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-- bobcat dogs (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928441798)

quote:

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Originally posted by Wade Kuhns
Snowshoe ,how many have you killed over your dogs and how long have you been doing it? You're not that far from me.

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When you guys turn loose on a cat and get set up,how far ahead of the dogs is the cat when you catch a glimpse of him?I understand it's not the same every time but in general ,is the cat running or sneaking through.One of my biggest mistakes when I first started this was , I'd cut loose on a track and just listened from the truck. I was always waiting for the tree . I didn't know most everybody went in and set up on them more than not. I noticed cats take a back track .It's funny talking to guys and alot of experienced guys say they actually send somebody in on the track and quite often that guy catches the cat coming back

Ive noticed they like to cross in certain spots like a rabbit over and over just bigger circles here. I think tight mouthed track dogs get closer and bump cats up a tree better my opinion. As far as the speed the cat runs and how far ahead he is depends on The track to start with terrain and pressure the dogs put on the cat.

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Hounds I own
PR LT Redcoat Wait Till Sundown(Dual Grand T-Top Dark Timber Moose X Longtrail Redcoat Reaper)

PR Long Trail Redcoat Lucky Walter (Dual GR T-Top Dark Timber Moose xSML Dark Timber Bobbie Ann) co owner Ron Wolters


PR Long Trail Redcoat Reaper(GRCHPR Hershs Huntin Red 90/4 Life Gun HTX X CH PR Stone&Redcoat DBL Moon Kate II) co owner Ron Wolters

Hounds Im hunting
PR Soggy Bottom Dark Timber Addy : owners Buck Ratliff/Mike Laster

NTCH GRCH Dark Timber Red Angus : owners Buck Ratliff and Myself

In my experience, and I'm just a guy that runs squirrel dogs on bobcats, is this.

Every cat is different. The one's that want to hang around and short circle are easier for the dogs to catch. Some end up under ground but they generally don't get a big lead on the dogs and will be within 50 to 100 yards in front.

Pop ups are pop ups. We've had it happen with hounds and curs. These cats just don't want to run, whether they have a full belly or have just been moving all night and want a break.

Then you have the cats that be line out of the country. If the dogs don't get right on them quick they will probably never catch them. Usually on a mission to some rocks or nasty laurel and tend to put a huge gap in the chase.

Snow conditions are somewhat critical. We need snow to find them where we hunt. Snow depth hasn't mattered much. We've caught just as many with 4" as we have with 2 feet. Crust will kill the dogs, cats run on top, dogs break through. They'll never catch up.

Terrain I feel is the biggest obstacle. Big rocks and laurel make for tough chases. Cats will jump rock to rock where a hound can't go or climb trees and bail off onto rocks. The other issue is enclosure fences around clear cuts. They will destroy a chase.

In good snow I expect a catch more often than not. But I think I hunt easier cats than everywhere else. lol

I treed cats with two walkers I had that were blabbermouths on track but I had a few tight mouthed blue dogs and they caught and treed more consistantly than the walkers. The reason I think that happens is tight mouth dogs are real close when they jump the cat so he has a hard time getting a lead on the hounds now a dog open trailing a cold track to a cat the cat hears the dog and knows hes coming way before they get there so he can get a lead on them again just an opinion whatever works do it Ive seen people do great turning dogs in and like I said I have had no luck with that method. We rely on snow here to our season is 3 weeks and its steep jagged country like I said before our hardest task here is finding a good track to run we have a relativly low cat population around me.

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Hounds I own
PR LT Redcoat Wait Till Sundown(Dual Grand T-Top Dark Timber Moose X Longtrail Redcoat Reaper)

PR Long Trail Redcoat Lucky Walter (Dual GR T-Top Dark Timber Moose xSML Dark Timber Bobbie Ann) co owner Ron Wolters


PR Long Trail Redcoat Reaper(GRCHPR Hershs Huntin Red 90/4 Life Gun HTX X CH PR Stone&Redcoat DBL Moon Kate II) co owner Ron Wolters

Hounds Im hunting
PR Soggy Bottom Dark Timber Addy : owners Buck Ratliff/Mike Laster

NTCH GRCH Dark Timber Red Angus : owners Buck Ratliff and Myself

Kevin Jackson,how old was Billy till you started to pretty much count on him to get the job done on cats.Just trying to put it into perspective for me.My comparison is to a coondog as a 3 year old that has been hunted at least 3-4 days a week.Usually by then a coondog is getting pretty good ,not like a 6 year old but pretty good.Same question to you other guys.I just singled Kevin and Billy out because I know Billy gets it done.The bad part is I know I won't hunt a dog on cats 3-4 days a week all year long of cats.

