UKC Forums - The All Grand debate

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-08-2016 03:16 PM:

I bet that there are a bunch that are "on their way". There sure is a big difference in "on their way" and getting there.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-08-2016 03:34 PM:

All right I don't guess that anyone is going to do it so here is a start
...... 3 Generation All Grand Males.....

Gr Nt Fickens Deepwoods Rocky
Gr Nt Fickens Grateful Dead Red
Gr Nt Bears Crosscountry Deuce
Gr Nt Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr Nt Watts Flats Jump Em Up Jeb
Gr Nt Jennewein's Heads Creek Moonshine
Gr Nt Nitey Nite Little Red T

Are there any others? That is quite a list to choose from. There are some awfully nice hounds and big winners there. Adam do you still think that All Grand pedigrees don't work?

Posted by Adam Wingler on 08-08-2016 03:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Adam do you still think that All Grand pedigrees don't work?

Easy now, I said in the redbone world it should mean something extra...but in the walker world, it didn't say much more in my experience.

Thanks for the list.

Posted by mmarshall on 08-08-2016 03:49 PM:

it's only cool and a good thing if it's your dog or your dog was used to build the ped just like wins titles and list they are worthless till they have one

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

Posted by mmarshall on 08-08-2016 03:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
All right I don't guess that anyone is going to do it so here is a start
...... 3 Generation All Grand Males.....

Gr Nt Fickens Deepwoods Rocky
Gr Nt Fickens Grateful Dead Red
Gr Nt Bears Crosscountry Deuce
Gr Nt Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr Nt Watts Flats Jump Em Up Jeb
Gr Nt Jennewein's Heads Creek Moonshine
Gr Nt Nitey Nite Little Red T

Are there any others? That is quite a list to choose from. There are some awfully nice hounds and big winners there. Adam do you still think that All Grand pedigrees don't work?

Nighty nite moon
G man
Now list the girls

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-08-2016 04:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
....it's only cool and a good thing if it's your dog....

Easy now, you had better get back to work before you get fired.

I think that I stated up front that I was just jealous. If I ever get or have one I will tell everyone what a great thing it is to have a 4 gen All Grand pedigree. I might even name him "L's All Grand Mark".

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-08-2016 04:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
......Now list the girls.......

I don't have one so I am not going to.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-08-2016 05:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
All right I don't guess that anyone is going to do it so here is a start
...... 3 Generation All Grand Males.....

Gr Nt Fickens Deepwoods Rocky
Gr Nt Fickens Grateful Dead Red
Gr Nt Bears Crosscountry Deuce
Gr Nt Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr Nt Watts Flats Jump Em Up Jeb
Gr Nt Jennewein's Heads Creek Moonshine
Gr Nt Nitey Nite Little Red T

Are there any others? That is quite a list to choose from. There are some awfully nice hounds and big winners there. Adam do you still think that All Grand pedigrees don't work?

I think you are confusing what ukc considers a 3 generation all Grand pedigree with dogs that are actually only 2 gen all grands who can throw offspring who could have a 3 generation all Grand pedigree....
When ukc recognized the first 3 generation all Grand litter in 1999...each parent was a grand Nite and they had 3 generations of Grand Nites behind each parent. To my knowledge there is only one actual 3 generation all Grand redbone who is also a Grand Nite herself and that's Grand Nite Champion Outlaw Billy Jean and there is only one actual 4 generation all Grand redbone (that's 32 consecutive grand nites preceding it) and that's her son Dual Grand Champion All Grand Outlaw G-Man.
Many people throw the term around lightly...but when the first litter with a three generation all Grand pedigree was recognized by ukc....it was because there were 14 consecutive grand night ancestors behind each parent.
So to answer Adam's original question...there has only been two true three generations all grand litters produced that "actually" went on to produce Grand Nite Off Spring.....the cross between Outlaw Jesse James and Little Girl II back in the late 90's that produced two Dual Grands in Outlaw JJ jr and Outlaw Jack.....and then the cross in 2010 between Outlaw Billy The Kid x Nighty Nite Amber which produced Grand Nite Champion Outlaw Billy Jean and several other Nt.Ch. offspring that are on their way to making grand and have some big wins under their belts.
Then in 2013 I bred Outlaw Billy Jean to Outlaw JJ jr and when G Man finished to Grand Nite he became the first 4 generation all Grand pedigreed redbone in history....and since his mother is....as of yet the only living 3 generation all Grand redbone who could produce another 4 generation all Grand redbone and no male out there living or dead could do the same...it may be years before we see another true 4 generation all Grand redbone like Outlaw G Man hit the scene. So to answer Adam's question....there are two examples of true 3 generation all Grand redbone crosses that have actually produced litters of offspring that have also went on to make Grand Nite Champion and one example of a 4 generation all Grand crosses which produced a Grand...
Outlaw Jesse James x Wrights Little Girl II - produced 2 Dual grands
Outlaw Billy The Kid x Nighty Nite Amber - produced 1 Grand Nite & 2 or 3 Nt.Ch.
Outlaw Jesse James Jr x Outlaw Billy Jean - produced 1 Dual Grand and 1 Nt.Ch. .....so far.
So does it work? Does it produce more Grand Nites at a higher rate than other crosses? Is the common denominator all the consecutive Grand Nites in their pedigrees...or the fact that they are predominantly line bred from the same line of related dogs?
You be the judge...
Like I said before...when these crosses were made there were very few studs and dams that could ever hope to throw an all Grand litter....but in the past few years there are more and more options available to choose from who can...and they are not all from the Outlaw line so hopefully we will see more true 3 generation all grands from other lines appear in the next few years. I hope so...because I would love to find one that is also a good match in traits and ability for Billy Jean so she could have a chance to play a part in the next generation of true 4 generation all Grand redbones. Good luck everyone!

