UKC Forums - Anouther can of worms ?

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-- Anouther can of worms ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928442146)

Posted by msinc on 02-03-2016 12:45 PM:

Back to the original question...I don't care who trained, bred or fed the dog. If I find the right dog for a reasonable price he's coming home with me and I have no problems giving credit where it is due.
I like the three young dogs I have now and it's because of careful breeding and a job well done by the guys I got them from. I would recommend a trainer just a fast as I would recommend any of these breeders.
I will ask this question in a different way...if you found exactly what you have been looking for for a long time and the price was right for you are you telling us that you would you pass on the dog just because it was trained by someone else???
Don't get me wrong, I would very much prefer to be able to tell everyone that the best dog I have is one I bred and trained right here, but if not being able to say that still means I have a fantastic above average dog then that's okay too.

Posted by shadinc on 02-03-2016 02:33 PM:

I have no desire to own a dog trained by someone else. I've been at this for over fifty years and never bought a trained dog. I always had a dog that could tree a coon. My favorite part of coon hunting is hunting a pup in his first year.

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 02-03-2016 02:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
In the woods hunting with off spring of Proven big winners. I've yet to hunt with off spring of a power house dog that was as good or better than it's sire or dam( which ever was the proven dog). Most of them are common at best. I've seen far better offspring from avg dogs with smart breeding.

There are plenty of your "power house" dogs that reproduce.

Bone Collector
Mojo
Sunrise
Hardwood Henry
Wipeout Zach
Wipeout Zeb Again
Wipeout Zeb 3
Stylish Clover
Skuna River Fred
Hubs Homer
White River Tar Nailor
Cutter
Big D
Slow Talkin Buzz
Mr. Jack

I mean how many do you want me to list!?!?

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Posted by chip johnson on 02-03-2016 03:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
Back to the original question...I don't care who trained, bred or fed the dog. If I find the right dog for a reasonable price he's coming home with me and I have no problems giving credit where it is due.
I like the three young dogs I have now and it's because of careful breeding and a job well done by the guys I got them from. I would recommend a trainer just a fast as I would recommend any of these breeders.
I will ask this question in a different way...if you found exactly what you have been looking for for a long time and the price was right for you are you telling us that you would you pass on the dog just because it was trained by someone else???
Don't get me wrong, I would very much prefer to be able to tell everyone that the best dog I have is one I bred and trained right here, but if not being able to say that still means I have a fantastic above average dog then that's okay too.

I have bought many pups from other people's bloodlines all over the U.S. but I will not buy a trained dog because I like starting and hunting pups.

Posted by River Birch Run on 02-06-2016 02:53 PM:

Name some that don't have over 100 pups on the ground. You can take a back yard dog and put 400 pups on the ground and get the same thing.

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Posted by msinc on 02-06-2016 03:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
Name some that don't have over 100 pups on the ground. You can take a back yard dog and put 400 pups on the ground and get the same thing.

You got a good point...gets back to the old question, what makes a fantastic reproducer so fantastic??? Promotion??? Who spent the most money. Performance??? You are not getting the dog himself, only a puppy. Some of the best dogs I have ever seen were back yard dogs with not much of anything {title wise} in their pedigree.

I too like and prefer to start, raise and train dogs I get as a puppy. A puppies first year in the woods is definitely not something I want to miss, but I will not pass up the right dog either if it comes along. If you get right down to it I guess if hunting a dog someone else trained bothered me that much I could always lie. I mean, how many people really know who trained a dog??? It just isn't that big of a deal.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-06-2016 03:26 PM:

The two I have in my back yard and the only two I own they we're both born back there one is 8 yrs old one is 15 months old out of her and she was bred back to her grandpa to get him ( seman pup ) on the other hand I have owned more Grntchs an ntchs and $$$ winners than I can count but when I was competing heavy it was easyer and cheaper in the long run just to go buy a winner they got where they were not winning next !!!!

