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-- The Coonhunter vs Deer Hunter Thing? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928463579)

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Originally posted by Jeff Prince
The dog i mentioned above shot by deer hunter was on public ground hunting squirrel legally and yet many "deer hunters " are defending this jerks actions. You can't reason with idiots. Im not saying all deer hunters are bad im saying deer season brings out too many stupid people who have no business in the woods with a weapon.

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I hope not I pay good money to deer hunt in Batesville!

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Deer hunters

I used to be big into deer hunting when I was in school but my work schedule no longer allows it more than a few times a year. Anyway I went out to the game area tonight for a couple drops and on the way to the woods I wanted to hunt passed two deer camps and 4 pick ups parked. I went by the woods I wanted to hunt because it was right next to one of the camps and I know how excited I used to be about opening week of bow season. I have just as much right to hunt there as they do but would it be the courteous thing to stop in to a camp and ask if they would mind if I turned loose in that woods across the road and if anyone wanted to tag along? Dog went and trees one anyway in one of my second rate spots but if he hadn't I might have left feeling bitter

Pick Your Side

Cause make no mistake about it, if the "big time" deer hunters could shut down every kind of hunting but what they want to hunt, they would do it in a heartbeat. And the more coonhunters that lend a bleeding heart to the plight of the deerhunter the more we shoot ourselves in the foot.



No trophy deer = less jerk deer hunters. Nuff said.

Deer hunting isn't hurt by dogs. Got one deer hunter who had bout give up till I called to run my dawgs. Killed his biggest deer the next morning. He now asks me to hunt his area cause he is convinced it changes the nocturnal patterns of the deer.

Trying to squirrel hunt during deer season is next to impossible. I can't even hunt my own property for fear of my dawgs wandering a little deep in the war zone.

I had a dawg shot. Found him in a trash bag thrown under a bridge with 3 others. Found out there were 9 other dawgs killed in the same area. Sheriffs office called me and said they were going to consider it a closed case after 2 weeks.

I've walked my dawgs within 20yds of bedded deer and then walked them by again as I walked out....undisturbed.

I try to avoid issues but I keep hearing of convictions made by identification by game cam pics.....worries me cause I hunt a lot of small patches. Everybody knows there is always the chance of a dawg getting out of pocket.

My solution....stop the deer feeding stations and prohibit the use of ATV's. Make it so they have to hunt instead of crusing in a couple of miles and holding the crosshairs on the feeder waiting for the deer to walk into the field of view.

And......I think deer season should be extended gun, bow, black powder....let it all run from March through September.....let them have a full six months.

Sorry for the rambling but I get really bothered by by the elitist attitude of Goat chasers and the fact that dawg hunters will always get the short straw.

Deer vs coonhunting

I am a die hard deer hunter and coon hunter. I am fortunate to live in an area where we are blessed to have some of the best hunting for big deer and good coon population. Awhile back everyone could hunt just about anywhere they wanted. Then the mighty dollar came into play and before you know it, land was leased all around. I'm fortunate to still have some private ground to go turn loose on. But as stated above, the dog doesn't see property lines. He gets out of pocket more than likely getting your picture taken on a trail cam this time of year. Most deer hunters believe the hounds run the deer completely out of an area. Which is false, but as Jim stated, you will never convince them otherwise. I coonhunt the woods I deer hunt harder than anywhere else because of the convience of its location to my house. And every year, I have harvested a mature buck with archery and gun from that area. Actually our archery season opened Saturday and I was fortunate to harvest a nice mature buck, hunting from the ground. Haven't scored him yet but going to make Boone and crocket easy. Point is, after continuously proving that you can kill big bucks where hounds are ran, these guys will never admit it to you or themselves that the hounds aren't hurting a thing. I do my best to respect everyone and their properties. I respect the time money and effort they've put in to their sport. The comraderie of deer hunting is about gone around here, replaced by a checkbook and big antlers.

