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- Redbones (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=51)
-- Too Much White (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928424879)

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Are you saying that walker dogs have "the right blood"?

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__________________
Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

Richard

Richard you may need to start writing stuff down, so you don't loose track of dogs. HAHAHAHA.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Are you saying that walker dogs have "the right blood"?

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__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Darrin, I used to just remember everything. My teachers said that I had a photographic memory. But now my poor brain is so clogged up that I barely remember yesterday. I can remember 20 years ago but I don't remember what happened last week. I guess that I will have to start writing more things down. This message board is great for keeping track of stuff. I thought that maybe someone would remember what happened to this pup. But maybe he was just a cull.

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry D Walker
Are you saying pebble has walker in her..?😉

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I call BS

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Larry, look at that chest. Do you really have to even ask? Or maybe it came from Boone. And Corey, I think that I can get plenty of go from a Redbone. I can't keep up with Boone anymore. I had to get a young guy to hunt him.

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Re: I call BS

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Snyder
You can get plenty of white from a redbone too. Plenty of black, plenty of light red (orange), plenty of light eyes, plenty of yellow fur etc...etc...etc...

About the only thing you can't get plenty of from Redbones is a pedigree full of world champions. And this, "too much white" crap might be one of the reasons why.

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__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Too much

Dang, sounds like your getting excited Snyd Lol. Struck a nerve or something.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

Re: I call BS

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Snyder
And this, "too much white" crap might be one of the reasons why.

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HYBRID VIGOR

Some think its HYBRID VIGOR

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

So, is the information written in the History section of our standard completely false then? Should it be re-written to say "any white is proof that the dog has Treeing Walker Coonhound in its pedigree"?

In case you've never read it, I included a short excerpt from the standard itself. You can find it on UKC's website

"Years ago, most coon hunters who owned a red dog of unknown ancestry, but proven ability in tracking and treeing raccoons, called his dog a “Redbone”. Then a few serious breeders who were devoted both to the breed and the sport began a campaign of selective breeding to produce a hound with the necessary characteristics to make a superior coonhound that would breed true to type in color and conformation.

The foundation stock of the modern day Redbone came from George F.L. Birdsong of Georgia, who was a noted foxhunter and breeder. He obtained the pack of Dr. Thomas Henry in the 1840’s.

As is the case with most of the other coonhound breeds, the ancestors of the Redbone were foxhounds. A Bloodhound cross is said to have been made, and it’s also said that the blood of the Irish hounds was introduced later. This latter cross is said to account for the white chest and feet markings which still occasionally show up in Redbone pups today.

The first dogs were commonly called “Saddlebacks”. The background color was red, and most of them possessed black saddle markings. By selective breeding, the black saddle was bred out and the solid red dogs became known as Redbone Coonhounds."

- See more at: https://www.ukcdogs.com/redbone-coo...h.LRofvoxu.dpuf

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Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

No Corey, a lot of white is not proof but it makes a lot of people "think" that there is some walker dog blood in there. Of course some think that there isn't any walker unless there is "proof". Is the glass half full or half empty? If your dog runs wide open for a mile is he running off game? Or do you have to see the Deer first? That is just human nature. It is simple math. Red + Red = Red... White + White = White.... Red + White = Red and White. How far back and how much is anybody's guess. Most base that "guess" on how much white there is.

Re: HYBRID VIGOR

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry D Walker
Some think its HYBRID VIGOR

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__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Re: Too much

quote:

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Originally posted by jdgher
Dang, sounds like your getting excited Snyd Lol. Struck a nerve or something.

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You are right Chris, some are the knowledgeable silent type and some of us are just mouthy. Kinda like coonhounds, the tightmouthed hound can tree a lot more coons.

Chris

You hit the nail right on the head! Honesty is the biggest factor in all of this.

That's why it isent fair to claim a dog has any sort of outside influence in it when you don't know for a fact it does

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Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

Oh my goodness, this is the interweb. I thought that we could claim anything we wanted to. It is up to the reader to decide just what they want to believe. How boring would it be if we just stuck to the facts. And I thought everyone knew that I make my facts up as I go.

Richard

You defiantly do know how to shake things up you must be up to ears in snow if you've been doing this much pot stiring!! Maybe you should get Boone back for a couple of weeks whenever the snow melts off at your place

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Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

I am busy raising the next generation.

honesty

Honesty is a funny thing when it comes to hounds. I've had very honest men stand in front of me ,face to face and tell me that their Pr Reddbone stud dogs papers say one thing but the truth is the dog is part walker. Not only that they will tell you what walker dog they come from. Hmmm.

This has happened more than once to me . I have seen pups from those dogs and they can come out all red but once and awhile they put on the chrome.

What's even funnier is what happens when those pups need papers . Now we can just xbred the chrome models and pr the others. Not meaning to offend anyone here just trying to be Honest.

