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-- Let me hear your opinion on Brains when it comes to Hounds? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928464022)

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Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Allot of the dogs I see are driven by desire and genetics and not by brains, there is a big difference in my opinion, but that is just my opinion

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True statement I agree

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Outstanding Hounds Have High IQ

If I could repeat the last 44 years of dog training I would cull all pups with high levels of natural coon treeing ability before they were one year old if they did not have a high intelligence and have a very strong desire to please their owner.

Kler Kry, I am in the same camp, breed in dumb and you are about ruined in a line of dogs, it's hard to get rid of. They just act on instinct and it controls everything about them, instead of checking tree, just tree!
There are different camps on this and every subject in coon hunting, mostly because there are two types of hounds man,one Loves a good coon hound to hunt! and the others few they are, Love to breed and raise a good hound.
Group one, does not really care about how he got to that point, as long as he will tree coon.

Group 2, have to be detail people to be good breeders and generally have to have a different mentality. We both need each other to be successful.

Group 1, needs drive, hustle, accuracy, lock-down tree dog.
Group 2, needs balanced hounds with smarts to keep a line going for any period of time.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

After owning 1 dog with brains.I think a large majority of the rest are mental.They either bark a lot at home,run in there crap all day or can't run a track without standing on there head.They use there mouth instead of there brain.I believe the more brains a dog has the more coons it will tree.Another prime example is all the automatic strike dogs now a days.If they had any brains and a trainer with common sense they wouldn't bark till they smell a coon.Jmo

I got me a puppy in March 1983. I brought it in the house to introduce to the family. The pup was 9 weeks old. I laid my coat in the floor and put the puppy on my coat. Each time the pup left the coat, i picked him up and sit him down back on the coat and I gave the command stay. My father speaks right up and asked if i was nuts you can't teach a dog that young. It only took me 3 times, and that pup stayed on the coat. At one point while playing he rolled off the coat, and he turned looked directly at me then jumped back on the coat. My father was couldn't believe his eyes.

Now the same dog actually ended up learning hand signals from me. He behaved like a collie. Some times he would just sit there and watch everything going on around him. You could see the wheels turning. In fact, that dog never ran fast game. If other dogs ran fast game, he would come back to me and sit beside me until I said go find a coon, and he would.

That dog raised all of my expectations on dogs in general and coon hounds for the rest of my life.

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Aim small miss small

quote:

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Originally posted by Jackson87
After owning 1 dog with brains.I think a large majority of the rest are mental.They either bark a lot at home,run in there crap all day or can't run a track without standing on there head.They use there mouth instead of there brain.I believe the more brains a dog has the more coons it will tree.Another prime example is all the automatic strike dogs now a days.If they had any brains and a trainer with common sense they wouldn't bark till they smell a coon.Jmo

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C.JONES

Brains

I think coon hunting brains of the handler/trainer is just as important as the hounds. In hindsight , I've done some pretty dumb things to set back a young dog and have seen others do even dumber things.

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Originally posted by CHEWBACH
Now Matt remember what you just said!! Next time you go to breed!!lol !! or buy!!!

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Brains

Iv saw hounds that you couldn't keep pend up cause they just would always figure a way to escape , but couldn't figure out the right end of a track, you cant tell me he wasn't intelligent to some extent but didn't have a clue when it came to what he was suppose to do. It could have been a lot of things that contributed to the latter but he wasn't dumb that's for sure

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Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

Ray Hudson

Brains

Iv saw hounds that you couldn't keep pend up cause they just would always figure a way to escape , but couldn't figure out the right end of a track, you cant tell me he wasn't intelligent to some extent but didn't have a clue when it came to what he was suppose to do. It could have been a lot of things that contributed to the latter but he wasn't dumb that's for sure

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Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

Ray Hudson

Re: Brains

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Originally posted by nkuhl
I think coon hunting brains of the handler/trainer is just as important as the hounds. In hindsight , I've done some pretty dumb things to set back a young dog and have seen others do even dumber things.

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C.JONES

quote:

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Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Allot of the dogs I see are driven by desire and genetics and not by brains, there is a big difference in my opinion, but that is just my opinion

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Originally posted by swamp1
there you go, thats why bruce was telling the truth, about his mongo dog, i have one to out of lonesome ll. there all like that. fellow that bought lonesome ll killed every grinner within 15 mile radious off his house. thats how their bred . some real tight, and i mean tight some tight enough to tear the diamond teeth off a ten in circle saw. man now has 2 of old switk can't even lead them together, got bandaged arm all up getting them apart, now thats tight,their kennel breeding like that,inbred. one darn near put my females eye out cause she checked his tree, and then he left it, sold him for 5 k i heard. man found out what he had shortly.lol alright now you done gone and done it, toldthe truth for a change

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This I know
The smart dog will tree more coons than the other dog.
The smart dog will be a pleasure around the house.
The smart dog will want to please you.
The smart dog will give you allot more enjoyable hunts with your buddies.
I can no longer even tolerate a dog of low intelligence, they have accused me of being a "Daisy"farmer
Life is short boy's Hunt an intelligent hound. lol

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Brains?