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I coon hunt and bear hunt and deer hunt all and get along with all them for the most part although it is more of a location thing and how diehard the other party is you are dealing with, Go back and read some of the replies on your Comp hunting thread about the first timer at a hunt, If you get any kind of hunters in the same woods someone else has been hunting they get mad and you have problems because most hunters think they should be the only ones there, To tell you the truth people for the most part just can not get along with each other anymore, You could put a Diehard Deer hunter and a Diehard Coon hunter in a room together patting out Play Dough and they would be in to it with each other .

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Mr. Taylor you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I think it comes down to a combination of things a person has to grow into being before the dust actually settles. Call it maturity, being humble, wisdom, thankful, even stupid or timid may be a word used by others to describe the peaceful person.
I will be the first to admit the majority ain't going to get along. Deer hunter to deer hunter, coon hunter to coonhunter or any combination of hunters. Thats why when your in the middle of the fire you just have to do the best you can. Allen and the guys that oversee the hunts run into it at every large hunt. Someone is always not understanding something. Our game commissions deals with it everytime they make a rule, people want to know why. They learn to be hard and just move on to the next adventure and know people will get over it. That makes for a less than good experience when dealing with these things. We also run into it with our hunting buddies. Thats maybe is what makes coon hunting work for me. My dog needs to be by himself to bring out the best in him. That means I am by myself in the woods. But then my respect for a coon hound and other people makes me feel that with some understanding we can all get along. All I can do is control what I do. Either with my hunting buddy or when in a group of angry hunters. I act with maturity, respect and Pray the good Lord brings that to their lives someday. So is I could ask everyone that reads this to do one thing and that is to control what they can (themselves) and try and learn the other point of view. Yes in your own mind evaluate it, question it and even be critical. But the actions and words that come out of your mouth need to be one that promotes friendships and Hunters as a whole. Not one that gives our opposition proof they are right.

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Sadly, it is a sign of the times.
It all stems from ignorance.
Most deer hunters( people in general) are slowly becoming "citified" for lack of a better term.
The typical deer hunter in my area is a weekend warrior afraid of just about everything in the woods. Their hunting knowledge is formed from hunting shows on t.v. instead of real world experiences. You'll never change their mind. Their negative opinions about dog hunting aren't formed from personal observations, rather just a go with the flow mentality.

In my area deer dog hunters ruined it years ago with a careless,crude approach with no respect for property lines, other people etc. This left a bad image for all dog hunters in general. Now the next generation hears the stories from their dad or granddad about how dog hunters mess up hunting and without any real personal observations they blindly accept the fact that dogs and deer don't mix. I don't see how that is going to change.

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Sad thing also in what you mentioned is the dog hunters have maybe the worse reputation with the Game Wardens. I know we run deer and coon and other things down here with dogs. The deer dog hunters sometimes go that extra mile to bring negativity to the sport.

Really like you said nothing is going to be changed as a whole. Our actions will only bring more restrictions on ourselves. We can only as individuals police ourself so our actions isn't used against us.

We joke about this all the time but there is a lot of truth to the fun we have. I take several young guys coon hunting and it is fun to watch their actions when we see a deer at night. They know with me there will be no deer harmed. But their habits kick in and you can just see in their eyes the ones that want to be reaching for a gun or the ones licking their lips.
Seriously you can watch a mans actions and know just what he would do if he was alone in that situation or with a group that thought like him. lol A lot of deer never make it to sunrise. So what to you do. Ban all coon hunters because the actions of some.

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Re: Pick Your Side

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Originally posted by Chris Snyder
Cause make no mistake about it, if the "big time" deer hunters could shut down every kind of hunting but what they want to hunt, they would do it in a heartbeat. And the more coonhunters that lend a bleeding heart to the plight of the deerhunter the more we shoot ourselves in the foot.

No trophy deer = less jerk deer hunters. Nuff said.

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Re: Pick Your Side

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Snyder
Cause make no mistake about it, if the "big time" deer hunters could shut down every kind of hunting but what they want to hunt, they would do it in a heartbeat. And the more coonhunters that lend a bleeding heart to the plight of the deerhunter the more we shoot ourselves in the foot.



No trophy deer = less jerk deer hunters. Nuff said.