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by jkhutch on 08-08-2016 08:44 PM:

Not to through a wrench into the mix of things. I think all grand pedigrees are great and all. It looks good on paper and everthing, but i think there are alot of great Competition dogs out there that has never even see a UKC hunt or may only see a few in there lifetime. I know I have hunted with quite a few "All Grand" dogs and they dont really seem to be any better than some of these "Registered" Dogs that have 2k to 3k money won on them .

Do the "All Grand" titles really mean as much as they used to?? What I mean is there are several more options to go on Friday or Saturday nights. Look how many different registries there are!! To me, its all about choices and time. Just from experience, it was alot easier to Grand a dog out when all you did was UKC hunt on weekends. I know its makes alot more sense to me these days to try to go win some cash than a slip of paper. For example, back a month or so ago I went to 3 UKC hunts over a period of two weekends. I won all three cast but didnt get crap for them because my cast didnt have enough score to place first in the Nt Ch division. So the same week I went to 2 $KC hunts and won both cast and walked away $126.00 in two nights. You tell me what makes more sense??

Many years ago and even just a few years agos when I started competition hunting. The UKC hunts were huge in my area. They hunted about as many dogs at my local club on a friday night than they do at our UKC Redbones days today. I saw a picture with some of the people back from 15 to 20 years ago at our club and we would have 60 to 70 dogs show up a UKC hunt. Just from 5 years ago I looked and we had between 20 to 40. I went to a couple local UKC hunts about three weeks ago and they had like 10 to 20 dogs, usually about 2 cast for each division. Maybe its not like this in all the areas, but I'm guessing its gonna be about the same. I would say its easier to "title" a dog that it was a few years ago.

So to me that "title" chasing is not as important anymore. I would rather see a NtCh with $1000.00 won on him/her in the other registry, than an "All Grand" Pedigree with no money won on them?? I think the top choice would be a better more consistant cast winner in my opinon. I know that every area is different so I guess a person may want to research the area the dog came from when making decisions. I know I have called club members and talked to people in an area of a dog to get hunts reports when inquiring about it, I like to get hunt numbers and score card reports for the whole cast that the dog was in, then make my determination from there. There is alot of info from a score card you can see about a dog if you know how to read between the lines. If a dog is "Granded" with little or no competition because of low hunt numbers in that area then a title doenst mean a whole lot to me.

This is just my personal opinion and I know that everyone has there own. I guess it just depends on what you are into. Good Luck to everyone no matter what you are doing just keep em in the woods!!

__________________
Jared Hutcheson
Indiana
Redbones:
GRNTCH PKC Ch PR Hutch's Big Walnut Boone HTX DNA-V(Haze X Reba)-
2 Time UKC World Top 100
UKC World Top 20 (13th)
UKC Purina Redbone of the year
PKC Redbone CH
UKC Top Producers List
UKC Winter Classic High Scoring Redbone
Co owned with Richard Lambert

GrNtCh PKC Ch One Chance Fancy- (Boone X Toadie)
2018 Autumn Oaks Grand 16
2018 Grand National Redbone
2018 Redbones Days RQE 1st Place

Walkers-
NTCh PKC CH Jeb�s Finley River Peanut- Co owned with Bishop Stallcop
Claremont PKC Legacy hunt Final 4
PKC Breeders Showcase Final 4

Posted by wbond on 08-08-2016 08:57 PM:

Six Generation all Grand

That's my goal the walker dogs can produce em so will the Reds ?

