UKC Forums - Garmin Hunt?

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-24-2015 08:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Did you have too? No, but had the guy not had his garmin and just asked can we walk this way to see if I can hear my dog. Would you have done it?

I can't justify as a judge walking just to walk to a dog that's not even heard. If the dog or dogs are struck and are getting deeper the cast needs to do its best to stay within hearing of all dogs.

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Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 09:56 AM:

Before the rule change, it was all about allowing the Garmins in hunts for the safety of the dogs. We see here how long that lasted. Now we are poor sportsmen if we don't let the Garmin lead the cast around. And if you think dogs go deep now, just wait a few generations. You ain't seen nothing yet.

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Posted by sleepy head on 08-24-2015 01:50 PM:

Can you imagine a cast where you have the judges dog wallowing a track up close the other 3 are deep and possibly out of hearing and the judge won't move

Posted by RLenhart on 08-24-2015 01:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
Can you imagine a cast where you have the judges dog wallowing a track up close the other 3 are deep and possibly out of hearing and the judge won't move

What I normally see in hunts is four guys acting sensible enough to try to stay within hearing of everybody's dog. NOT all this "sorry pal rules are rules we don't have to move for your dog cause you looked at your garmin"

Posted by joey on 08-24-2015 02:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RLenhart
What I normally see in hunts is four guys acting sensible enough to try to stay within hearing of everybody's dog. NOT all this "sorry pal rules are rules we don't have to move for your dog cause you looked at your garmin"

Thats my point exactly. Do you have to walk that way? No but if its a couple hundred yards why do you care? We all understand the rule what I don't understand is why you would refuse to walk? We have always walked if a guy thought his dog was deep a certain way even if he couldn't hear it so whats different now?

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Posted by buck brush on 08-24-2015 02:43 PM:

what would you have done before the Garmin?? I do not think you would have walked to a dog you could not hear.

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Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 02:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
Can you imagine a cast where you have the judges dog wallowing a track up close the other 3 are deep and possibly out of hearing and the judge won't move

If a majority of the cast wants to walk, they are walking. A majority can overrule the judge on anything. Try again.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2015 02:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
what would you have done before the Garmin?? I do not think you would have walked to a dog you could not hear.

I have done it many a time. One dog trailing all around us and the other three are gone up a holler. We have always walked up the hollar or up on a ridge but keeping the dog that was struck in within hearing. And this was way before Garmins. The problem always comes in when only one or two dogs are gone. The other handlers don't want to walk to where those dog/dogs can be heard. They might be treed. And UKC rules don't say anywhere that you aren't supposed to walk toward a dog/dogs that are gone as long as you keep the dog/dogs that are struck in within hearing. Of course, they also don't say that you have to either. I guess that is where that sportsmanship thing comes in.

Posted by sleepy head on 08-24-2015 03:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I think where the cast walks is up to the judge. If he declined to walk away from dogs that are struck and trailing to go to a dog that isn't even struck in on the card, that is his decision and the Garmin does not overrule anything.
You really think it is fair to ask a cast to walk away from dogs that are struck and trailing in search if a dog that isn't even on the card?

I figured you could vote, I didn't think you did

Posted by buck brush on 08-24-2015 03:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I have done it many a time. One dog trailing all around us and the other three are gone up a holler. We have always walked up the hollar or up on a ridge but keeping the dog that was struck in within hearing. And this was way before Garmins. The problem always comes in when only one or two dogs are gone. The other handlers don't want to walk to where those dog/dogs can be heard. They might be treed. And UKC rules don't say anywhere that you aren't supposed to walk toward a dog/dogs that are gone as long as you keep the dog/dogs that are struck in within hearing. Of course, they also don't say that you have to either. I guess that is where that sportsmanship thing comes in.

if you can hear a dog sure split the difference I would agree and have done it but if you do not hear it how did you know what way to go , and I agree with Jim you can not use a Garmin to split the difference on a dog you do not hear.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2015 03:41 PM:

Where I hunt, it is pretty obvious which way to go. You go up. And no one is saying that you have to. It just seems like the "nice" thing to do.

Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 03:48 PM:

You can spin this however you want but the bottom line is that UKC has given very explicit instruction as to how this situation (referring to Hoosiers very first post on this thread) is to be handled and when a judge does exactly that, his sportsmanship is questioned. That just sux.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-24-2015 03:59 PM:

I think this topic is getting a little far off. We had 3 dogs struck in front of us. 4th guy pulls his garmin out and says mine us getting deep we need to walk that way and split the difference keep in mind his dog has never been heard. My response is no, you would have never known which way your dog was without using the Garmin to follow it and using the Garmin to follow dogs that aren't barking is against the rules.

Is it a bad break for the handler that his dog is blowing through the country and not saying anything? Sure but don't blame me or anyone else on the cast. Tough luck happens all the time in these casts.

Imagine in a 4 dog cast that all the dogs are getting split up and each handler keeps giving the judge an update on their Garmins wanting to 'get closer'. Each time you start heading to one the others speak up and say were getting farther from mine my Garmin says mine is this way.