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I deer hunt, bow and rifle, and have killed some nice bucks 150"+ in the same spots I coon hunt regularly. I don't stop for deer season. I run my foxhounds when the deer hunts on too, you want to see guys get pissed deer hunting, wait till the hounds blow through their stand location lol. But I don't do it on purpose. I have permission and just as much of a right to hunt what I want. Some guys think when deers on no one else should be in the woods.
I have 2 hard headed archery deer friends and they are their own breed. I just send them the South Carolina DNR study http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/publ...ccoonimpact.pdf lol remind them once and awhile.

As far as the Wardens and a bad wrap I love their face when we are running yotes they ask to see my gun. And i say I don't have one. I never see any Wardens coon hunting.

Ontario is one of those places you can't put deer feed on the ground cause coons clean it out in a couple days.

Re: Deer vs coonhunting

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Originally posted by natgear1982
The comraderie of deer hunting is about gone around here, replaced by a checkbook and big antlers.

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Heres an oldy talking about dogging deer and pretty much shows the deer all stayed in their home range when run by dogs. They only radio collared does in this study
http://scholarworks.sfasu.edu/cgi/v...ontext=forestry

I actually think it is a little more than what some have put on here. Much of the issue stems from the deer experts. They claim you must have sanctuary areas, and nothing must go there. You can not for any reason allow human scent into you hunting areas for fear of driving the big bucks nocturnal or worse away. Then there are are the hunting shows (many which I like) that make a mature deer into the absolute most formidable foe in the woods, and all other game are for amateurs. This feeds into many of the narcissistic personalities of our modern world.

I say all this and I deer hunt. Years ago, when hunting state land I often stopped and talked to guys at the large deer camps. I even invited many to join me, and they did. Today, I often get yelled at on state land by deer hunters.

Don't get me wrong I wholeheartedly believe all hunters and outdoors men should support each other, but things have changed.

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Aim small miss small

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
I actually think it is a little more than what some have put on here. Much of the issue stems from the deer experts. They claim you must have sanctuary areas, and nothing must go there. You can not for any reason allow human scent into you hunting areas for fear of driving the big bucks nocturnal or worse away. Then there are are the hunting shows (many which I like) that make a mature deer into the absolute most formidable foe in the woods, and all other game are for amateurs. This feeds into many of the narcissistic personalities of our modern world.

I say all this and I deer hunt. Years ago, when hunting state land I often stopped and talked to guys at the large deer camps. I even invited many to join me, and they did. Today, I often get yelled at on state land by deer hunters.

Don't get me wrong I wholeheartedly believe all hunters and outdoors men should support each other, but things have changed.

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Good people do not need laws to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws (Plato)

I too support everybody's right to pursue whatever hunting hobby floats their boat. But make no mistake. There's only 1 piece of the hunting pie that has completely changed how they hunt, and what the end goal of that hunt is, at the expense of all other types of hunting. Has how we turkey hunt and the end goal changed? Rabbit hunting? Bear hunting, coon hunting, etc?

I don't know how to change it, but getting along with them at this point just means we either hunt somewhere else or at a different time of yr. The compromise is 1 sided, and it's on our end.

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Bruce,

I think there's still a few options to turn the tide...

When I was down South where the much larger leases and hunt clubs exist, and where they allow baiting, those clubs spend a lot of money on corn and feeders and they don't want the squirrels and coon, tearing up the feeder and eating the corn. With those guys and gals, there is the opportunity to help them by removing their "pests" outside of deer season. Sure they wont let you in their year around, but they will give you a place other than public land, for a few months of the year (depending on seasons).

There's also some farmers out there that still think all that laid down corn, is deer and go seeking deer hunters to address it. There's a download on our NHTDA site of a depredation study, performed by Purdue University that puts that confusion to rest. I've shared that information with some farmers and got them to change their mind about me hunting. One even stood up for me, when deer hunters complained, telling them that if they didn't kill as many deer, as I killed coon, he would replace them!

