that go for all the gusto and achieve your goals !! I wish you well and much success.

__________________
Fan of the of the Bragg and Vaughn Blues !! TREE OLD HUSSLER in Memory of DOC Householder... Rest in Peace Rev. Kenneth Adkins my dear friend !! Home Will's Creek Savage Sioux-Zee!!
Yeah, I competition hunt !! All Fall and Winter long.. My Blues compete with the local coon.. My Blues win a ton !!! We use and recommend MOONSHINER LIGHTS, Peggs , Ok.

Posted by Hogan on 06-01-2017 04:13 PM:

A title doesn't mean a dog turned out either. Same as not having a title doesn't mean its garbage. How many dogs get back burnered because your pushing a different dog. doesn't mean they're not a good dog you can only campaign one or two at a time especially if your trying to push them to grand not just stopping at nitech. Also if you're trying to sell pups its not always that easy to put them all in comp. hunters hands. Sometimes its hard to even get them all in hunting hands. just my opinion

__________________
Lee Hogan 715-213-3732
Hogan's Kennels

Blueticks

NITECH CCH WCH GRFCH GRCH(4)'PR'Hogan's Naughty (SidxWhiskey)
GRFCH WCH CGRCH GRNITECH GRCHHOF'Psyco Blu Spyder HTX(SidxWhiskey)
NITECH GRFCH(3) GRWCH GRCH(3)'PR'Hogan's Willy HTX (LincolnxDiva)
GRNITECH GRFCH(2) GRWCHHOF GRCH(5)'PR'Hogan's Kujo HTX (YodelerxJazz)
FCH WCH CCH GRCH'PR'Hogan's Gemba (YodelerxJazz)
GRWCH GRFCH GRNITECH(3) GRCH'PR'Hogan's Curly HTX(PiazonxHoneyBee)
CCH NITECH GRFCH(3) GRWCH(3) GRCHHOF'PR'Hogan's Trouble (KujoxNaughty)
FCH GRCH'PR'Hogan's Zeus (CashxSophie)
WCH CCH FCH GRCH(2)'PR'Hogan's Sam (WillyxNaughty)
GRFCH GRCH(2)'PR'Hogan's Maize (WillyxNaughty)
CH CCH'PR'Hogan's Sage (WillyxNaughty)

Holstein-

GRFCH(4) GRWCH GRCH(2)'PR'Hogan's Mouse (TjxHolly)
FCH GRWCH GRCH'PR'Hogan's Jt (TjxHolly)

Gone but not forgotten.
CGRCH GRWCH(4) GRNITECH(3) GRFCHHOF GRCHHOF'PR'Hogan's Ruby HTX4(HankxJazz)
1st Ever GRFCHHOF!
2020 Autumn Oaks National Grandnite Champion Bluetick, Grand 16 Finalist and BBOA & BBCHA High scoring bluetick female.
High scoring bluetick 2020 NRCA Days
GRWCH GRNITECH GRCH'PR'Hogans Jazz HTX2 (MosexGrace)
GRNITECH GRFCH GRCH GRWCH'PR'Hogans Jimbo (HankxJazz)- Youngest Quad of any breed
FCH GRWCH GRCH'PR'Hogan's Sadie(HankxJazz)
GRFCH GRCH GRWCH'PR'Hogan's Bo (HankxJazz)
WCH GRCH'PR'Hogan's Patches HTX (YodelerxJazz)
GRFCH(4)GRWCH(4)GRCH(4)'PR'Hogan's TJ
NITECH GRFCH GRWCH GRCH'PR' Hogan's Ticket HTX
GRFCH GRWCH GRCH'PR'Hogans Timber (LincolnxDiva)
'PR'Hogans Dixie
GRCH 'PR' Hogans Boomer (WallyxWeaver)
CH'PR'Hogans Dot(LeadxSister)
WCH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' KG Acres BIG Wally(TimberxSugar)

Posted by pamjohnson on 06-01-2017 05:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SoonerBeBlue
Pam Johnson, there is a reason that some dogs win more than others and it's usually because they have more ability. Not just a male that has ability but a female too. Your chances for getting better quality is greater when both dogs have the right ability. Why would anyone want to breed a quality female to a dud male dog or vise versa. It cost the same to raise higher probability pups as it does the well maybe's.

we are on the same page on breeding quality on the top n bottom. maybe we wouldn't consider the same dogs quality idk but when someone is breeding they may want to look at more than just a title to be successful.