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Kelly you are 100% right

We are a pretty tight knit group with a good bit of stand up folks. That means that when something extra gets thrown in if ya know many folks then you are going to know when things get added in. I have even seen pictures of the ad ins breeding as many of you probably have along with talked to people who did the add ins or were present when the ad ins happened. That's why I know for sure weirmeramer was bred in just like the B&T and due to ticking in the white of some "Redbones" I feel pretty certain there is some English or Bluetick. Both either of those is strictly speculation. The weirmeramer, Walker, and B&T those are in there like it or not, in most lines. Most of what I know for sure mainly used one of these breeds or the other but not several in one line. Hence the reason why certain lines throw more "ghost", B&T, and a pile of white. Now to add to that one hound that several I have heard try claiming they think was Walker added in no one seems to know for sure but something due to color was added in. However, due to other things showing up from that group of hounds my guess from pups out of this group of hounds is it is actually some type of hard hunting Cur that got added in. One line I know for sure this happened. Soo. That is out there too. Luckily with the X Bred deal we now have a way for people to do this and at least if it is hound put what else extra really is in there.
I personally am a purist of sorts. To me trying to throw in a pile of other hounds to try and get a Red one just to win with is just trying to short cut the process often giving you a mix bred hound that may be great but can't normally produce anything as well as itself is. Because after the first cross a lot of what you gain is lost. However, when you have a solid bred hound it will reproduce close to itself if not better often depending on how tight it is bred. However, just because I am striving to stay within the breed doesn't mean there is no way there is anything extra.
And by the way there has been a Overall World Champion not to many years back that was Redbone. NtCh Timber Choppin Dan who was double Fireball bred and had BTK on the back end.

__________________
Home of where the Heaviest Fireball bred hounds there are come from.
And the closest ones alive to GrNtCh Oklahoma Twister (the #1 reproducing son of Fireball) and GrNtCh Yellow River Rocky (the #2 reproducing son of Fireball) . Thanks to alot of help from my friends.

Handler of:
NtCh GrCh "PR" Dan Langston (Has 2 wins towards GrNtCh in the hunts) ( 10yr old owner asked for me to bring him back to his home) (wouldn't sell) (Ch D8 Dozer (bear hound from all coondog stock, out of my breeding) x NtCh Music/ Kitty) (33% Fireball thru heavy line breeding the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded hound alive, who is hunt titled )

Home of:
'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady (GrNtCh. Barnyard Horse Harry x GrCh Daisy (was the highest Fireball blooded female alive)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Toes ('PR' Atomic Fireball's Fast Talker (nephew to Bookem Danno) x 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Dixie (NtCh GrCh. 'PR' Dan Langston x 'PR'Harry Lady)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Two Toes (NtCh GrCh Dan Langston x Atomic Fireball's Toes
Didn't have the deep hunt style I like but is a solid coonhound. Been treeing her own since her second night in the woods at 8 months old.

Former home of:
(Qualified for the 2011 World Hunt) NtCh. 'PR'Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty RIP (NtCh.Twister's Musical Red Huey x NtCh. Sawblade Red Reckon) RIP

GrNtCh Fireball's Jackpot Jackie, highest placing Redbone female ever, in the UKC World Hunt . RIP

GrCh. 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Daisy RIP (Was the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded female in the world at the time) (Qualified for the 2010 World Show).

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Red River (Daisy x Brown's Oklahoma Twister) RIP (heatstroke)

Ch. D-8 Dozer (Was the Highest blooded GrNtCh Fireball blooded male in the world until I had the GrNtCh Twister pups from here) Was sent to be bear hunted because of his size and me being disabled. RIP

First and only sons of the Old GrNtCh #7 Historical Reproducer Brown's Okl. Twister (the #1 Producing Son of Fireball) in 15 years..


http://atomicfireballkennels.webs.com/
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...threadid=341228
Steve Bell

It all depends on your definition of "better". All adding a little walker blood will do is add some white. : p

I guess that's one of the nice things about being young and naive, you don't have much hindsight to muck around with.

I can't say for sure where it all comes from myself, it could be from Treeing Walkers, or Foxhounds, or Irish hounds like the standard illustrated for us...

My idea though is, I can't change what happened 10, 20 or 30 years ago, I can only control what's in front of me and into the future. So that's the direction I'll head, and any sort of white that pops up along the way, I have no control over.

There are a lot of ways that we all can do our part to make better Redbones. I'm not here to say which way is the best, but I'm going to do the best I can to do my part anyway.

Is that some common ground we can share, Richard??

And for the record, I'm not one for X-Bred's myself

__________________
Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

Re: Kelly you are 100% right

quote:

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Originally posted by thecoondawg76
And by the way there has been a Overall World Champion not to many years back that was Redbone. NtCh Timber Choppin Dan who was double Fireball bred and had BTK on the back end.

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Corey, I never said or implied that you weren't.

Everyone has their own opinion as to how to get to the UKC World Championship. And of course everyone thinks that their way is the best. Why else would they be doing it if they didn't think that it was the best way. Most of us can't even agree on what type of dog or traits we should be breeding for. Of course, I too think that my way is the best way. So I might tell someone how I would do something or what I think. But I am not going to tell someone else how to do it. And I change my mind on what direction that I should take all of the time.