And there's the quick counter-argument, when turned down by property owners, quickly asking if it's because of some deer leasor concerns, and that I was willing to stay out during season. I've turned several "no"s into yes for nine months of the year! Which is better than nothing...

As many have pointed out... anti-coon hunting, or anti-squirrel hunting, or even anti- other deer hunters, is still anti-hunting!

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David Schmidt
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My dad once told me that a good hunter could kill a deer with a sharp stick. I believe that all the hype on these shows is for the sale of their sponsors products. I think a few of these big time deer hunters should try to go out and kill a booner like Fred Bear did. Get back to the basics. Or go back to using open sights and an old shot gun or 30-30. That's when I had the most fun deer hunting. It was much more challenging then. Now you see 6,7,8, & 9 year old kids hunting out of a hunting blind over bait piles and waiting for a bigger buck to come in. I don't blame the kids, it's their parents. We need to get back to basics. How many of those kids would go hunting if they had to take a .410 single barrel shotgun with rifle slugs and sit on a rock back in a hollow for hours on end just to get a shot at a deer, or better yet to see a deer. That's how it was when I grew up and I couldn't wait for it to get daylight. Now it's all about easy! If you don't work hard for something how can we expect to respect what we've accomplished.

Now on a different note. A while back I was in southern PA and had gotten turned around when I saw a couple game wardens setting in a parking lot talking. I walked up to ask directions and the first thing they said was, we don't give directions to folks from WV, then they laughed. As it turned out they were having a q & a session that day and I had missed all but the tail end of it. Well, they asked if I might have a question and I asked what their opinion was on coon roaming around in the daytime. They said that they were probably hungry but I don't believe that was the case but none the less they asked if I was a coon hunter and said yes. They went on to say that in their entire careers that they hadn't stopped and checked a coon hunter more than a couple times. They mainly have more trouble with deer hunters. I also live next to a game warden and he's a super nice guy and he told me he hates to see deer season come cause that's the busiest time of the year. A few years back I killed a nice buck and was almost to my truck dragging it when he happened by and gave me a hand loading it and even checked it in for me. He said on rainy days are the worse. He gets calls all day long from folks shooting from their vehicle or from the road at deer. I still love to deer hunt but have got very few places left to hunt because of the greediness of these rack hunters. I usually just kill a couple does and the wife gets a couple to last through the winter and I'm done. We need to get back to the basics.

you have to remember one thing they deer hunt during the day we coon hunt at night. I know people that pay 1000's 0f dollars to lease ground to deer hunt. most of the farmers that I hunt on tell the deer hunters he was here before you and will be here when you are gone. all you Mich. hunters and out of state hunters that are hunting in Mich. it is against the law in Mich. for anyone to harass a person that is legally hunting in the state of Mich. so if you have permission witch I always get written permission there is nothing they can do.

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OK my aggravating side can say x2 or x3 or even x4 to all to the deer hunters being aggravating. Why, because he is under educated when it comes to sharing the woods. Then again if your a serious deer hunter and pay good money for a tract of land to hunt maybe you have that right. I can see both sides. I know all my life I have been working with deer hunters and I am proud of a few accomplishments that have taken place because of reasonable discussion.
These happened this year.
Example #1 Deer club I am is had a rule no dogs in the woods one week before until after deer season was over. This year it was changed to 1 week before and only the first 9 days of the season. Big improvement.
Example #2 Getting an agreement worked out with deer hunters and a coon hunter in TN. The coon hunter is now hunting the property because I convinced the deer hunters it wasn't a bad thing.
Example #3 I have a friend that runs a deer club and he has given me full rights to hunt 365 days a year. Turkey season, deer season or any season. He has been so liberal with me that I don't want to make any waves I police myself and stay out of there at certain times.
If I would have taken the attitude the Deer Hunter was wrong in either case the Coon Hunter would have lost. But they won. If all I have to do is listen to the other side, learn about the other side and be cordial to the other side. It is not a big price to pay to promote coon hunting.
I realize being nice don't work for everyone. I don't see any problem with it and I sure don't feel it infringes on my Manhood. You guys have to know what I am talking about when it comes to getting your message across to those that don't agree with your.
Back in the 70's when the Federal Gov was taking over the Big Cypress Swamp down in the Everglades there was meeting after meeting. The hunters would get in there and half of them were an embarrassment. The one group that made the most sense about public use of Gov. Land was a group that went out into the swamps and took pictures of TREE SNAILS. I didn't even know they existed but their professionalism did a lot at those meetings to help all hunters out. They didn't call names, they didn't cuss and shout. They presented facts and stuck to them.