Billy was 5 1/2 months old when he went to his first lion tree. He pretty much stayed in sight all the way to the tree until we got close then went in to his mom and was treeing when we got there. I coon hunted him after that all summer and fall and he was really a naturaul and did good. By lion season he was right around a year old and after a couple lions he was a pretty solid dog. By the end of that season he would run and tree his own lion or bobcat and made it look easy. He was a bobcat dog in every sense of the term and a "finished dog" before he was 2. His son buddy treed his first wild coon by himself at a couple days shy of 6 months old and treed his first lion by himself at 11 months old and caught his first bobcat a couple weeks later. He was what I would call a finished dog by his second birthday too. All of my dogs except my yearling female can, have, and will tree cats by themself. I haven't done much with the young female. Put her on a few lions this year and the third time we took her I started the track with her. She took off on the track even with the three old dogs tied back barking like fools and I let her get a good headstart then turned the others loose. She stayed in the lead until they got in the cliffs then Buddy passed her up but she was still the second dog to the tree. It takes a dog some miles in the cliffs to learn how to get through them. She'll make a nice dog I think. Just hasn't been hunted much. Think I've had her hunting 5 times in her life. Every dog is different. My rule was always that if they didn't run and tree their own game by a year old they were gone. She is the exception because I haven't put the time in on her. She's been at the tree on every lion track she's been turned loose on but one and that's because that cat lost all the dogs in the cliffs. I expect the dogs I raise if put in the woods to be doing it by themselves at a year old and by two years old I expect them to be pretty well finished.

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Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

By finished I mean run and tree their own track and stay treed with the meat. Of course a dog improves with age and experience. They're kind of like whiskey they'll get the job done at 2 years old but get better with age. I've been fortunate to own some good dogs and started catching cats with my first two dogs that I bought as 8 week old pups and trained from scratch and those dogs were the death of a bunch of lions, bobcats, and coons. Every red dog I've owned since except for three in 20 years goes back to the first hound I ever owned. My Sage dog is the only dog I own now that doesn't go back to my original dog. She's a Sandy Creek Jake daughter out of a Rat x Raven female. The Jake blood brought in more volume and a bit more open on track and more straight line drive. I think I lost a little cold trailing ability and her feet aren't quite as tough as my other dogs but they aren't bad. She's more of a competition style dog than my original dogs. Pretty quick strike dog, opens on track more, and gets deeper faster. Billy was a great bobcat dog because he had a good nose and the brains to use it, was tight mouthed on a track, was a super fast track dog, and a great locating dog. When he treed you could load the gun or go home and come back the next day and load the gun then. Didn't matter to him, he'd stay treed till you got there. He's almost 11 years old and grey now I didn't hunt him this winter. The other dogs leave him in the dust and this is tough country on an old dog. I still coon hunt him.

__________________
Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

Thanks Kevin , I'm making a cross this spring on My grntch grch Grfch Heat HTX female that should be nice .Breeding her to grntch locked and Loaded Pistol. Should be some real game driven tree dogs.Im going to save one out of that for cats.I like the kind of dogs we've been getting mixing this blood.

We have 3 inches of hard crusty snow with just a couple of inches of fresh fluff on top. Turned loose on a track that had snow in it this morning and had it caught in an hour. Very few hunters here can even try to run on this bad of snow. But the feet and track drive that Mr Ray put together in these dogs still amazes me, even after having this blood for over 15 years.

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Wild Spirit Big Game Hounds
English Big Game, is the only language we speak in our country!!
Dan and Jonathan Kirschner
906-250-0089
Upper MI

Wade, I think you'll be fine using a pup from that cross on cats. I got to hunt with the Bone dog that the Krasa boys had. He looked real good that night, I liked him.

__________________
Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

We're really looking forward to these pups ,just need Heat to come in heat!

cat

Wade, i got away from the hospital the last day and got a dubble, treed one and one running i'll try to tex pics

Anybody hunt cur dogs on cats??? Just wonder how good they would do on them??? I've heard of people treeing cats with curs while squirrel hunting but i didn't know if the curs had the nose to grub up a old track or not???

Yes for about 8 years now.

Well if you've hung with it for 8 years you must do pretty good with them!!! LOL Me and my buddy are going to try it but we got a lot of learning to do!!!!