__________________
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have"

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"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
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Posted by mmarshall on 08-08-2016 09:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkhutch
If a dog is "Granded" with little or no competition because of low hunt numbers in that in that area then a title doenst mean a whole lot to me.
[/B]

Oh my goodness I posted saying this same thing about reproducers list and ntch one time richard had half the board wanting to hang me from my toes and tar and feather me in 15 min flat I hope richard don't see this lol 😂😂😂
I agree though they need to prove there better then just the local half dozen dogs

Posted by elvis on 08-08-2016 11:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkhutch
If a dog is "Granded" with little or no competition because of low hunt numbers in that area then a title doenst mean a whole lot to me.

agreed
if don't take much of a dog to title out in little back yard hunts with little or no competition. if you watch the book you can see some big name guys doing exactly that.
don't be fooled by titles.

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 08-08-2016 11:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
agreed
if don't take much of a dog to title out in little back yard hunts with little or no competition. if you watch the book you can see some big name guys doing exactly that.
don't be fooled by titles.

I gotta agree, but lots of guys don't live where the big hunts are, for some of us its 8 to 12 hr drive one way, and those money hunts, can't you win money without see a coon? lol-
So those older semon all Gr dogs mean more to me, back then most all hunts had 40 to 85 dogs in the local hunts, meant a lot more then.
and I don't mean to knock any mans all gr dog

__________________
Herschel Burt

hershtwo@yahoo.com
Life member NRA
Current dogs
GR CH NT CH RED MIGHTY 90-Bo/Sierra
NT.CH.GR CH BEYOND BILLY HTX --Billy the Kid/ Amber
GR CH 1ST & 2ND place wins 90/4 LIFE GUN-HTX==-Willy BOY/Bigtime Britt
Dogs I have owned
Nt ch Gr ch HERSHS HUNTIN RED IKE
NT CH CH HERSHS HUNTIN BUDDY
GR NT CH MILLERS DIRTY RED
NT CH CH LYNN'S CREEK JULIE
GR CH HERSHS HUNTIN RED KATE
CH NITE CH AMBRAW RIVER TIMBER ROCK
NT CH HERSHS HUNTIN RED CLEM
NT CH ROCKY TOP CHERRY

Posted by jkhutch on 08-08-2016 11:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
agreed
if don't take much of a dog to title out in little back yard hunts with little or no competition. if you watch the book you can see some big name guys doing exactly that.
don't be fooled by titles.

Hey Elvis,
My favorite are those females and males that title out really quick and then never heard from again except on papers behind pups. Most of these dogs never leave the pen again. I would say this accounts for a big percentage of these "All Grand" litters. These are dogs that probably never deserved it in the first place, but we're titled out in one and two dog cast. I've seen this before as well. My buddy bought a Nt Ch walker dog that was "All Grand" and the guy said she would tree her own coon. The dog was hunted several times and we tried to make it go but, it would never leave are feet until something else treed. Now I wander how this "titled" female got her title.
I guess the best thing to do is if they are available is go hunt with these "All Grand" dogs in these pedigrees on a 1 on 1 basis. That's really the only way to tell if they are worthy of it

.

Mark,

I thought Richard liked to keep things stirred up

Hersh,
I like to see everyone's perspective on this. That a good way to look at it. I don't see many of these "All Grand" pups winning 30k or 40k either. I definitely agree about those dogs from the past. I couldn't imagine how hard it was to Grand a dog years ago.

Adam,
I've worked a lot the last couple of weeks and just got a chance to catch up on your post. Everyone has had some really good comments. Great job.

Posted by Muckey on 08-09-2016 12:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkhutch
If a dog is "Granded" with little or no competition because of low hunt numbers in that area then a title doenst mean a whole lot to me.

Well that's the only way I win!😊😊😊 At the bigger hunts the All Grand dogs keep beating me.

I always love reading these threads. There is a lot of good information in them.

__________________
GR NT CH Morans Midnite Red Ryder HTX (NT CH Little River Rock x NT CH All Night Delusion)
Muckey's Hardluck Hoss (GR NT CH Perkey's Night Stalker Bruiser x GR NT CH Perkey's Night Stalker Red Lexie)
Muck mountain Tinker ( GR NT CH Moonlight Outlaw Mac x GR NT CH Moonlight KY Trip )
Hardluck Ridge Moon (deceased) (CH GRNTCH 'PR' KY MOONLIGHT WOODY x GRNITECH'PR'PERKEY'S NIGHT STALKER SERRA)
NT CH Muckey's Logan(deceased)RIP
NT CH GR CH Muckey's Bawlin Bo(deceased)RIP ( GR NT South Branch Midnite Pete- #7 Historical Top Producer x GR FCH GR CH Lash's Keystone Red Jenny)

