UKC Forums - Running to the trees

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 05-27-2017 02:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssgied
I used to be high speed, until I left half of a leg in the desert. Now I am a little slower. I am not looking for sympathy from anyone, but nothing ticks me off faster than the rest of the cast being at the top of the hill waiting on me and when I get there find that they have all treed their dogs, because they were able to hear from that vantage point. Or as soon as I get there they take off again, cause they had time to catch their breath. Really I and others like me are not asking for much, just a fair shake. My dog may not be as good as others, but my entry fee is. For those that think that us slower folks should quit hunting, well you may be a quitter but I ain't.

I have been watching this post. IMO. This is about respect. We are not broken down, has Beens. We enjoy the hunt and the competition. Nothing irks me more than MOH giving the scorecard to a paid professional handler. Think about that statement... He gets PAID to win.... Or old so and so's son.... Cause of his dad. So.. some if you think if someone wants to take his kid, he should stay home, because he can't keep up with young adults racing to the tree. Or someone like me, a bad knee... But good on flat ground or going uphill... Going down hurts ... Been left in a creek with 5' sides... someday you will all be there, sweat running off your nose as you try hard to keep up with long legged youngsters.... I also am no quitter. I try to judge anytime they let me... And I better be first to the tree...

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Posted by yadkintar on 05-27-2017 02:34 PM:

I used to be one of those 100 yrds ahead of everybody guys bad knee stopped that I still like to go tho.

Posted by blueticker on 05-27-2017 03:17 PM:

I attempt to be within 50 yds of the hounds when the 5 minutes has expired. This isn't always possible. Some slow walkers seem to get faster when their hound is treed alone or first. If I'm judging I may not be first to the first tree but will be first to the rest. A calm explanation of what happens if I'm not takes place. Had a judge leave me a minute or two behind getting to a tree and tried to minus me. I told him he could minus me but requested he scratch himself for leaving me. No minus and we arrived to the tree together the rest of the night.

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Posted by J I Allen on 05-27-2017 09:43 PM:

To me a pace maintained by everybody is only going as fast as the slowest person in the cast. Why do you think you have to be 100 yards ahead of everybody getting to the tree, are you afraid your dog will be off the tree, or he'll have another dog down? Where I live with it being straight up and down I don't care how good of shape you think you're in you will not be at a tree in 5 minutes. I was on one of those cast like Todd was talking about, the other 2 left me and would get about 100 yards ahead, the very second I got to them they took off again and it was one of those places that was straight up. I said something to them and they said they were waiting on me, but that's not maintaining a pace for everyone. Of course one of them was carrying the scorecard. The next drop was straight up so I withdrew, so I don't enter any hunts, because my money feels better in my pocket than giving it to a club that apparently doesn't want any old geezers holding up the young hunters. As a side not from what I've seen in the clubs I'm in when the old geezers quit the clubs will go under, because none of the young hunters are interested in learning anything about running a club, only hunt and go home or not even come back to the club if they don't win.

Posted by Jparker on 05-28-2017 02:42 AM:

Im 28 years old and i get around the woods good for around here. when i hunt with old men who couldnt get around good i will walk behind them and make sure they could get up ditch banks beaver ponds and the bays we have around here they were in their sixties. its about respect and you know when you're good to them they are willing to tell you a few tricks to better your dog. Because i see my dad getting older hes almost fifty and i can see its getting harder to do what he use to and people have to think what if someone did that to their mother or father that would fire them up and they would say something. And hey if they wont move unless its their dog laugh it off because one day everybody looks back and sees how stupid they were over the small things. life moves fast enough as it is enjoy it because there are some that cant

Posted by Mark V. on 05-28-2017 04:12 AM:

I don't think there is disresprect ment to any older hunter (not on my part) but if a guy can go to his dog on a split tree why can't he walk ahead of the cast to handle his dog? I for one feel if I am holding the cast up it is in good sportsmanship to allow him to handle his dog asap after the 5 is up.