Posted by 8hawg on 06-01-2017 06:32 PM:

The reason I believe you see lower percentage numbers on the blueticks reproducers list is because fewer people are breeding to the hounds on the list, particularly the ones towards the top. Why? , I believe it's because most want to breed to there own hound, or one out of "their" stuff. The Performance Program I believe has a lot to do with it also (Lot more Studs to choose from). Basically in math terms the numbers on blueticks breeding is more spread out. This keeps the top ten numbers down. I would say 15 to 20 years ago Tucker's Boomer would have had 800 plus pups as an example. Probably a more accurate way to gauge a Stud would be to include the Performance info along with Top 10 and Personal experience. I don't think we are going backwards. Folks just spreading it around more. JMO

__________________
CHRIS BRINER
ROBINSON, IL

Posted by Vic Stoll on 06-01-2017 06:47 PM:

Re: speaking of doing the math

quote:
Originally posted by everett
If we are truly interested in developing a blue hide that can really get it done on the big stage's then find the few we have in our breed and put them together, it would be a great place to start, otherwise it's a long row with a short paddle.......Gerald

Aside from the fact it is impossible to put an actual number to the percentage of any Stud dogs offspring entered in hunts, I have come to find there is a vast difference in the human interpretation of what "the big stage" is. It all begins to regress very quickly from there.

Long story short, the percentages listed are the best to be found in each breed by the only common means we have to compare. What any individual chooses to take & use from those is at their discretion.

Even the like minded folks in the Blue dog breed that agree on what a big stage truly is, & the style of hound it takes to consistently win on that stage, cannot agree on individuals to cross with one another based on previous bias relative to strain, color, etc.

We're down to the pieces of the dead horse, & still where we always have been. Makes for great message board conversation, but is still pretty much meaningless pie in the sky.

I tip my hat to all the men & women working and hunting as hard as they can towards their goals of producing the style of hound to fulfill their vision. I wish you all nothing but the best!

__________________
Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

Posted by Wayne Valentino on 06-01-2017 06:48 PM:

Re: I

[B]recently had a conversation with a dear friend of mine who is a very successful Walker dog man. Winning BIG hunts and lots of cash in various KC's. What he breeds and trains for today is not what he bred for 30 years ago. Today he breeds to please the scorecard. 30 years ago he bred to please the coonhunter in the winter with emphasis on increasing track speed while maintaining strong treeing instincts. I would not want one of his dogs today. Bluetick guys are more coonhunters than competition hunters and don't breed to please scorecards. Some are trying to do it, they are few in my book. IMHO, I don't want dead loners that are socially dysfunctional, a bit grouchy at trees, that horse race 500 yards into the timber trying to create separation from their cast mates before they even start looking for a coon. That is not coonhunting. Blues that hunt from the second they are turned loose, have the proper amount of independence, increased speed and have nose power to tree February coon, not just July kittens is what I see Blue Guys want, and if competition wins fall into the mix then fantastic. To win big you gotta breed to please the scorecard, to those who want that go for all the gusto and achieve your goals !! I wish you well and much success.

I will say this in addition to these statements. The Bluetick with nose and speed that consistently trees behind, beside and in front of the horse racers can consistently beat them if turned loose in a reasonable coon population. I do not condone breeding automatic strike dogs that are dead loners to always have the 100 / 125 like some others have done. A good fast Bluedog can compete on the breeds merits and strong points in any hunt.

Posted by Jm265 on 06-01-2017 07:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SoonerBeBlue
I remember when people breed their best coonhound to the best coonhound no matter what breed it was. those hide hunters wanted results that paid off. not many true houndsmen or coondogs left in this old world. i'm not a competition hunter but if I were I would be looking elsewhere for something to breed my female to.

IF YOU HAD A TOP FEMALE WHAT STUD WOULD YOU USE ON HER?

Posted by SoonerBeBlue on 06-02-2017 01:18 AM:

Jm265, I don't have a clue but would want to hunt with them.

__________________
"I WON'T TOLERATE RUDE BEHAVIOR IN A GROWN MAN"

Hound I currently have in training:
Mountain Fork Blue Mable

Posted by novicane65 on 06-02-2017 02:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark V.
So who do we breed to? Not being a smart ass I really want to know Kaskaskia River Blue Dizzie( Davis's White river salin Sadie X Bodatious) $1600? in pkc,3rd in the nation in the purina race ,1st in the blue tick breed 2years in a row, won 2 RQE qualified for the world 7years straight Won many GR.NT.Casts. Please give me your opion?

