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Re: sportsmanship

quote:
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Originally posted by Daniel Fitzko
there are four in a cast not one.
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I have to ask who's being unsportsmanlike?



If the dogs are lets say 50 yards apart then thats understandable but 700 hundred ,thats too much and plus dogs c and d haven't treeed yet. Be considerate and go to dog A's tree since it was treed first and help shine for his coon then move on to B. Now tell me who is unsportsmanlike in this situation if handler of dog B is not wanting to stay with the cast.

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Dog B

If I was handling Dog B , I would have treed he or she and and went to dog A's tree and scored it , by that time my tree time would have been up and and chance dog c and d backed dog B up and we go in with Dog B under a coon then dog c and d would be minused because they didn't get treed in.

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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
There are times when splitting up cant be avoided, now that the rules allow the scoreing of trees in the most convenient order its not as bad as it used to be when they always had to be scored in order. My only point was that it is foolish to deny a handler his right to go handle his dog until his tree is closed when it is a 10 minute walk to where the dog is treed. Just a waste of everybudys hunt time.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
John, the rule is clear that you cannot score out of order unless all dogs are treed and it was stated that this was a four dog cast with dogs C and D still trailing so you cannot score out of order. Just forget that. We also know that the cast can't split up under any circumstance with the loan exception of handling at a split tree and we also know you cannot handle until the tree is closed. That covers this situation. Your convince does not overrule these rules

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Also, this may just be me, but I'm only gona walk to my dogs tree once. I'm not walkin in to handle him then meet back up with cast, score another tree, the go back to him. IMO that wastes times they gota wait on me and it don't make sense to do all that walkin for the same results.

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Re: Split tree ?

quote:

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Originally posted by DFred
Dog A is declared treed 300 yards to the north of the cast. Shortly after, Dog B is declared treed 700 yards to the south. Dogs C and D are struck but not treeing. Five's are running on A and B. At this point does judge allow the Handler of Dog B to start walking towards the dog in order to handle it when the five is up? How should judge handle this situation?

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In that scenario I think the cast should all go to dog A's tree together then go to B's tree. If each person had a spectator maybe you could work something out. I really don't like anyone going to a dog alone. What if it's on a slick and handler ties him to a den, or even missed a coon by a couple trees and handler puts him on it. It just gives to many oppurtunitys to cheat. I hate Being in dog B's shoes but shucks if your dog can't stay put you don't need to be entering in a hunt. Plus what if dog A's tree is a controversial tree and the 4th voter could make the difference.

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John, how would not sending dog B's handler to his tree slow down scoring? He is not going to return to the cast to help them score. He would be 1000 yards from them. They would be finished and headed to him before he got there even in flat wide open teritory.

The way Jim described it is how it needs to be handled. When the 5 is up if the handler decides to go to his tree or not is up to him. Personally I'm staying with the cast. I learned my lesson a long time ago about that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
It's just me but if I am split and I got to go to anouther dogs tree first ( and I am going I am going to see if they got anything or not ) I wait till I have to tree the last minute and tree to leash lock them and make them lead to me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by joey
John, how would not sending dog B's handler to his tree slow down scoring? He is not going to return to the cast to help them score. He would be 1000 yards from them. They would be finished and headed to him before he got there even in flat wide open teritory.

The way Jim described it is how it needs to be handled. When the 5 is up if the handler decides to go to his tree or not is up to him. Personally I'm staying with the cast. I learned my lesson a long time ago about that.

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Unless I am reading it wrong 11b says if all dogs are treed you don't release dogs.

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Unless I am reading it wrong 11b says if all dogs are treed you don't release dogs.

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So can handler B demand to go handle his dog because the 5 will be up by the time he gets there? Can the judge tell him no? Split rule says Judge shall, scratch rule says handler will be scratched for leaving without judges permission.

So my dog (A) is treed close to the same time as your dog (B) I am at my tree in 5min. now you are 700yd away it summer time so we use the full 10 min. and still have to walk another 15 to 25 min.( depends if you have a chain smoker in the cast that can't walk) to get to your dog ??? it 85 degrees
My dog trees a total of 15min.
Your dog trees a total of 40min
NOT A CHANCE!