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-28-2017 11:39 AM:

If this guideline was followed there would be more hunters hunt. Secondly I still feel most hunters know why the 90% want to run to their hounds and it is not about treeing more coons. If they do not like following the guidelines set we only have one alternative, enforce the rule.

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
For what it's worth......

Advisor Column
June 2017
Allen Gingerich

Pace Attainable by All
I recently had a conversation with a nice old fella probably in his upper-60’s. This veteran obviously still loves to hunt and usually carries a pretty decent hound. The conversation turned into the topic of how some of the younger guys tend to be in a big hurry getting to trees. He said that most casts are great about not leaving him behind but every now and then he’ll run into some guys that just don’t care to gear it down a bit. He also remarked that it may not be that much longer before he’ll have to turn the lead strap over to a younger handler.

It was obvious by the stories and memories he shared that he has never lost an ounce of passion for hunting hounds and competing with them. While this topic was addressed a number of years ago in this column, his passion inspired me to touch on the topic again as a friendly reminder for us to be considerate of those older hunters who still enjoy the nite hunts.

Then just last weekend I was a spectator on a cast where one of the handlers was a bit older and slower. However, not even close, in my opinion, where he should consider giving it up. We’ll call him Bill, mainly because that was his actual name. As a spectator, I noticed that Bill was usually the one bringing up the rear and we were getting away from him at times. So, I started walking along with him at his pace. The cast was good about stopping periodically and waiting on us to catch up, but then off we’d go again. Nonetheless, walking along with this hunter reminded me again of the afore mentioned feller and gave me a few ideas to suggest on this topic.

First, Rule 9 (c) clearly states; {Judge must maintain pace attainable by all cast members of cast.} It irks me when I hear comments along the lines of so and so needs to give it up cause I’m not waiting on a slower handler. Guess what; the rules say you have to! Matter of fact, it says the judge “must” maintain a pace attainable by all. Stopping along the way and allowing them to catch up is what it is, but by virtue of the rule that is not maintaining their pace.

Walking along with Bill and stopping periodically to let him catch up brings me to making a point of something to consider when doing so. Everyone else who stopped to wait on Bill and I, got a minute to take a little breather. As soon as we caught up; off we went again! Guess who probably needed a breather the most? Me! Ok; Bill could have used one, although he wasn’t complaining about it at all. Rather it just reminded me of how that usually works and it’s worth mentioning as something to consider. Throw in some hills and tough walking and it would probably really frustrate someone like Bill.

In my personal experience, I can honestly say that I’ve never really seen where a slower or older guy has been a big issue. As the judge, you might start heading to the trees sooner that you would otherwise. Maybe stopping along the way a few more times than normal. No big deal, is it? It’s being considerate and I think they’ll appreciate and respect you for your consideration. Walking along with Bill the other night made me think of another good suggestion. How easy would it be to simply walk alongside that handler? Now you’re maintaining his pace and you might not even think it’s that slow. At least that’s the thought that came to my mind that night. Just a suggestion that might be worth considering.

Many of our older hunters have been a part of this sport since before some of us had wet ears. Surely, we can be considerate enough to give them a little break allowing them to enjoy the hunts as long as they can do so without hindering their cast mates too much. Think about it. All of us may very well be in their shoes one day. A little respect and consideration for the older hunters will go a long way.

Finally, it is the judge’s responsibility to enforce Rule 9 (c). It was implemented for a dang good reason. Intentionally, dragging behind is for another topic and another day. This one is about being a good sportsman/woman and doing the right thing and giving our elders due consideration and respect.

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Posted by Melblank on 05-28-2017 12:47 PM:

Every time I think I might give competition hunting another try I read a post like this. Have we lost our humanity in our desire to win?

Posted by elvis on 05-28-2017 05:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blueticker
I attempt to be within 50 yds of the hounds when the 5 minutes has expired.

with all due respect, should you not try to be AT the tree when the 5 expires?