I'd be breeding her to paizon

Posted by blueticker on 06-02-2017 04:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark V.
So who do we breed to? Not being a smart ass I really want to know Kaskaskia River Blue Dizzie( Davis's White river salin Sadie X Bodatious) $1600? in pkc,3rd in the nation in the purina race ,1st in the blue tick breed 2years in a row, won 2 RQE qualified for the world 7years straight Won many GR.NT.Casts. Please give me your opion?

I would call Duane Swofford and go hunting with Indian Creek Boomer. If you don't like what you see don't breed to him. Boomer is a top end hound on both ends with all the bells & whistles.

__________________
Home Of:
Gr Nt Ch, Ch Natural Smokey River Irene a coondog (Mailes Bob X Nt Ch Utchman Blue Two)
Gr Nt Ch Natural Smokey River Flo UKC Top 20 placing 15th UKC World 2011, top 100 2014 (Rebel x Mailes Lil)

The Hounds I Enjoyed Hunting:
Dual Gr Natural Smokey River Rebel, A buddy of mine
Gr. Nt Natural Blue Echo ( Gr Nt Quail Ck Jimmy X Nt Ch Natural Blue Bell)
Gr Nt Smokey River Chief's Joe (JBS Chief X Gr Nt Jeans Ruby)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Natural Smokey River Lucy (Chief's Joe X Muggins)
And Many More

Posted by hat creek mac on 06-02-2017 09:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SoonerBeBlue
Pam Johnson, there is a reason that some dogs win more than others and it's usually because they have more ability. Not just a male that has ability but a female too. Your chances for getting better quality is greater when both dogs have the right ability. Why would anyone want to breed a quality female to a dud male dog or vise versa. It cost the same to raise higher probability pups as it does the well maybe's.

my problem with this train of thought is simple...

HOW did the dog win?
Did he have a cheating handler?
Was he an automatic strike dog that rattles his head all night?
Is he mean as a snake and runs everything else off the tree?

Just because a dog has won in the hunts, does not make it superior!!!

I like winners as much as anyone, but I want to know that they won it HONEST and not through a dishonest handler that would cheat a small child just to win a cast!

Posted by msinc on 06-03-2017 06:56 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
I'd be breeding her to paizon

He already did....and I am lucky enough to have one. I am very happy with him and he is doing a good job, but not finished yet. This particular puppy was a slow starter, but I didn't push him and I am glad I didn't.
Should have him in some hunts this year.

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
my problem with this train of thought is simple...

HOW did the dog win?
Did he have a cheating handler?
Was he an automatic strike dog that rattles his head all night?
Is he mean as a snake and runs everything else off the tree?

Just because a dog has won in the hunts, does not make it superior!!!

I like winners and much as anyone, but I want to know that they won it HONEST and not through a dishonest handler that would cheat a small child just to win a cast!

I agree, and I will say that if I just wanted a walker and that hunting style I'd go buy one. I hunt blue dogs because I want a blue dog. I don't necessarily believe we need to turn our blueticks into a ticked blue walker. They have reached pretty far and it has paid off in some respects and if that type dog and the way they hunt is what you want then I guess okay...
Looking back at the best dogs I have seen in my lifetime, I mean the kind any of us would want to own, they all had two common denominators, and no they are not "deep" and "alone" they are consistent and not making mistakes. By consistent I mean a dog you can take anywhere and the dog hunts the same, swamps to mountains, cornfields to deep woods...you know what to expect. Not making any mistakes is easy to understand...you might not win every hunt, but you will win plenty and do it with a dog that most reasonable people would love to own and hunt. By no means is it just winning, I too like a winner...but isn't it better to have a dog that you really want to take out and hunt??? Some guys will read this and say, "well that dog is just a mediocre hound", maybe so compared to some flashy hotshot that can put on a show. For me, I want the dog that I know what he is going to do and if there are any mistakes to be made in a nite hunt I'd rather make them myself...that's the dog I want.

