UKC Forums - Circle trees

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- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Circle trees (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928461211)

Posted by stevwallace on 09-07-2016 03:22 AM:

Had two get out of pigeon coop thru feed hole that wasn't as big as Skoal can.

Posted by Surveyor on 09-07-2016 01:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
I say do away with circle all together. Either plus or minus..I wonder then what kinda dogs will be bred?

The kind of dogs that would be bred would be as silent as possible ambush artests that would fly through the country looking only for a red hot pop up coon because those coon have the highest probability of being found. Anybody that believes in minusing big thick leafy trees or den trees truly lives in a different dimension than me.

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Posted by Surveyor on 09-07-2016 02:19 PM:

Re: Circle trees

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Went last night had two cold bad tracks when we got to the trees I set my stop watch first coon I found it at about the 4 minute mark second one I found it at about 7 1/2 minutes big ole nasty trees makes you wonder when you watch these play by plays of all the kcs hunts they getting struck fairly quickly every cut but circling more trees than not with the lights they got now he should either be there or not jmo!!

Yadkin
Next year there will only be 8 minutes shine time, so if you had a 4 handler cast and you spotted that coon at 7 1/2 minutes, do you think you would have been able to get them all to your location and the majority of them able to see that coon in 30 seconds? If not, in an only plus or minus rule, you'd be back to 0, (225+ and 225-) would you really be interested in playing a game with rules like that?

Posted by pamjohnson on 09-07-2016 02:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Surveyor
The kind of dogs that would be bred would be as silent as possible ambush artests that would fly through the country looking only for a red hot pop up coon because those coon have the highest probability of being found. Anybody that believes in minusing big thick leafy trees or den trees truly lives in a different dimension than me.

in most hunts.in most parts of the country this type dog is out of hearing,there for wouldn't win enough anyway. not to mention he is living on borrowed time with all the highways today.

Posted by Jgarrett on 09-07-2016 09:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rob thompson
Who really cares I don't care if somebody's dog can't tree a coon and racks up some circle points! As long as mine isn't there with it!! It really should bother anybody what another man's dog does.

No coon should = minus points, not circle. Don't know why anyone shouldn't be bothered when a dog doesn't get what's coming to it plus or minus. Let's start circling possums too because there might be a coon up there somewhere. 🙄

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 09-07-2016 09:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jgarrett
No coon should = minus points, not circle. Don't know why anyone shouldn't be bothered when a dog doesn't get what's coming to it plus or minus. Let's start circling possums too because there might be a coon up there somewhere. 🙄

And based on your logic how long before nobody would be showing up? Based on my experience the ones screaming foul for making circle trees are the same guys that are constantly taking 2nd or 3rd tree on these same circle trees.

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Posted by Jgarrett on 09-07-2016 10:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
And based on your logic how long before nobody would be showing up? Based on my experience the ones screaming foul for making circle trees are the same guys that are constantly taking 2nd or 3rd tree on these same circle trees.

From my experience the ones hunting slick treeing idiots are the ones that want to circle every tree in the woods and the ones that don't has a honest strike dog that can tree a coon. I figure the turn out would stay about the same (low). They might even consider buying one of those 90% accurate dogs off the board since they are so plentiful.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 09-08-2016 01:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jgarrett
From my experience the ones hunting slick treeing idiots are the ones that want to circle every tree in the woods and the ones that don't has a honest strike dog that can tree a coon. I figure the turn out would stay about the same (low). They might even consider buying one of those 90% accurate dogs off the board since they are so plentiful.

So your saying every dog you draw out against, you want them to have a coon almost every time they look up? Man, sure sounds like it would be awful hard to win with any regularity with dog power like that.

Posted by bgs2009 on 09-08-2016 02:12 PM:

How about this,.... if you see a small hole in a tree but appears too small for the coon to enter but now you know the tree is hollow and may have another hole that cant be seen such as high up on top of a limb. Is that reason enough to call it a circle?