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-28-2017 06:01 PM:

It has become almost impossible anymore to be at the tree in 5 min. Too many race horses that don't hunt until they are a mile and alone. Could that be another issue, maybe if the dogs would hunt the territory and not the next section they would make more trees?

Posted by JiM on 05-28-2017 06:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Melblank
Every time I think I might give competition hunting another try I read a post like this. Have we lost our humanity in our desire to win?

You've made a good choice Mel, anyone that could be scared off by the crap they read on the internet is way too senitive for this game.

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Posted by yadkintar on 05-28-2017 06:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You've made a good choice Mel, anyone that could be scared off by the crap they read on the internet is way too senitive for this game.

I want Jim , Elvis , hobo , yadkintar 4 hrs endurence cast must jog from tree to tree !!!

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-28-2017 06:31 PM:

Advisor Column
June 2017
Allen Gingerich

Pace Attainable by All
I recently had a conversation with a nice old fella probably in his upper-60’s. This veteran obviously still loves to hunt and usually carries a pretty decent hound. The conversation turned into the topic of how some of the younger guys tend to be in a big hurry getting to trees. He said that most casts are great about not leaving him behind but every now and then he’ll run into some guys that just don’t care to gear it down a bit. He also remarked that it may not be that much longer before he’ll have to turn the lead strap over to a younger handler.

It was obvious by the stories and memories he shared that he has never lost an ounce of passion for hunting hounds and competing with them. While this topic was addressed a number of years ago in this column, his passion inspired me to touch on the topic again as a friendly reminder for us to be considerate of those older hunters who still enjoy the nite hunts.

Then just last weekend I was a spectator on a cast where one of the handlers was a bit older and slower. However, not even close, in my opinion, where he should consider giving it up. We’ll call him Bill, mainly because that was his actual name. As a spectator, I noticed that Bill was usually the one bringing up the rear and we were getting away from him at times. So, I started walking along with him at his pace. The cast was good about stopping periodically and waiting on us to catch up, but then off we’d go again. Nonetheless, walking along with this hunter reminded me again of the afore mentioned feller and gave me a few ideas to suggest on this topic.

First, Rule 9 (c) clearly states; {Judge must maintain pace attainable by all cast members of cast.} It irks me when I hear comments along the lines of so and so needs to give it up cause I’m not waiting on a slower handler. Guess what; the rules say you have to! Matter of fact, it says the judge “must” maintain a pace attainable by all. Stopping along the way and allowing them to catch up is what it is, but by virtue of the rule that is not maintaining their pace.

Walking along with Bill and stopping periodically to let him catch up brings me to making a point of something to consider when doing so. Everyone else who stopped to wait on Bill and I, got a minute to take a little breather. As soon as we caught up; off we went again! Guess who probably needed a breather the most? Me! Ok; Bill could have used one, although he wasn’t complaining about it at all. Rather it just reminded me of how that usually works and it’s worth mentioning as something to consider. Throw in some hills and tough walking and it would probably really frustrate someone like Bill.

In my personal experience, I can honestly say that I’ve never really seen where a slower or older guy has been a big issue. As the judge, you might start heading to the trees sooner that you would otherwise. Maybe stopping along the way a few more times than normal. No big deal, is it? It’s being considerate and I think they’ll appreciate and respect you for your consideration. Walking along with Bill the other night made me think of another good suggestion. How easy would it be to simply walk alongside that handler? Now you’re maintaining his pace and you might not even think it’s that slow. At least that’s the thought that came to my mind that night. Just a suggestion that might be worth considering.

Many of our older hunters have been a part of this sport since before some of us had wet ears. Surely, we can be considerate enough to give them a little break allowing them to enjoy the hunts as long as they can do so without hindering their cast mates too much. Think about it. All of us may very well be in their shoes one day. A little respect and consideration for the older hunters will go a long way.

Finally, it is the judge’s responsibility to enforce Rule 9 (c). It was implemented for a dang good reason. Intentionally, dragging behind is for another topic and another day. This one is about being a good sportsman/woman and doing the right thing and giving our elders due consideration and respect. [/B][/QUOTE]

Posted by Melblank on 05-28-2017 06:39 PM:

Jim, I am not scared of anything. I just see enough bad behavior and disrespect like yours on a daily basis I don't feel the need to pay an entry fee to see it.