Posted by Treedoggmafia on 06-03-2017 10:51 AM:

I don't believe the bluetick breed has the drive to win hunts....yes there's some but not like other breeds....breeding to win hunts don't mean breeding to make ticked up walkers....I don't like a babbler but I want a FAST honest strike dog.....i want a dog that can fly in a track not a dog I can listen to on same track all night long.....I want a 1 bark tree dog that hits trees like a freight train and has a coon....not a dog that I can listen to there pretty bawl for 5 minutes checking themselves before they tree.."if" they tree!

It don't matter if you have a litter of pups out of winners AND on the reproducers list with many dogs in there ped on the reproducers list.....unless your part of a clique or have somebody's favorite dog in the ped many times...

The dogs that tell me the most are the ones owned by no named people or people that operate with out needing help...

Blueticks seem to be like there owners....they cover everybody most the time....gotta pack together and are extremly jealous....

I understand how line breeding works but what bluetick out there was that much of a winner that anybody won't there traits locked in 2,3,4 or 5 times??

I think there's some dogs out there that have reproduced well...also believe many coulda produced better if the owners woulda looked outside the box a little more....

There's definantly several winning males out there right now...females also but I believe the females should be pushed in more hunts...seems everybody finishes em to grand and says there to valuable to hunt or ntch and tell everybody they got nothing to prove to you...that's great glad your proud but just cause they've proved something to you don't mean they've proved anything to me....

I don't breed for pedigree,looks or anything at all other than style! I want a certain style of dog and that's the only reason I breed dogs....

To many people just breeding for $ or because a dog has your old world beater in its ped 5 generations back...

Just my opinions and that don't mean everybody or my opinions are the only one that matters....I'm open minded and allways looking for excuses to move forward and not much for making em to go back words or sit at idle for 20 years!

Posted by Drummerblue2 on 06-03-2017 09:38 PM:

Well put

Treedoggmafia I totally agree the blue hound breed is full of breeders trying to preserve sertan blood lines probably the best thing could be done is let some of it die and step outside the box just my opinion

__________________
Jason henson

Posted by BIG$BLUES on 06-04-2017 05:24 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by hat creek mac
my problem with this train of thought is simple...

HOW did the dog win?
Did he have a cheating handler?
Was he an automatic strike dog that rattles his head all night?
Is he mean as a snake and runs everything else off the tree?

Just because a dog has won in the hunts, does not make it superior!!!

I like winners and much as anyone, but I want to know that they won it HONEST and not through a dishonest handler that would cheat a small child just to win a cast!

Cheating a kid is as low as a man can go!!

__________________
Travis Duvall owned and operated

NTCH DUVALL'S BIG MONEY SLIDDER

Home of those with drive!
Speak the truth it will set you free.

Posted by cwbluebio on 06-04-2017 10:36 PM:

How many ways can a person disagree with just about everything posted on here? Most of you would consider me a member of a clique because the hounds I hunt,breed, feed and have had the most luck with in coon hunting, competition and reproduction were basically line bred (or closer)-males and females.

Mostly what I hear from these comments are inexperience or just plain ignorance. What is wrong with the Bluetick breed? Have you got a mirror? Just because you have been unsuccessful do not put all the blame on someone else.

I know what I want. I know what I have had. I pray that I can recognize the talent and develop it when I get my hands on it. I firmly believe what I'm after will stack up against anything from any breed. Having said that-I don't want an idiot, when the dog trees it has a coon (trees don't count, coons do), not ill, not automatic and is fast with a good mouth.

How do cheaters build a program around their dogs? Do they select around dogs that will cover because they pitch them on strike and tree? Counterfeit champions and totally worthless for breeding purposes.

Math, statistics, pedigrees are all tools to aid in selection but you have to do the home work yourself. No easy task. Good luck and engage your brain before you respond. I will talk with any of you who are serious about trying to breed better hounds.

Posted by msinc on 06-05-2017 03:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by cwbluebio
How many ways can a person disagree with just about everything posted on here? Most of you would consider me a member of a clique because the hounds I hunt,breed, feed and have had the most luck with in coon hunting, competition and reproduction were basically line bred (or closer)-males and females.

Mostly what I hear from these comments are inexperience or just plain ignorance. What is wrong with the Bluetick breed? Have you got a mirror? Just because you have been unsuccessful do not put all the blame on someone else.

I know what I want. I know what I have had. I pray that I can recognize the talent and develop it when I get my hands on it. I firmly believe what I'm after will stack up against anything from any breed. Having said that-I don't want an idiot, when the dog trees it has a coon (trees don't count, coons do), not ill, not automatic and is fast with a good mouth.