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"Boss Lights"

Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
OK my aggravating side can say x2 or x3 or even x4 to all to the deer hunters being aggravating. Why, because he is under educated when it comes to sharing the woods. Then again if your a serious deer hunter and pay good money for a tract of land to hunt maybe you have that right. I can see both sides. I know all my life I have been working with deer hunters and I am proud of a few accomplishments that have taken place because of reasonable discussion.
These happened this year.
Example #1 Deer club I am is had a rule no dogs in the woods one week before until after deer season was over. This year it was changed to 1 week before and only the first 9 days of the season. Big improvement.
Example #2 Getting an agreement worked out with deer hunters and a coon hunter in TN. The coon hunter is now hunting the property because I convinced the deer hunters it wasn't a bad thing.
Example #3 I have a friend that runs a deer club and he has given me full rights to hunt 365 days a year. Turkey season, deer season or any season. He has been so liberal with me that I don't want to make any waves I police myself and stay out of there at certain times.
If I would have taken the attitude the Deer Hunter was wrong in either case the Coon Hunter would have lost. But they won. If all I have to do is listen to the other side, learn about the other side and be cordial to the other side. It is not a big price to pay to promote coon hunting.
I realize being nice don't work for everyone. I don't see any problem with it and I sure don't feel it infringes on my Manhood. You guys have to know what I am talking about when it comes to getting your message across to those that don't agree with your.
Back in the 70's when the Federal Gov was taking over the Big Cypress Swamp down in the Everglades there was meeting after meeting. The hunters would get in there and half of them were an embarrassment. The one group that made the most sense about public use of Gov. Land was a group that went out into the swamps and took pictures of TREE SNAILS. I didn't even know they existed but their professionalism did a lot at those meetings to help all hunters out. They didn't call names, they didn't cuss and shout. They presented facts and stuck to them.

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__________________
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured… but not everyone must prove they are a citizen. Now add this: Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.

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Well Started trust me I know the other side of the coin.
I had a 1,000 acres I hunted on across the road from the house. I deer hunted and coon hunted it back in the 80's. I was one of three people allowed. One day I went to the gate to go in and there was a man standing there. I asked him if I could help him as I was asked to also keep others out. Well he asked me if he could help me and informed me that he had just purchased all that land and there was no hunting on it. I got a very sick feeling that day and I still remember it. I have never ventured on that land since. I have several friends that still hunt it now and I discuss it with them and know the land as well as they do. I just don't venture on it.

Nothing worse than to loose land you hunted on for a long time. I have two clubs I am a member of. One is 14,000 acres and one is 17,000 acres. I stay in one club and never hunt it but have it as a place to fall back on just in case my favorite piece one day goes away and it will.

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Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Well Started trust me I know the other side of the coin.
I had a 1,000 acres I hunted on across the road from the house. I deer hunted and coon hunted it back in the 80's. I was one of three people allowed. One day I went to the gate to go in and there was a man standing there. I asked him if I could help him as I was asked to also keep others out. Well he asked me if he could help me and informed me that he had just purchased all that land and there was no hunting on it. I got a very sick feeling that day and I still remember it. I have never ventured on that land since. I have several friends that still hunt it now and I discuss it with them and know the land as well as they do. I just don't venture on it.

Nothing worse than to loose land you hunted on for a long time. I have two clubs I am a member of. One is 14,000 acres and one is 17,000 acres. I stay in one club and never hunt it but have it as a place to fall back on just in case my favorite piece one day goes away and it will.

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__________________
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured… but not everyone must prove they are a citizen. Now add this: Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.