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 02-06-2016 07:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
Name some that don't have over 100 pups on the ground. You can take a back yard dog and put 400 pups on the ground and get the same thing.

All your "power house" dogs get bred to so they are going to have over 100 pups, but here is a few off the top of my head.

PCH Mr. Overdrive
GCH Abbeys last trip
PCH Parsleys Wipeout Jake
PCH Stylish Trader
PCH Power Pack
PCH Big Money

Posted by Jason Baldwin on 02-07-2016 03:34 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I geuss I will go a little off my topic I go to church not really tried to do right till 5 yrs ago but just because we go to church don't mean we don't make mistakes you have to find a church and a preacher that takes the word strait out of the bible for instance we have a man that is not a nice man I knew it for years but there was a time in my life I wasent either so when he was introduced as going to start leading the youth I thought who am I to judge he has a duck hunting lease ( paid hunting) let the youth skeet shoot cooked hamburgers ect for a while then started missing church so a fine teen age man my fishing buddy's grandson ( plays the mandolin in church ) got permision to hunt next door to his hunting buisness so him and a buddy invite the young man to lunch when he gets there he gives him a cussin f bombing him when I heard the old Robert Hitt wanted to come out but I did somthing different I prayed about it first and I got instant peace a sombody said I got this one big boy !!!! You get were I am going you may be the reason I started this thread !!!

amen

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Posted by Jason Baldwin on 02-07-2016 03:39 AM:

We as coon hunters focus on the end results and rarely ever look in depth enough to see what the reasons are and all the situations that made it all happen. No dog hauls itself to the hunts and no dog hauls itself to the woods.

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Posted by River Birch Run on 02-07-2016 01:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
All your "power house" dogs get bred to so they are going to have over 100 pups, but here is a few off the top of my head.

PCH Mr. Overdrive
GCH Abbeys last trip
PCH Parsleys Wipeout Jake
PCH Stylish Trader
PCH Power Pack
PCH Big Money

Your naming all $kc dogs were you don't have to see a coon to win cast after cast and add up the $$$$. Those are dogs that have the money behind them to be put in a hunt 4 or 5 nites a week. Jake is the real deal for sure, the dog lives 40 min from me. I hope he throws the same in his pups, time will tell. What are some UKC dogs that have won big hunts yr after yr and go on to throw pups that won more than they did, and became a bigger name then there sire or dam?

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Posted by Steve Raleigh on 02-07-2016 10:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
Your naming all $kc dogs were you don't have to see a coon to win cast after cast and add up the $$$$. Those are dogs that have the money behind them to be put in a hunt 4 or 5 nites a week. Jake is the real deal for sure, the dog lives 40 min from me. I hope he throws the same in his pups, time will tell. What are some UKC dogs that have won big hunts yr after yr and go on to throw pups that won more than they did, and became a bigger name then there sire or dam?

I don't know what you getting at as far as a UKC dog?? I mean all these dogs are titled out in ukc...I am unaware of any "ukc dog" in this country....probably once they are finished out in ukc which is simple and takes little effort they are done hunting ukc because there's nothing to hunt for and the owners really don't care about ukc.

Posted by Levi Hawk on 02-07-2016 10:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
Your naming all $kc dogs were you don't have to see a coon to win cast after cast and add up the $$$$. Those are dogs that have the money behind them to be put in a hunt 4 or 5 nites a week. What are some UKC dogs that have won big hunts yr after yr and go on to throw pups that won more than they did, and became a bigger name then there sire or dam?

I would think the local dogs would always beat these money dogs at every big hunt if they couldn't tree coons based off what you're saying.

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Posted by Cheyenne on 02-08-2016 09:23 PM:

I've hunted with $20,000 plus hounds, world champs, National champs, with my ole plugs and walked away more than once thinking "how in the world those dogs win them titles, let alone a cast", things that make you go hum!

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Posted by Steve Raleigh on 02-08-2016 10:24 PM:

Not really wanting to turn the topic in which dogs/kennel club is better or what have you, I just wanted to debate Rebecca's comment b/c I truly feel there are good reproducers that are stomp down coon dogs.