How do cheaters build a program around their dogs? Do they select around dogs that will cover because they pitch them on strike and tree? Counterfeit champions and totally worthless for breeding purposes.

Math, statistics, pedigrees are all tools to aid in selection but you have to do the home work yourself. No easy task. Good luck and engage your brain before you respond. I will talk with any of you who are serious about trying to breed better hounds.

I agree...I am very happy with the two blueticks I have right now. I believe we all have dogs that, if we could, we would turn a few dials one way or another to dial them in a little better and I am no exception.
I also believe that we all would like to think what we are doing might someday "better" the breed in some positive way.
I have heard the words repeated several times on this thread..."we need to think outside the box"......but it sounds like it's coming from a side liner...it is easy to start off with catchy phrases like this, but I cant help but notice that nobody follows thru with exactly what they are going to do about it.
O.K., I get it, you are going to tell the rest of the world what "we" need to do. But not a single one has offered a suggestion any further. You have a dog , you intend to {I guess} train or maybe breed it to "better" the breed so you are going to think outside the box. That's fantastic, now what is your next move??? Breed your dog to who???
"We" need to think....sounds like these folks want someone else to go first so they can follow. It doesn't seem like to me that following is going to get it done. I am still not sure what the end result is supposed to be??? Compete with walkers head to head in a nite hunt??? Are you really sure that type dog is what you are looking to turn this breed into????

Posted by pamjohnson on 06-05-2017 02:39 PM:

I could be wrong but I think dave dean has actually already moved the breed forward. I even think it was buy thinking outside the box as some want to call it. he line breed the best he had to the best he had when line breeding wasn't the most popular thing to do. now to say he couldn't compete with the walkers would not be correct at all.

other folks have taken his line of hounds to forum there own lines that have went on to do there fair share of winning as well I think. they also have moved the breed forward.

thinking outside the box is great but just what that means to you doesn't mean the same thing to the next fellow.

many other's have moved this breed forward as well. it take's a lot of dedication to do what many of them have done and they have had help along the way to.
I feel that there is nothing that can help are breed out more than having good dedicated hard hunters taking blue pups to the woods as much as possible. that is were the work is at and that is were the rewards come home. lets get them in the woods and good luck!

Posted by shadinc on 06-05-2017 04:41 PM:

Re: Re: I

quote:
Originally posted by Wayne Valentino
[B]recently had a conversation with a dear friend of mine who is a very successful Walker dog man. Winning BIG hunts and lots of cash in various KC's. What he breeds and trains for today is not what he bred for 30 years ago. Today he breeds to please the scorecard. 30 years ago he bred to please the coonhunter in the winter with emphasis on increasing track speed while maintaining strong treeing instincts. I would not want one of his dogs today. Bluetick guys are more coonhunters than competition hunters and don't breed to please scorecards. Some are trying to do it, they are few in my book. IMHO, I don't want dead loners that are socially dysfunctional, a bit grouchy at trees, that horse race 500 yards into the timber trying to create separation from their cast mates before they even start looking for a coon. That is not coonhunting. Blues that hunt from the second they are turned loose, have the proper amount of independence, increased speed and have nose power to tree February coon, not just July kittens is what I see Blue Guys want, and if competition wins fall into the mix then fantastic. To win big you gotta breed to please the scorecard, to those who want that go for all the gusto and achieve your goals !! I wish you well and much success.

I will say this in addition to these statements. The Bluetick with nose and speed that consistently trees behind, beside and in front of the horse racers can consistently beat them if turned loose in a reasonable coon population. I do not condone breeding automatic strike dogs that are dead loners to always have the 100 / 125 like some others have done. A good fast Bluedog can compete on the breeds merits and strong points in any hunt.

Best post on this thread.

Posted by novicane65 on 06-05-2017 11:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Treedoggmafia
I don't believe the bluetick breed has the drive to win hunts....yes there's some but not like other breeds....breeding to win hunts don't mean breeding to make ticked up walkers....I don't like a babbler but I want a FAST honest strike dog.....i want a dog that can fly in a track not a dog I can listen to on same track all night long.....I want a 1 bark tree dog that hits trees like a freight train and has a coon....not a dog that I can listen to there pretty bawl for 5 minutes checking themselves before they tree.."if" they tree!