Most of the bobcat hunters in Texas live in the southern part of the state south of San Antonio to Mexico. This is where we have a huge cat population. Most of the cat hunters of today are ranchers that are very independent and rarely take anyone hunting or sell a dog. I have several buddies that hunt down there and these guys catch 150-300 bobcats annually. There is no season and no bag limit in Texas and since these guys have no one telling them what to do or when, can hunt everyday that the weather is good.
They hunt 10-20 dogs on the ground and these dogs are broke not to bark at any off game. Running walker fox hounds is the primary blood in these dogs with a little bluetick, redtick (English) thrown in to give the dogs a little of the treeing instinct and grit. (A purebred American Foxhound will rarely tree and treeing is considered to be a poor trait).
We catch 1/4 to 1/3 of the cats on the ground without it ever taking a tree. Trees are short (usually mesquite) and pretty open. It is rare for a cat to jump after the dogs force him or her to climb. If you really blow them out before making them climb it is amazing how small a tree will hold them.
Those of you that watch CARNIVORE have no doubt seen us hunting bobcats in South Texas. To see some of these past episodes, go to CarbonTV and click on shows, then scroll down to CARNIVORE.
Adios,
Gary

Must be alot of cats in Texas! That's awesome Derek ,send the pics to my phone.Its been awhile since I got on here.

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If you can find a nice leopard hound they are way smarter and catching cats over the 50% mark is ALL about brains. It's not hard to find a smart leopard. 20 cats a year is rare in WI. and I've caught a lot more than that.

I am taking care of my youngest for a few years before she goes off to school so I'm not hunting much for a little while longer or I would invite you to come out. It doesn't sound like you need any pointers on what a good dog looks like so it would have been a pleasure.

There is a man in PA. that got a couple of dogs from me and ought to be catching cats pretty well now (1 adult and 1 pup). If you would like to talk to him I can get you his number.

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Dan McDonough
507-261-9121 (C)
jagdlep@yahoo.com
Superstition Mtns., AZ
American Leopard Hounds
& Lurchers

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One more thing, catching the cats around the Great Lakes region is a lot different than catching them in TX. They have more cats than you have coon in some places and everything is different really.

Kevin hit the nail on the head when he said that you can catch more cats here with one good dog than with more. If you ever find a dog that good it will be a lot like coon hunting but they only come around once in a great while. They have to be very good at everything and be extra smart. The pack hunting works better down South than it does in the North.

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Dan McDonough
507-261-9121 (C)
jagdlep@yahoo.com
Superstition Mtns., AZ
American Leopard Hounds
& Lurchers

Sounds good Dan,send me the guy's name and number here in Pa ,I'd definitely call him.

Dan what kind of mouth do your leopards have? I bought a leopard pup a few years back and he made a decent dog from what I've heard. Every time he opened it sounded like someone was stomping the guts out of a coyote. As far as the brains that all the leopard guys talk about I didn't see it. Not that he wasn't a smart dog but he sure didn't seem any smarter than what I have here. I gave the dog away. When I took him coon hunting he'd blow in like a walker dog and run by coons a lot of times and chase deer. Once I broke him off the deer it was a little better but he'd still blow by coons running wild. One of the most hard headed dogs I've ever owned too. Just couldn't get along with him. He's in Michigan now and last I heard the guy that has him loves him. I did hunt with a leopard in Nebraska that was a dang nice dog. I suppose they are they same as other breeds. Some good, some bad, and a select few great ones.

__________________
Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

...

You answered your own question.

I've had two squeally mouthed dogs over the years. One was a super coondog and the other was an average coon dog. The later was culled. Both dogs were out of different lines than I hunt now.

The mouths in this line are almost 100% bawl with good volumn and great carry. I won't put up with a stupid dog above all things. There is a type of brains that comes with this line and most of the folks who have a dog form here that spend any time with their dogs say that their leopard is the smartest hound they've ever seen. It's not a snappy kind of smarts like a border collie or a sharp jack Russell, it's more like someone installed a wisdom chip in their head when they were little. I tell people if they make it to a year old and they don't know what I'm talking about when I say that, they should bring their pup back and trade it for a different one because theirs isn't going to cut it for cats. They all don't make it.

__________________
Dan McDonough
507-261-9121 (C)
jagdlep@yahoo.com
Superstition Mtns., AZ
American Leopard Hounds
& Lurchers

You guys that have hunted these cats the most,do you notice that the younger cats seem to be the one that the dogs tree more often than big ones?

We have done pretty good catching big toms. I honestly don't recall treeing any adult females. Treed a few small ones and caught a few on the ground. Hard to say percentage wise though because we tend to try and avoid small tracks and only put down on toms. Doesn't always work out that way though.