Dogs A and B are split. Dogs C and D trailing. Five is up on dog A so cast headed to him,I am handler of Dog B. When my 5 is up I am going to my dog right then and there. You all score dog A however you want I will see you at my tree. No need for me to walk further than I need and if 3 grown men can't handle it 4 sure can't.

How is this simple rule causing a problem. When the 5 is up go handle your dog. If you are worried they may cheat you go with them to their tree and don't go handle yours. But,if you that worried about being cheated I would find a new sport.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mark V.
So my dog (A) is treed close to the same time as your dog (B) I am at my tree in 5min. now you are 700yd away it summer time so we use the full 10 min. and still have to walk another 15 to 25 min.( depends if you have a chain smoker in the cast that can't walk) to get to your dog ??? it 85 degrees
My dog trees a total of 15min.
Your dog trees a total of 40min
NOT A CHANCE!

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JiM
The rules say the cast is to stay together at all times during hunt time. The only exception to that is the judge can give permission to handle a dog at a split tree when that tree closes. Until that dogs tree is closed, the cast must stay together. Also, the cast is to make an effort to be at dog A's tree when the five is up. That means handler B must walk away from his dog until his dogs tree is dead. That is how I understand the rule. [/QUOTE
X2 and if you do not arrive at dog A's tree before the 5 is up on dog B dog B's handler is allowed to go handle his dog . Judge can send someone or send him alone . Dog B's handler does not go to him until his 5 is up
Someday you all will start listening to Jim .

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quote:

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Originally posted by DFred
So can handler B demand to go handle his dog because the 5 will be up by the time he gets there? Can the judge tell him no? Split rule says Judge shall, scratch rule says handler will be scratched for leaving without judges permission.

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The handler can go go to his dog after 5 and only after 5 if he is second dog treed. If judge says scratch,simply put a ? On the card and any MOH that knows the rules will overturn the scratch.

DO NOT BE AFRAID TO GO HANDLE YOUR DOG AFTER THE FIVE IS UP.

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Dog A has all the priority because he was treed first. Until dog B's tree closes, that handler must stay with the cast and walk to dog A's tree. If dog B's tree closes before the cast begins shining dog A's tree, that handler can go handle his dog. If the cast is shining dog A's before dog B closes, he is stuck with the cast till dog A's tree is scored. That's how I understand the rule. I don't think the judge can allow handler B to leave the cast until dog B's tree closes but of course, I could be wrong about that.

There have always been situations in UKC where your dog is behind and gaining fast and you find the hunt time burning off in large chunks while you walk around scoring other dogs.
There has always been situations where you are behind and you have to walk away from your dog when you really want to be walking to him.
Theses are some of the differences between pleasure hunting and comp hunting. You can't pick the comp hunt and act like your pleasure huhting.

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quote:

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Originally posted by high ridge
Dogs A and B are split. Dogs C and D trailing. Five is up on dog A so cast headed to him,I am handler of Dog B. When my 5 is up I am going to my dog right then and there. You all score dog A however you want I will see you at my tree. No need for me to walk further than I need and if 3 grown men can't handle it 4 sure can't.

How is this simple rule causing a problem. When the 5 is up go handle your dog. If you are worried they may cheat you go with them to their tree and don't go handle yours. But,if you that worried about being cheated I would find a new sport.

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quote:

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Originally posted by high ridge
Dogs A and B are split. Dogs C and D trailing. Five is up on dog A so cast headed to him,I am handler of Dog B. When my 5 is up I am going to my dog right then and there. You all score dog A however you want I will see you at my tree. No need for me to walk further than I need and if 3 grown men can't handle it 4 sure can't.

How is this simple rule causing a problem. When the 5 is up go handle your dog. If you are worried they may cheat you go with them to their tree and don't go handle yours. But,if you that worried about being cheated I would find a new sport.

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high ridge

in this situation, you can not.

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I can,when my 5 is up and we are not shining a tree I can go to my dog.i may have to proceed toward dog A tree but as my 5 expires I can do an about face and go leash my dog.

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Dog A

Dog A's tree is scored first then Dog B. The cast has to stay together or face a scratch offense.

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