Posted by JiM on 05-28-2017 07:08 PM:

If you haven't hunted on a cast, then you haven't seen anything. You are judging the hunts solely based on what you read on this board. If thats good enough for you, then its fine with me.

Posted by yadkintar on 05-28-2017 08:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I want Jim , Elvis , hobo , yadkintar 4 hrs endurence cast must jog from tree to tree !!!

I might add it might take us 4 hrs to get to the first tree lol. But hey it's my fantasy cast I will just make up the rules as I see fit lol.

Posted by Melblank on 05-28-2017 09:18 PM:

Jim if you would have read my post you would have seen that I have tried it. I stated that every time I think I will give it another try. The fact is I tried it a few times-4 to be exact- and saw arguing in 2 casts. I guided a group of nch from another club at one of our local hunts last year. Those 3 hunters and nonhunting judge were from same club, rode together, and almost came to blows at end of cast. Those experiences AND what I see on here is my evidence.

Posted by SFWALKER on 05-29-2017 03:25 AM:

First off, if I always make sure the cast is together. I do not and will not let anyone walk ahead of the cast if I am judging and will always make sure the slowest person is with the cast.

Having said that, I was at one of the zone hunts a few years ago and drew out with an elderly fellow who walked with a cane. He was the judge. We were taken to a place that had been hunted to death and actually saw 2 dead coons where we parked to cut loose. First drop dogs get pretty deep and get treed. What should have been a 15 minute walk took over 40 minutes. By the time we scored a couple of trees well over an hour had been used. Long story short, we had a dead cast. My dog treed a coon by himself 10 minutes after the hunt that would have placed us and advanced us to top 100.

My dad still occasionally will hunt a cast, but he has enough respect for other cast members to not hold everyone up. He will withdraw out of respect if he has to. Most folks around here will insist that he doesn't withdraw and will go his pace, but he has enough respect to try and not put a cast in that situation. Senior casts have a purpose.

Just be reasonable. Don't run off and leave someone that is just a little slower than you, and don't enter a hunt if it takes you 20 minutes to walk 300 yards.

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Posted by BEST EVER on 05-29-2017 11:05 AM:

Posted by msinc on 05-29-2017 01:15 PM:

I don't mean any disrespect, but wanting to hunt and being physically able to hunt are two different things. I am lucky, I am very fit and 55. I love it when I guide a cast of young guys and they give me that "what are you doing here" look when we first start out...I know I will have all their tongues hanging before the first hour is up!!!! And I usually do.
That said, if you are not fit enough to hunt, within reason, then get a handler, let him do the "keeping up" and you hang back and listen and enjoy. People that are not in shape to go out in the woods and put in 2 hours but insist on putting themselves in that position remind me of all those mini-van drivers doing 45 up the left hand lane and WILL NOT get over.
Now, I will say two things; First, I will take any hunter that is not fit enough to hunt, but still wants to go and enjoy it ANYTIME. You wont be rushed, you wont be disrespected, you will have a good time and you will probably ride on a SXS most of the hunt. Second, for all those that read this and say, "you will be here one day, you wont be able to keep up forever".....you are right, and when that happens I will have a handler.
Last cast I was in we had a judge that looked like he would dress out about 350 and couldn't hardly walk. He had no business being in the woods, let alone trying to judge a cast. A dog that should have been scratched got a first place win instead.

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-29-2017 02:44 PM:

June 2017
Allen Gingerich

Pace Attainable by All
I recently had a conversation with a nice old fella probably in his upper-60’s. This veteran obviously still loves to hunt and usually carries a pretty decent hound. The conversation turned into the topic of how some of the younger guys tend to be in a big hurry getting to trees. He said that most casts are great about not leaving him behind but every now and then he’ll run into some guys that just don’t care to gear it down a bit. He also remarked that it may not be that much longer before he’ll have to turn the lead strap over to a younger handler.