Another one that bothers me is guys trying to circle an obvious slick which they say the coon crossed out to an adjacent den tree when there is only pencil lead sized limbs even remotely close. Is there a rule of thumb most people use when judging limbs a coon can cross/jump from?

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Posted by yadkintar on 09-08-2016 02:17 PM:

If all dogs are together they will circle anything if you are by yourself and they are behind you are going to get a minus simple as that lol!

Posted by Dan Dogs on 09-08-2016 02:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Darrell Eads
I started back hunting BP and hes 7 for 7 coons found within 2-3 minutes ,

now if you don't think a coon can get thru a Skoal can sized hole you must have them big monster size coon , we have plenty coon that will squeeze in one

I never thought they could either til I squalled a coon out of one. And the worst was when the coon came out it was wider then the tree it was in.

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Posted by dbpro56 on 09-08-2016 02:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
You can count on 2 hands how many slick trees I've been to with my dog in a year and a half. I'm still doubting a coon can fit in such a small hole. I haven't seen it. Not saying the coon wasn't in there but of I was pleasure hunting that night she would've been looking to get under a coon asap.

Coon in N.Y. are typically larger than coon where I hunt! I about got into a fight with a guy, on a pleasure hunt, when my dog treed on a fairly small tree that had a hole about the size of my fist on it! I said it's a den, and that fella told me in no uncertain terms, there's no way a coon can fit in that hole. My uncle tapped on the side of that tree, and that coon looked right at us! By the way, his dogs were out running something other than a coon, when she rolled up treed. I think that is what ticked him off the most. Needless to say, I never hunted with that dude again.

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 09-08-2016 02:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bgs2009
How about this,.... if you see a small hole in a tree but appears too small for the coon to enter but now you know the tree is hollow and may have another hole that cant be seen such as high up on top of a limb. Is that reason enough to call it a circle?

Another one that bothers me is guys trying to circle an obvious slick which they say the coon crossed out to an adjacent den tree when there is only pencil lead sized limbs even remotely close. Is there a rule of thumb most people use when judging limbs a coon can cross/jump from?

well believe what you want, but I was chasing my cows up to the barn one morning to be milked. It was just getting daylight as I watch a sow coon climb a tree about 7-10 yards from a den tree. There was not one limb connecting the two trees, but the sow climbed out so far on a limb the size of my finger to the point she had to hang upside down. And then the limb dropped 3 ft from her weight and she reached out on to a bigger limb on the den tree and went in the hole.

Posted by jc kennels on 09-08-2016 02:58 PM:

Im just getting into the comp hunts but from what i have seen so far everybody wants to circle trees. My magic dog is dead accurate so far with 14 straight coon treed and seen and i havent won a cast yet. So to me a rookie in this sport it seems like the slick handlers are usually the ones wanting to circle a slick tree. As a honest person i would rather minus my dog. I want him to make it on his own. Not me being a slick handler make it for him.

Posted by Rowdy on 09-08-2016 06:02 PM:

JC kennels

It all sounds so noble to say I would rather take minus or I don't want anything handed to me or my dog. The truth and is, your job as a handler is to put as many plus points on the card as you can and avoid giving your dog minus. That means you use the rules to your advantage. That is not cheating.

In baseball foulballs count as strikes unless it's the third strike. No hitter ever walked out of the box and said just count that one as a strike cause I should have hit it.

In this game you take your minus when you have it coming,bad calls, off game, dog leaving tree or quitting track etc. but unless you have x ray vision or a coonhunting monkey there are several trees that will get circled. It's part of it.

90% of the time if the coon is there he can be found. A coon treer will beat circle points every time.

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Posted by jc kennels on 09-08-2016 06:23 PM:

If it is slick its slick. I will prob never be a good handler because of it. Im not gonna say circle it because i dont want my dog to get minus points. With what little bit of time i have been into competition hunting i feel like there are more handles that make dogs nite or grandnites than dogs that make thereself nite or grandnites.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 09-08-2016 07:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jc kennels
If it is slick its slick. I will prob never be a good handler because of it. Im not gonna say circle it because i dont want my dog to get minus points. With what little bit of time i have been into competition hunting i feel like there are more handles that make dogs nite or grandnites than dogs that make thereself nite or grandnites.