When I first started coon hunting many years ago I would look at all those hounds with big pieces of their ears missing and their muzzle all scared up and say, wow, that must be a real coon dog! What I found out later was, wow, that's a real dumb dog. A smart boxer knows when to move in and throw a punch or when to back out when he's getting whooped on. I had a hound back in the late 70's that never had a mark on him when he died but could dispatch a coon in a second. Why, because he had the brains to do the right thing. He was a very good coon dog and a real gentleman on the tree and everywhere else but that being said, he couldn't hold pressure. He couldn't stand to hear another dog treed close to him, he would have to go. That's when I think the breeding comes in. Independence can be bred into a hound but the ability to learn how to fight a coon takes brains! I guess what I'm trying to say is just because a hound is smart in most ways doesn't mean it will be a top coon hound but the combination of inherited traits, natural ability and brains all combined is the recipe for good results.

Ron that's true, There are so many intangibles for a coon hound to be a topnotch hound, it's almost hard to believe it ever happens, that's why we as breeders have to try and make a conscious effort to breed for traits. Did I say traits, yes traits lol
Make America great again! Ban the brood female!

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

.

I think Brains, common sense, desire, drive are all in the mind of the owner. They are a coondog or they are not a coondog. How hard is that to figure out.

How many owners tell you how good their dog is and you hunt with them and they say it must be sick, they never saw it act that way before. You want that same guy telling you their dog has brains. You want the guy who has a dog that never trees possums until you go with it to tell you about desire and trainability in a coon hound.

I coonhunt for one reason. I can go to the tree and see the coon. NO BS, NO EXCUSES. Coon in the tree or the coon isn't in the tree. Well you say some guys seem to have better dogs how do they do it. They accept NO BS and NO EXCUSES.

Want to know if you have a coondog. Go to the woods and turn him/her loose. He goes in there and calls you to a tree with a real live raccoon in it. Your well on your way. You accept anything else, maybe your the one that needs to be checked for brains. Especially if you repeat the process over and over again and end up with back tracks, off game, slick trees or a mean dog that doesn't hunt but protects you.
Now your dog will not be perfect but the more you accept below the perfection line the further you will stray from it.

People say they breed for looks, that I can buy into because any of us can tell looks and if the breeder tells us the looks he is breeding for then we can see if he is doing it.
Breeder says he is breeding for brains. Explain that one to me. Describe a dog with brains. Breeder say he is breeding for nose. Who can check that out.
Go down to your local MENSA CLUB--they all have brains down there. You want to eat dinner with any of them. They any better than the average guy that works hard with the brains God gave him. They might be smarter but are they accomplishing more.

We need to get real. It is black or it is white. Coon or no Coon. We have taken hunting which use to put food on the table and turned it into a hobby. Hobby means your not dedicated to the results, you in it for fun. Enjoy your hobby.

Want to read a book I wrote on training a coondog that is one page long. Take it Hunting, see the coon. That is how you train it.
When your putting it in the truck your teaching it to load.
When you turn it loose your teaching it to hunt.
When your called to the tree and arrive your teaching it you appreciate what it did.
When you put it on a lead and head out your teaching it to lead.
Most people have a dog that does some of those things. Mine do all of them. If yours doesn't do any of those things and you let it not do them, then your enabling it. Don't look at the dog and wonder if it has brains. Look in the mirror.
Coonhunting is the simplest thing a man can dog.

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Brains allow them to use the genetic tools they are given. It also makes them bearable to have around the house until they are old enough to see if they have the tools necessary.

The 15 month old I am hunting now knows 6 verbal commands. I don't need a leash, and I will never have to swim to him. He also has a good mouth and trees a lot of coons

He made it at my house to the age of 15 months because his intelligence made him tolerable to be around. Without brains and manners a dog will never have the chance to be great for me, because they wont live long enough to see if they are any good

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Its like John Wick says, when a hound has all the tools , and the brains, its something special !!!

I have seen Rattle headed dogs that lead, hunt, load and tree coon, Have been there and done that, hated them, no matter how many coon they tree.
For me it's the "ride" going to the tree, that I enjoy, the tree is the final outcome. (And yes I always want the coon in the tree)

There are people you can be around all the time and enjoy! and there are people you would love to choke in 5 min.
Dogs are no different. lol

I will agree "some" behavior is caused or allowed by the owners themselves.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

After going thru 8 of the top competition bred pups a man could ask for.Some English and some Walker.The most consistent thing that Ive seen in the all was lack of brains.Most had to live with a bark collar on there neck.They would also step in there crap to were you couldn't feed them without wearing it.Lack of brains makes me hate a pup so bad by the time it's old enough to hunt I don't even want to hunt them.JMO