Posted by Crazy Luke on 08-09-2016 12:36 AM:

Be glad to

I would be glad to come to anyone's place, buy a hunting license,carry a gun and shoot every coon we tree to prove my dog. Oh and we got to hunt your private spots, no state land garbage.. Got enough of that here. And she hunts alone for five nights. Nearest RQE 4 hours. Nearest local hunt 1.5 hours. then 2 hours. Her brother proved himself. Been looking for someone reliable that wants to win some $KC money. 13 hours to Autumn Oaks, 14 hours to Bellevue MI NRCA. 10 hours to Grand American. Never had any takers on the coon hunting spots. I will do what I can with what I got. Good luck to all the guys no matter the circumstance. I hear that Northern Ohio has got coon like grapes hanging in the trees. Lucas

Posted by mmarshall on 08-09-2016 12:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkhutch

Mark,

I thought Richard liked to keep things stirred up

. [/B]

Yes he does and I hear he's bad about it too 😛

I'd've never owned one or have I tryed to make a all grand litter but I've owned coon dogs that's been in them in more then one breed and I don't have plans to make one at this time
But that don't mean they wont make top coon dogs and it's not a shore thing either
I'm shore not going make a judgement when there is only two living in this breed
I have and I'm shore many others have hunted with some that I wouldn't want but I've hunted with just as many that showed me coon and did a nice job doing it in other breeds
But if I was new to the breed and couldn't hunt with all 14 dogs in the ped and my choose was a pup from a all grand litter and a litter with 7 Grnt males and 7 pr females I'd take my chances with the all grand
And like I said earlyer in this thread as it is in many things in life it isn't never a cool thing when just a few have it

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-09-2016 01:06 AM:

It's funny how eveyone tries to tear down and pick apart something because they don't have it....
It's also funny that some of these dogs who made Grand in smaller hunts...because that's all there was around on those weekends as they continued on their winning streak also went on to win lots of other big hunts afterwards. Some people just like to go to a hunt every weekend...regardless of whether it's big or small. A dog can only beat 3 other dogs at a time if I remember right. As I have said before...most of the dogs in my dogs all Grand pedigrees did a lot more than just make Grand nite....I'd say over 80% also won other big hunts like breed days, Purina points or placed in top 20 of world championships. You don't do that with dogs who only made Grand because they can only win where there is little to no competition. I travel all over the country and my dogs win their share wherever I take em big or small. I don't have a crystal ball to tell me which hunts will have big entries and I don't sit out hunts for weeks or months waiting on a big hunt to come around. When you have a dog that is looking good...you better hit the road and compete with it for as long as that hot streak lasts....because they don't last forever!

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-09-2016 01:32 AM:

I guess it boils down to what do people need to be satisfied with when they want to breed to a dog or buy a pup. It's always nice to be able to go and hunt with the parents or the stud....but most people can't do that...and it wouldn't be fair to judge a dog on one night anyway. So what other options are there...
Titles
Big win list
Other people's opinions
That's about it for choices...so which takes the luck factor out of the equation and which takes individual opinion (which can be very unreliable) out of the equation?
Personally I have seen common dogs look like million dollar dogs once or twice in their lifetime and if you went by the opinions of those there who witnessed it but never hunted with the dog before or after...well, that might lead people astray. I have also seen some of the best dogs night after night have bad nights on occasion and the people in the cast developed a low opinion of the dog that doesn't fit with what people who hunt with it night in and night out know to be true.
But titles are the result of many wins in competition compiled over time. You don't get lucky and make a grand Nite by winning one or two hunts where you were able to guide and judge in your own back yard. If I were looking at studs or parents of a pup I wanted to buy...I would look at titles and win lists and follow the trail of where the hunts were won...how consistent were the wins coming ( almost every weekend or one or two a year for 4-5 years )
Did the dog grand at a young age...we're any of the wins at big hunts or did it win at any big hunts after it granded and the competition level went up? Did the dog win in multiple states under multiple registries and hunt formats?
These are the kind of things that will paint an accurate picture of a dog that you cannot personally hunt with.

Posted by jkhutch on 08-09-2016 02:41 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw

But titles are the result of many wins in competition compiled over time. You don't get lucky and make a grand Nite by winning one or two hunts where you were able to guide and judge in your own back yard. If I were looking at studs or parents of a pup I wanted to buy...I would look at titles and win lists and follow the trail of where the hunts were won...how consistent were the wins coming ( almost every weekend or one or two a year for 4-5 years )
Did the dog grand at a young age...we're any of the wins at big hunts or did it win at any big hunts after it granded and the competition level went up? Did the dog win in multiple states under multiple registries and hunt formats?
These are the kind of things that will paint an accurate picture of a dog that you cannot personally hunt with.