This ordeal has NOTHING to do with sportsmanship. This has everything to do with not allowing a handler to dictate where the cast walks based on his Garmin.

Posted by RLenhart on 08-24-2015 04:28 PM:

Hoosier Man

Your right this is starting to look like one of those threads that's going to get driven into the ground without anybody really agreeing with the other side. I am just curious how far was the guy's dog and was there any suggestion of at least trying to move to a location where you could better hear everybody's dog. I don't think anybody thinks you should have moved hundreds of yards to suit one guy but usually (in this area) if somebody say's my dog is X amount of yards "that way" we try to move somewhere that we might get that guy's dog in hearing without getting to far from the ones that are struck, but hey I live in the hills it might be different if you live where it's flatter but around here you might loose a dog at 250 yards because he slipped to the other side of the hill but if you move to the top you very easily might hear that same dog 900 yards away. And yes I KNOW there isn't a rule for that I just think that was what somebody back on the 1st page was thinking when he started talking about sportsmanship.
None of us were there and really shouldn't pass judgement on your actions and I honestly never meant to myself.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2015 05:07 PM:

Oh, I think that everyone is in agreement that you don't "have" to walk in the direction of the dog not heard. But you are right, I don't think that you will get everyone to agree that you should. Everyone is different and has a different opinion on what "should" be done. That is what makes the world go round. And pitching a fit in the middle of a hunt because the cast doesn't do what you think they "should" do will absolutely get you nowhere. I know because i have tried it.

Posted by joey on 08-24-2015 05:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
if you can hear a dog sure split the difference I would agree and have done it but if you do not hear it how did you know what way to go , and I agree with Jim you can not use a Garmin to split the difference on a dog you do not hear.

This is what I don't want to happen. A misunderstanding that you can not walk in the direction of a dog that has not been heard. What ukc said was the handler can not "demand" that the cast walk that way. That's fine and in this case it was handled correctly, but people read these post and apply what they read here on cast. The simple fact is ukc did not say you can't walk towards the dog, just that it's not the handlers right to make you.

Posted by joey on 08-24-2015 05:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
if you can hear a dog sure split the difference I would agree and have done it but if you do not hear it how did you know what way to go , and I agree with Jim you can not use a Garmin to split the difference on a dog you do not hear.

Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 05:27 PM:

I understand where you are coming from but all of this is a judges decision with the casts ability to overrule with a majority vote.

Posted by GA DAWG on 08-24-2015 05:38 PM:

I'll just go ahead an tell ya. Im not walking away from struck dogs to listen for a dog that may or may not be in the direction you are wanting to go. Best get a louder dog is all I know to tell ya. If its struck. Yeah lets go but one thats not struck. Nope. With a garmin without a garmin. Ukc, pkc, chkc, acha, akc nothing.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2015 05:56 PM:

It sounds like we need a "poll" now. Would you refuse to walk in the direction of a dog not heard?

Posted by sleepy head on 08-24-2015 06:25 PM:

Some u guys r stuck on rule 3, this must be the only rule a cast can vote to ignore

Posted by groworg1 on 08-24-2015 06:52 PM:

me me me no we we we coon hunts are a we sport not a me sport the goal should be to have a good hunt and hands shook for a job well done to the cast winner but that's not what happens 2 hour maniacs and p#ss poor sportsmanship that's what happens and we wonder why the local club only has the same 4-6 guys a lot of this has to do with shortened hunt times so how many think its okay to use a garmin to relocate dogs trailing out of hearing while scoring a tree ?

Posted by wvu35dabest on 08-24-2015 07:46 PM:

Re: Garmin Hunt?

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I was judging a cast last night when I had my first ever garmin incincident. 3 dogs were struck about 100 yards in front of us. Handler of 4th dog pulls his garmin out and says his is way through the country and we need to split the difference. Keep in mind this dog is not struck in. I asked the handler if he heard his dog he said no but we need to walk that way.

Now my response was no we will not walk to a dog not heard based on you looking at your garmin. Garmins are not intended to be used in that way. He threw a big fit and caused a big stink about it.

What do you guys think about this?

It says here he just wanted to split the difference not drag the cast out of hearing range of the other dogs. Don't see what it would hurt to walk a couple hundred yards in the last known direction.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-24-2015 07:50 PM:

Re: Re: Garmin Hunt?

quote:
Originally posted by wvu35dabest
It says here he just wanted to split the difference not drag the cast out of hearing range of the other dogs. Don't see what it would hurt to walk a couple hundred yards in the last known direction.

How do you know what direction to walk when a dog hasn't barked?

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-24-2015 07:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
me me me no we we we coon hunts are a we sport not a me sport the goal should be to have a good hunt and hands shook for a job well done to the cast winner but that's not what happens 2 hour maniacs and p#ss poor sportsmanship that's what happens and we wonder why the local club only has the same 4-6 guys a lot of this has to do with shortened hunt times so how many think its okay to use a garmin to relocate dogs trailing out of hearing while scoring a tree ?

The Garmin is never to be used to keep up with dogs. The Garmin is for you and your dogs safety not for keeping up with them in a cast. Has nothing to do with me, you, or any other cast member it has to do with following the rules the way they are written.

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