It was obvious by the stories and memories he shared that he has never lost an ounce of passion for hunting hounds and competing with them. While this topic was addressed a number of years ago in this column, his passion inspired me to touch on the topic again as a friendly reminder for us to be considerate of those older hunters who still enjoy the nite hunts.

Then just last weekend I was a spectator on a cast where one of the handlers was a bit older and slower. However, not even close, in my opinion, where he should consider giving it up. We’ll call him Bill, mainly because that was his actual name. As a spectator, I noticed that Bill was usually the one bringing up the rear and we were getting away from him at times. So, I started walking along with him at his pace. The cast was good about stopping periodically and waiting on us to catch up, but then off we’d go again. Nonetheless, walking along with this hunter reminded me again of the afore mentioned feller and gave me a few ideas to suggest on this topic.

First, Rule 9 (c) clearly states; {Judge must maintain pace attainable by all cast members of cast.} It irks me when I hear comments along the lines of so and so needs to give it up cause I’m not waiting on a slower handler. Guess what; the rules say you have to! Matter of fact, it says the judge “must” maintain a pace attainable by all. Stopping along the way and allowing them to catch up is what it is, but by virtue of the rule that is not maintaining their pace.

Walking along with Bill and stopping periodically to let him catch up brings me to making a point of something to consider when doing so. Everyone else who stopped to wait on Bill and I, got a minute to take a little breather. As soon as we caught up; off we went again! Guess who probably needed a breather the most? Me! Ok; Bill could have used one, although he wasn’t complaining about it at all. Rather it just reminded me of how that usually works and it’s worth mentioning as something to consider. Throw in some hills and tough walking and it would probably really frustrate someone like Bill.

In my personal experience, I can honestly say that I’ve never really seen where a slower or older guy has been a big issue. As the judge, you might start heading to the trees sooner that you would otherwise. Maybe stopping along the way a few more times than normal. No big deal, is it? It’s being considerate and I think they’ll appreciate and respect you for your consideration. Walking along with Bill the other night made me think of another good suggestion. How easy would it be to simply walk alongside that handler? Now you’re maintaining his pace and you might not even think it’s that slow. At least that’s the thought that came to my mind that night. Just a suggestion that might be worth considering.

Many of our older hunters have been a part of this sport since before some of us had wet ears. Surely, we can be considerate enough to give them a little break allowing them to enjoy the hunts as long as they can do so without hindering their cast mates too much. Think about it. All of us may very well be in their shoes one day. A little respect and consideration for the older hunters will go a long way.

Finally, it is the judge’s responsibility to enforce Rule 9 (c). It was implemented for a dang good reason. Intentionally, dragging behind is for another topic and another day. This one is about being a good sportsman/woman and doing the right thing and giving our elders due consideration and respect. [/B][/QUOTE] [/B][/QUOTE]

Posted by msinc on 05-29-2017 03:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ed zachary
I agree, but I also think the slow pokes should be scratched also. The rules say that you should attempt to be at the tree as soon as the five is up. Some will not even start towards the tree until the five is up, unless of course their dog is there.

This is definitely one of those things on the scorecard that have conflicting rules which can be applied either way. One rule says slow down to the level of the slowest person in the cast so he is not left behind. Another, that you point out, says attempt to get to the tree as soon as the 5 is up. Which rule takes precedent??? It kind of makes sense that the slow down to the slowest would dictate just how "soon" the attempt could be.
I agree, there should or has to be some kind of line drawn as to just how invalid a handler can be and still enter a hunt. We are talking extremes here, but that line first has to be drawn by the individual him or herself. Sooner or later that old saying, "if you cant run with the big dogs you gotta stay on the porch" has to come into play.
It appears this is just one of those things that will just have to be left to solve itself on it's own....I understand UKC not wanting to open the can of worms regarding whose "fit" to play. Their position as a business is one simple question: do you have the entry money???
In reality, the way it plays out in the real world, and I am not saying I agree with this, is that guys that just cant keep up for whatever reason will continue to try and continue to get upset with everyone else. Nobody wants to admit they are getting old or cant go like they used to. It might be a medical event or they will finally get tired of feeling like they don't belong. Eventually, it will fix itself.
Bestever, instead of re-posting the same long post we have all read already every time you read what you don't want to hear.... why not go jogging instead????
A "blank check" for still being able to enter when you are physically unfit????? What's next??? A trophy for EVERY handler that entered???