It don't matter if you have a litter of pups out of winners AND on the reproducers list with many dogs in there ped on the reproducers list.....unless your part of a clique or have somebody's favorite dog in the ped many times...

The dogs that tell me the most are the ones owned by no named people or people that operate with out needing help...

Blueticks seem to be like there owners....they cover everybody most the time....gotta pack together and are extremly jealous....

I understand how line breeding works but what bluetick out there was that much of a winner that anybody won't there traits locked in 2,3,4 or 5 times??

I think there's some dogs out there that have reproduced well...also believe many coulda produced better if the owners woulda looked outside the box a little more....

There's definantly several winning males out there right now...females also but I believe the females should be pushed in more hunts...seems everybody finishes em to grand and says there to valuable to hunt or ntch and tell everybody they got nothing to prove to you...that's great glad your proud but just cause they've proved something to you don't mean they've proved anything to me....

I don't breed for pedigree,looks or anything at all other than style! I want a certain style of dog and that's the only reason I breed dogs....

To many people just breeding for $ or because a dog has your old world beater in its ped 5 generations back...

Just my opinions and that don't mean everybody or my opinions are the only one that matters....I'm open minded and allways looking for excuses to move forward and not much for making em to go back words or sit at idle for 20 years!

I agree with you on this. What I've been looking for, just don't see a "line" that puts the extra go in the blueticks. The ones with the extra go seem to be really hard to come by. The one I'm looking for I want to hunt just as hard and fast at daybreak as when it's unsnapped the evening before. One that parks under a coon, and is fast all the way around. I don't mean 3-4 mph avg, I'm talking around 7-9 range.

I gave up looking for it. If you do find one in the blueticks it's price is about 3 times as much as a walker or english that hunts same way.

Posted by Ron Moore on 06-06-2017 12:44 PM:

Results??

First of all, I respect any bluetick breeders opinion on this thread that is trying to better what he/she have. Anyone who hasn't tried to take their good male or female and try to move forward in a positive direction probably wouldn't fit into this conversation. It's always easy to set on the sidelines and root for or condemn what is happening. I am not considered a large scale breeder by no means but I have thrown my hat into the ring and gave it my best shot. I've been out of the breeders circle for the last few years but haven't quit following some breeders who have tried to move this breed forward. I have seen some nice dogs surface, IMO, and some maybe not so note worthy but most of their owners are trying to make a difference. I personally don't hunt anything other than a bluetick but I do respect all other breeds and breeders that are trying to make a difference. Blueticks are and have always been the main focus of the direction I'm going. I have good friends that hunt other breeds and I like them just as well as if they were hunting a bluetick, just not my thing. I believe breeding these hounds is similar to the stock market, sometimes it takes a long time to see the results. You may only get a very small change each time you try but when you look back at the last 20 years you realize where you have come. There are many breeders of Blueticks in this country that I respect because they have stuck by their guns regardless of what some fly by night, in and out breeder may think or say. Most of these breeders are not very vocal but they stand by their mistakes or gains.

On a personal note, I have taken what I considered my best to what I considered the best out there and tried to get good results. Sometimes it worked but most of the time it didn't IMO. I always expect better from the next litter but it doesn't always happen so you cut your losses and move on to the next attempt. BUT once in a while you get a diamond in the rough and then you realize why you do this. Any breeder that has done this for any length of time will admit this, if they don't then they aren't a responsible breeder. IMO, too may folks want a UKC World Champion Bluetick more than they want a good dog on the end of their leash. Remember, a watched pot never boils. Hunt what you have and try to better what you have. You never know where that next great one will come from. Have a wonderful day.

Posted by recon on 06-06-2017 02:54 PM:

I think the breed as a whole is starting to move forward for the most part. I just commented the other day to my hunting buddy that I have seen some really good looking crosses made recently, meaning crosses utilizing QUALITY females on some of these good studs. I think it will be several years and generations before we fully see the positive results of this on a consistent basis, but I do believe we are headed in the right direction.

Ill use Bocephus as an example. Bodacious was from a quality cross then produced Bocephus from a quality cross. It now seems like the quality females Bo has been bred to are making quality coondogs. Now if those offspring will be crossed on quality females, it can't help but continue in this direction.

I know the word "Quality" is subjective in this breed, but I do believe that more blue tick hunters are becoming more like minded in this area. That is going to help.