I admire your wanting to be honest but I think you are looking at these hunts all wrong. When trees have leaves the majority of them get circled that's just the way it is and it's not being dis honest to circle a tree that no coon is seen in because you "think" you should see it.

My advice to you would be to only hunt in competition hunts when the leaves are off. But if you suggest your dog or mine should get minused on a den tree then please just save your entry money.

Posted by jc kennels on 09-08-2016 09:29 PM:

A den is different. Thats a honest call but walking to 10 trees with no coon seen and 9 of them get circled is completly wrong. I think 80 to 90 percent of coon can be seen if they are there. NOT A DEN TREE. Im not gonna save my entry. I enjoy it and gonna keep doing it. There are gonna be slick people in any sport to gain a advantage. Any thing that is competitive there will be people trying to find the easy way. I have learned to just let people complain because you cant satisfy everybody.

Posted by yadkintar on 09-08-2016 09:37 PM:

I can't count the times that I went home over the years with nothing because my dog did not perform well enough. But I always took pride when I was guiding knowing sombody in my cast had the chance of being high scoring dog of the hunt but if they did it was done by the book.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 09-08-2016 09:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jc kennels
A den is different. Thats a honest call but walking to 10 trees with no coon seen and 9 of them get circled is completly wrong. I think 80 to 90 percent of coon can be seen if they are there. NOT A DEN TREE. Im not gonna save my entry. I enjoy it and gonna keep doing it. There are gonna be slick people in any sport to gain a advantage. Any thing that is competitive there will be people trying to find the easy way. I have learned to just let people complain because you cant satisfy everybody.

JC, the majority of a cast must agree for a tree to be circled. If you are walking to 10 trees and 9 of them are being circled what could your dog possibly be doing to where he isn't beating these types of dogs?

Posted by jc kennels on 09-08-2016 09:41 PM:

Yadkintar pride is hard to find these days. I dont want anything i didnt earn and im sure not giving my dog something he didnt earn. Im the same way during kill season. If he iron outs a tough track and had the meat he gets it. If its a easy one he just gets praised and cast off to the next one.

Posted by JiM on 09-08-2016 10:34 PM:

Yah gotta wonder how many have ever sat down and read over rule 5(a). That is the rule that explains circle trees. A circle tree is a tree where there could be a coon, yet the judge (or majority of the cast under a hunting judge) does not see a coon and no off game is present. So the only thing left to be determined when no coon is seen is COULD A COON BE THERE UNSEEN? It makes not a bit of difference if you think it's there, don't matter if it's a butt whooping tree when pleasure hunting, the rule says if there is anything in that tree that could hide a coon, it's circle tree.
More than once, I have seen my ol buddy Marv Schmucker vote a tree minused and someone pitch a fit and Marv would calmly say "Ok, put your light up there on some place that could hide a coon and I'll circle it" Never saw anyone even put there light back up.
It doesn't matter what you thnk should be minused, it's not about how you'd treat your dog under that tree if it's a pleasure hunt. It's just a matter of could a coon be there or couldn't it? That really is the only question concerning circle trees.

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Posted by Rowdy on 09-08-2016 10:36 PM:

I disagree

Humility is hard to find.

I was not attacking you. If you want to see your coonsor be minuses so be it. I can tell you this, I know several legendary hunters that are uncompromising in the quality of dog they lead that will take minus circle or plus as they come. There is no 100%.

It takes more humility to admit that than pride.

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Posted by Dave Richards on 09-08-2016 10:50 PM:

Jim

Well spoken- excellent example.Enough said! Dave

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Posted by sleepy head on 09-08-2016 11:01 PM:

I've found good sportsmanship easy to find in 95% of the hunts I've been in, been purty proud of most cast members

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