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-29-2017 03:39 PM:

Posted by msinc on 05-29-2017 03:50 PM:

Okay bestever...you win the trophy that says "Last Winner"!!!!!

Posted by BEST EVER on 05-29-2017 03:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BEST EVER
June 2017
Allen Gingerich

Pace Attainable by All
I recently had a conversation with a nice old fella probably in his upper-60’s. This veteran obviously still loves to hunt and usually carries a pretty decent hound. The conversation turned into the topic of how some of the younger guys tend to be in a big hurry getting to trees. He said that most casts are great about not leaving him behind but every now and then he’ll run into some guys that just don’t care to gear it down a bit. He also remarked that it may not be that much longer before he’ll have to turn the lead strap over to a younger handler.

It was obvious by the stories and memories he shared that he has never lost an ounce of passion for hunting hounds and competing with them. While this topic was addressed a number of years ago in this column, his passion inspired me to touch on the topic again as a friendly reminder for us to be considerate of those older hunters who still enjoy the nite hunts.

Then just last weekend I was a spectator on a cast where one of the handlers was a bit older and slower. However, not even close, in my opinion, where he should consider giving it up. We’ll call him Bill, mainly because that was his actual name. As a spectator, I noticed that Bill was usually the one bringing up the rear and we were getting away from him at times. So, I started walking along with him at his pace. The cast was good about stopping periodically and waiting on us to catch up, but then off we’d go again. Nonetheless, walking along with this hunter reminded me again of the afore mentioned feller and gave me a few ideas to suggest on this topic.

First, Rule 9 (c) clearly states; {Judge must maintain pace attainable by all cast members of cast.} It irks me when I hear comments along the lines of so and so needs to give it up cause I’m not waiting on a slower handler. Guess what; the rules say you have to! Matter of fact, it says the judge “must” maintain a pace attainable by all. Stopping along the way and allowing them to catch up is what it is, but by virtue of the rule that is not maintaining their pace.

Walking along with Bill and stopping periodically to let him catch up brings me to making a point of something to consider when doing so. Everyone else who stopped to wait on Bill and I, got a minute to take a little breather. As soon as we caught up; off we went again! Guess who probably needed a breather the most? Me! Ok; Bill could have used one, although he wasn’t complaining about it at all. Rather it just reminded me of how that usually works and it’s worth mentioning as something to consider. Throw in some hills and tough walking and it would probably really frustrate someone like Bill.

In my personal experience, I can honestly say that I’ve never really seen where a slower or older guy has been a big issue. As the judge, you might start heading to the trees sooner that you would otherwise. Maybe stopping along the way a few more times than normal. No big deal, is it? It’s being considerate and I think they’ll appreciate and respect you for your consideration. Walking along with Bill the other night made me think of another good suggestion. How easy would it be to simply walk alongside that handler? Now you’re maintaining his pace and you might not even think it’s that slow. At least that’s the thought that came to my mind that night. Just a suggestion that might be worth considering.

Many of our older hunters have been a part of this sport since before some of us had wet ears. Surely, we can be considerate enough to give them a little break allowing them to enjoy the hunts as long as they can do so without hindering their cast mates too much. Think about it. All of us may very well be in their shoes one day. A little respect and consideration for the older hunters will go a long way.

Finally, it is the judge’s responsibility to enforce Rule 9 (c). It was implemented for a dang good reason. Intentionally, dragging behind is for another topic and another day. This one is about being a good sportsman/woman and doing the right thing and giving our elders due consideration and respect.

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