Posted by GA DAWG on 02-08-2016 11:23 PM:

Most grntch couldnt win our local pkc hunt.

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Posted by River Birch Run on 02-09-2016 12:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
Not really wanting to turn the topic in which dogs/kennel club is better or what have you, I just wanted to debate Rebecca's comment b/c I truly feel there are good reproducers that are stomp down coon dogs.

I'm sure there are, I have not hunted with any as of yet. I have hunted with many fine Walkers. Just haven't hunted with any big winners that I felt threw offspring better than they were. I have hunted with big winners that did there winning based on there handler. That threw offspring that was better than them, however. But what you call a power house dog and what I call a power house dog could be different.

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Posted by moonshine man on 02-09-2016 02:56 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by River Birch Run
[B] Just haven't hunted with any big winners that I felt threw offspring better than they were. I have hunted with big winners that did there winning based on there handler. That threw offspring that was better than them, however.
Thats sort of saying yes an no at the same time,when the offspring comes out better no where will it say because of handler,an im not disagreeing with what you have posted so far on reproducers because most dont.

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Posted by River Birch Run on 02-10-2016 12:53 AM:

What I was trying to say is there are dogs that win and win big, or a lot of money. That are not coondogs. They win because of there handler. Or maybe because there a babble mouth cover dog. Some people would call a dog like that a power house dog. I would not. But I have seen dogs that won like that throw off spring that were nice dogs and didn't need help to win.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 02-10-2016 01:11 AM:

Only difference is work would not be so hectic, and I could take the one I have to town more.

I would buy a nice female though, I'd say stylish Bella would have my name on her papers.

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Posted by JiM on 02-10-2016 03:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
What I was trying to say is there are dogs that win and win big, or a lot of money. That are not coondogs. They win because of there handler. Or maybe because there a babble mouth cover dog. Some people would call a dog like that a power house dog. I would not. But I have seen dogs that won like that throw off spring that were nice dogs and didn't need help to win.

Sorry, I don't believe that. A dog that ain't a coondog, ain't winning the big stuff no matter who is on its leash. Those counterfeits may win local, may make it into the state race standings, but they ain't winning no Pro Hunts, no Trucks, no big stuff. Ain't gonna happen.

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Posted by yadkintar on 02-10-2016 04:23 AM:

I agree with Jim those guys that hunt that big stuff you don't see them at the little local hunts they stay home a get they're dog right they are hunting the best money can buy when they show up they ain't playen.

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 02-10-2016 02:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
What I was trying to say is there are dogs that win and win big, or a lot of money. That are not coondogs. They win because of there handler. Or maybe because there a babble mouth cover dog. Some people would call a dog like that a power house dog. I would not. But I have seen dogs that won like that throw off spring that were nice dogs and didn't need help to win.

What dogs that win big are "not coondogs" or "babble mouth cover dogs" that you have hunted with?????? You seem to claim that you hunt with all these "big name" dogs that are "not coondogs" so I think everybody that is reading your crazy posts would like to know what dogs....If you are gonna talk about how you have hunted with big name dogs that win big hunts that are "not coondogs" better put some facts/names to your claim.....I named a bunch of dogs, wheres yours?

Posted by JiM on 02-10-2016 03:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
What dogs that win big are "not coondogs" or "babble mouth cover dogs" that you have hunted with?????? You seem to claim that you hunt with all these "big name" dogs that are "not coondogs" so I think everybody that is reading your crazy posts would like to know what dogs....If you are gonna talk about how you have hunted with big name dogs that win big hunts that are "not coondogs" better put some facts/names to your claim.....I named a bunch of dogs, wheres yours?

I wanted to say that but I have taken a personnel vow to try being less rude.

Posted by novicane65 on 02-10-2016 03:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Most grntch couldnt win our local pkc hunt.

X2 X3 X4 People think cuz their dog is a grntch that it could win in pkc and win big but never shows up to the hunts

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