__________________
J. Bradford

Posted by Eric Werry on 06-07-2017 01:46 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by cwbluebio
How many ways can a person disagree with just about everything posted on here? Most of you would consider me a member of a clique because the hounds I hunt,breed, feed and have had the most luck with in coon hunting, competition and reproduction were basically line bred (or closer)-males and females.

Mostly what I hear from these comments are inexperience or just plain ignorance. What is wrong with the Bluetick breed? Have you got a mirror? Just because you have been unsuccessful do not put all the blame on someone else.

I know what I want. I know what I have had. I pray that I can recognize the talent and develop it when I get my hands on it. I firmly believe what I'm after will stack up against anything from any breed. Having said that-I don't want an idiot, when the dog trees it has a coon (trees don't count, coons do), not ill, not automatic and is fast with a good mouth.

How do cheaters build a program around their dogs? Do they select around dogs that will cover because they pitch them on strike and tree? Counterfeit champions and totally worthless for breeding purposes.

Math, statistics, pedigrees are all tools to aid in selection but you have to do the home work yourself. No easy task. Good luck and engage your brain before you respond. I will talk with any of you who are serious about trying to breed better hounds.

you got that right, AMEN!

__________________
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Posted by blueticker on 06-07-2017 04:14 AM:

I'll be breeding Flo to Botox if all works out. Line breeding loaded up with the type I enjoy hunting. The type that tree coon fast & often and has proven they can compete at the top level. Last year's litter from Indian Creek Boomer x Flo are 9 months old. I sure like my female from the cross. Boomer can win at any level.

Posted by steeb_63 on 06-08-2017 05:55 AM:

IM LIKE MANY OTHERS! I BREED FOR WHAT I WANT IM NOT A BREEDER BUT I RAISE PUPS AND SELL A FEW BUT IM WILLING TO BET MY BUZZ DOG HAS NOT HAD 20 PUPS GO TO TOWN, I THINK WE ALL SHOULD WORK TOGETHER BUT THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, I HAVE BRED TO SEVERAL DIFFERENT STUDS AND GET THE SAME RESULTS THAT I GET IF I BREED TO MINE, I WELCOME ANYONE TO COME HUNT WITH THE DOG I CURRENTLY AM USING TO STUD HE HAS PROVEN HE CAN WIN IN UKC OR PKC HE IS NOT FLASHY BUT TREES COON,I ENJOY THE PLEASURE HUNT AND NOT SO MUCH COMP HUNTS BUT YOU HAVE TO IF YOU WANNA RAISE PUPS, JMO AND ALOTTA GOOD POINTS ON HERE

__________________
GRNITECH GRCH PKC SCH STEBERS MIGHTY LONESOME II
HIGH SCORING BLUETICK BLK & TAN DAYS 2016, 2017 and 2018
TOP 9 2017 FALL SUPERSTAKES
2018 2ND PLACE BREED WINNER PKC
2019 ILLINOIS STATE CHAMPION
2019 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATL GRNITECH OF BREED
2019 ZONE 3 HIGH SCORING DOG
2019 WORLD CH TOP 100
2019 PURINA NATIONALS BREED WINNER.
2019 FALL ROUND UP KING OF THE HUNT.
2019 ERCHA PKC PRO HUNT TOP 4
2020 WINTER CLASSIC SAT. 4TH PLACE CHAMPION DIVISION
2020 WORLD QUALIIFIED
2020 NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL HUNT WINNER
2020 NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS DOUBLE CAST WINNER 3RD PLACE GRNITECH FRI AND 4TH PLACE GRNITECH SAT
2020 Natl english days high scoring dog overall fri 1rst place grnitech sat 3rd place grnitech.
2021 invitational hunt winner
2021 natl bluetick days 9th place RQE winner
T0C Top 64 winner

ALSO HOME OF
PR Stebers Lil Blue Krayzee[dual grand penny x grnitech krypt]
nitech Stebers Big Ole Slick
NITECH STEBERS MIGHTY LONESOME 3 AKA CASH[7 wins towards grnitech
Stebers Mighty Blue Bell
Stebers 5 Gen
Stebers Pure Country
Stebers Shining Diamond
Stebers Lonesome Sue
Stebers Mighty Blue Patsy
Stebers Ole Blue Betty
Stebers Lil Blue Krayzee II
AND SEVERAL YOUNG ONES IN THE MIX

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