UKC Forums - question

Pages (4): « 1 [2] 3 4 »
Show all 98 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928427116)

Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 04:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I don't understand how you could assign tree points and then minus them to a dog that everyone agreed was not treeing? I mean if she had been treed in would they not have minused her tree points for not treeing? So how could they assign her tree points for not treeing but "being at the tree" and then minus them?

You are changing the situation.
This dog wasn't there alone, there had to be other dogs there treeing or they couldn't have even gone into the tree. And only one of those dogs is required to bark, the rest just have to be there.
The only question is if a dog at the tree when the judge arrives must be actually treeing or just handled at the tree to be subject to 4-k.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Posted by T Felderman on 08-24-2015 04:18 PM:

Re: question

quote:
Originally posted by brujan182
Dog is struck in. Is at slick not treeing when we get there. What happens to strike points. Minus, circle, delete.

I believe it gets circle strike points.

Posted by brujan182 on 08-24-2015 04:19 PM:

Doesn't appear moderator wants to touch this one. 3rd dog was also there, he had never barked at all. Can't find any thing under minused, delete or circled that applies.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by DFred on 08-24-2015 04:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
A dog handled at the tree when the cast arrives is considered treed, barking or not.

Posted by DFred on 08-24-2015 04:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by B Thompson
I got this off the Advisor Q & A....Finally, we can also eliminate “treeing” because raring up and smelling is not considered “treeing” by any standards of treeing. Therefore, no harm no foul.

Looks like the advisor covered the treeing definition to me

Posted by B Thompson on 08-24-2015 04:34 PM:

Re: Nope

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
I do not agree with B Thompson. Now lets kee in on two other words. Nite Champion, possum. Neither of these words were use in first post. so neither apply to this situation. First post is no where close to a scratch.
I do agree with JiM 4-K, Just my opinion.

This is where I got this situation from

http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/News/QA08112015105740AM

This is UKC interpretation of what treeing is ,not mine. 4k plainly state , Off Game or Slick. As far as registers or Nitech cast, both cast should be judged the same, we just use stricter penalties for the NITECH cast

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2015 04:35 PM:

So there was another dog "at the tree but not treeing" that was also not struck in? Did they assign strike points and tree points to it and minus them for being "at the tree"

Posted by brujan182 on 08-24-2015 04:39 PM:

Can't assign strike points. dog was shut out.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by msinc on 08-24-2015 04:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
And only one of those dogs is required to bark, the rest just have to be there.

Nope...not according to UKC. I think what this thread needs is a clear definition of exactly what treeing is in regards to each dog. Read page 35 of the 2nd edition "Advisor" regarding tree dog style. It clearly states that "the bare minimum requirement a dog must meet to be considered treed is to bark at least once every two minutes and not leave the tree." A dog must bark once every two minutes or more for that dog to be considered treed
One dog barking treed while other dogs are just standing there DOES NOT make those not barking automatically treed by proxy if they weren't called treed.
You cant put the two minute "stationary" rule on them until they are treed so in this case they simply quit the track and receive minus points for the track accordingly.

To consider all dogs in the cast or at the tree treed because one is barking is....ridiculous. Is that the word I want here?? yeah, yeah...ridiculous.

Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 04:56 PM:

You can't minus a dog for quitting track if it is at the tree.

Posted by brujan182 on 08-24-2015 04:56 PM:

I should have included that the judge is a master of hounds. But he could not show a rule that applied.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by msinc on 08-24-2015 04:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You can't minus a dog for quitting track if it is at the tree.

Why not??? Dog is declared struck...dog is at tree but not treed...dog is at tree doing nothing...dog is no longer running the track and has clearly quit track. Dog gets minus on track.

Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 05:01 PM:

Well you're wrong on that one

Posted by brujan182 on 08-24-2015 05:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Well you're wrong on that one

Jims right that one definitely doesn't apply.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by msinc on 08-24-2015 05:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by brujan182
Jims right that one definitely doesn't apply.

I must be missing something.....you said your dog was struck on the track. Then you said you did not tree it and it was not treed when you got to the tree that another dog was treed on, it was simply there.....
So a dog that was supposed to be tracking shows up at a tree and does nothing but stand there and you don't minus it for quitting the track?????
Okay, since you and Jim are right....what else exactly do you do with this dog and where is the rule that says he can quit a track, not tree but be near a tree and not get minus????? Wait the 15 minutes and scratch him for not hunting???? He's not doing anything else.

Edit: Getting back to the water is not a place of refuge says UKC...from page 135 of the 2nd edition Advisor, "UKC maintains any bodies of water are considered part of the terrain regardless of width, current or otherwise. In your situation, the rules allow no other option other than to minus the dogs. Sounds like the coon won this one!!"

Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 05:33 PM:

What you do with the dog is handle it as the rule requires. Any dog at the tree must be handled. Now all that is left is to score that dogs strike points. If the tree is plussed, the strike is minused. If the tree is circled, the strike is circled. If the tree is minused, you must determine if 4-k applies.

Posted by msinc on 08-24-2015 05:43 PM:

This is where we might need UKC to step in...the rule says "dogs at tree must be leashed" I agree, that sounds simple enough, but it has to first be decided what "dogs at tree" really means. I take that as dogs that were declared treed, and are in fact treeing when the judge arrives.
To argue the other way, why would you leash a dog that is: A. Not treeing B. Never declared treed and C. Simply near the area hanging around and D. Possibly going to get back on the track if left to do so. ?????
What if one of the dogs not declared treed and not seen to be treeing continues on track, swims the river and trees the coon on the other side??? I get that this didn't happen, but says UKC it is what should have happened. It didn't, so they get minus.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2015 05:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
I must be missing something..... where is the rule that says he can quit a track, not tree but be near a tree and not get minus?????

Rule 4 J ...pg 54
If dog declared treed, after 5 min has elapsed no additional dog can be declared treed at that particular tree but if they come in to tree will get minus on track and nothing on tree if coon is seen.

Rule 5 b...pg 54
No dog to recieve minus points for coming into tree after judge arrives unless a coon is seen and the dogs treeing are awarded plus points.

Rule 4 k..pg 54
Dogs treeing but not declared treed, when judge arrives will be minused on tree points on "off game" or slick tree. Points will be awarded by next available position in the case of one dog, or split available tree points in the case of two or more dogs.
I guess the only thing to debate here is whether dog was "treeing but not declared treed" and everyone said that dog was not treeing so what is there to argue about?

Posted by Troy Arnold on 08-24-2015 05:47 PM:

Start the 8min on the dog not treeing but is struck in. He hasn't quit the track yet or slick treeing he is just trying to decide how to get across the river hahaha.

__________________
Troy Arnold

Redbones
CH Baptist Baxter
Baptist Bella

Posted by msinc on 08-24-2015 05:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Troy Arnold
Start the 8min on the dog not treeing but is struck in. He hasn't quit the track yet or slick treeing he is just trying to decide how to get across the river hahaha.

This is my other point...you do not have to start 8 minutes on a dog that you can plainly see is no longer running or working a track to minus him for quitting it.

Posted by msinc on 08-24-2015 05:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Rule 4 J ...pg 54
If dog declared treed, after 5 min has elapsed no additional dog can be declared treed at that particular tree but if they come in to tree will get minus on track and nothing on tree if coon is seen.

Rule 5 b...pg 54
No dog to recieve minus points for coming into tree after judge arrives unless a coon is seen and the dogs treeing are awarded plus points.

Rule 4 k..pg 54
Dogs treeing but not declared treed, when judge arrives will be minused on tree points on "off game" or slick tree. Points will be awarded by next available position in the case of one dog, or split available tree points in the case of two or more dogs.
I guess the only thing to debate here is whether dog was "treeing but not declared treed" and everyone said that dog was not treeing so what is there to argue about?

Jim, I think what Mr. Lambert is trying to say is "well you're wrong on this one"!!!!!!!

Posted by elvis on 08-24-2015 06:02 PM:

dog should not have been there. - both ways.

at tree when cast arrived and handled.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2015 06:06 PM:

Msinc, what I am saying is, "I don't think that dog should have been awarded tree points and minused". As I have said before, everyone has their own opinion and is entitled to vote. Just like Mr Marv. But then, I hunt Redbones so no one ever pays any attention to my opinions anyway. That is why I give them out so readily.

Posted by critter on 08-24-2015 07:35 PM:

circle

Dog can only be minused if coon is seen.What am i missing?

__________________
Always be yourself because the people that matter dont mind and the people that mind dont matter.Rock River Plotts

Posted by msinc on 08-24-2015 07:50 PM:

Re: circle

quote:
Originally posted by critter
Dog can only be minused if coon is seen.What am i missing?

The OP stated that the dog was struck on track, never declared treed and not treeing when they got there. The dog was present, but not treeing. He later states that the tree is a fallen one in the water and that the coon got away by apparently jumping in the water and swimming. Dogs that did tree hung slick...all dogs should have went swimming and followed the coon. None did. What is there to circle??? That the coon could be hiding under the log???

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:55 AM.

Pages (4): « 1 [2] 3 4 »
Show all 98 posts from this thread on one page