Well spoken.

Posted by Chris Snyder on 08-09-2016 03:01 AM:

If You Don't Know the Dog

You better know the man.

If you see an all-grand dog owned by a top notch hunter who wins the right way and has a good reputation in his breed as a good competitor but an honest guy, and demonstrates that by the way they conduct themselves in a nite hunt, then to me there isn't a thing that is wrong with that.

Most of the best dogs I have ever seen hunt were not all grand dogs. That doesn't mean those all-grand dogs are not good dogs, that just means that I haven't been to town all that much.

I think it's a noble endeavor for a breeder, but far from the most important thing that someone like me would shoot for or even look for. That is just me. I'd hold nothing against a top notch hound no matter what is on his papers.

Posted by Adam Wingler on 08-09-2016 03:13 AM:

Backyard, front yard, side yard, behind the barn or out of the kitchen, a grand nite still isn't a joke to me nor should it be to any "working stiff" who does it predominantly on his own, but that is ONLY without the aid of a heavy pencil. Of course a win at a bigger hunt is a huge plus and plays a major role on studs and dams for me as well. But let's look at another angle on that point. I'll use myself, if I owned a world beater, could I be the one pushing him/her all over the country? Money is one thing but time is another...and I get 4 weeks of paid vacation 😆. So if I owned one that could put a whipping on most at any compass point on the map, well, he might not get that opportunity unless somebody with super deep pockets offered me some stupid money and they did the running. So y'all may never know just how many big hunts he could win, I would think though with the right pedigree behind him and those GRNT titles you'd still take notice much quicker than a regular ole 'PR' dog...even if it was done here local.

So titles are a big deal to way more than not. For example, to the breeders, how many people always flippin ask if they are SS??? Even in the red world? Now go look at how many SS reds actually go to a SS. So can a title simply be a selling point as well? Sure, but to me not so much in this little world of redbones...not yet anyhow.

Posted by Black Ash Bawl on 08-09-2016 10:39 AM:

the all grand debate

....................Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. Amos' Burning Ben
..........Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy The Kid
....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Key's Outlaw Jessie

((( Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac ))) 8th place & 2015 ACHA World Champion Redbone

....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Montana Red Mountain Ranger
..........Gr.Nt.Ch. Ky Moonlight Kate
....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Kate

PUPS

....................Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. T-Top Rabble Rouser
..........Gr.Nt.Ch.Ch. Ficken's Deepwoods Rocky
....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Thomas Midnight Music

GR.Nt Ch Feldmann's Red Roxie

....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Hoyle Creek Red Rowdy
..........Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch.Williams Brushy Creek Daisy
....................Gr.Nt.Ch. Ch. Bomber's Y2K-D
I just bought a pup from this cross... if you are going train a pup you might as well start with the best bloodlines you can find.. IF ANY ONE ON HERE HAS A LITTEMATE AND WANTS TO COMPARE NOTES AS WE TRAIN ARE PUPS PM ME AND WE CAN EXCHANGE EMAIL ADDRESSES..I LIVE NEAR GREENBAY , WI...

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-09-2016 03:02 PM:

Oh my goodness, I don't know how to count. I didn't realize that there were "true" All Grands and "just" All Grands. I wish that someone had explained that from the start.

The people that don't think much of All Grand Pedigrees are the ones that have never had one. And the people that like them are the ones that have had one or have bred one. Isn't it funny how that works.

The same goes for the Reproducers list. Mr Marshall, at the time, I had a dog on that list.

The same goes for a Grand Nite Champion. The people that have not hunted/finished a dog to Grand Night Champion are the ones talking about how easy it is. In 25 years I have "helped" to finish 3 or 4 and it sure wasn't easy. I still haven't been able to finish Wendy. But then, maybe my dogs just weren't/aren't that good. Or maybe it is my handling.

Oh, by the way, y'all need to give Jeff Murphy a call and tell him how easy it is to make a dog a Grand Nite Champion.

Posted by JShelton on 08-09-2016 04:54 PM:

I have one. And he is a pain in the butt. Just like the ones ive owned out of two pr dogs or one tirled dog and a pr dog. But if im looking to buy a pup I want as many titled dogs in that ped as possible. Ill be the first to tell ya I like the way it looks and I will more than lilely take a gamble on that than anything. Thats the way I pick my scratchoff tickets too. Go with what catches my eye. And yes I will sale my dog.

__________________
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