UKC Forums - Is the real answer yes or no????

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-- Is the real answer yes or no???? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928420525)

Posted by Jeff Prince on 06-09-2015 04:32 PM:

First of all its a made up cenario. He asked how could a me too dog win a cast. In my made up cast the me too dog has never in it's life treed a coon by itself. It goes with one dog the first time and another the next and by pure dumb luck ends up with the dog with the coon each time . I don't know about anybody else but I'd be looking at one of the dogs that treed a den and a coon each instead of the dog that treed nothing.

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 06-09-2015 06:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
Deep and alone is NOT what the hunts were originally for... They wanted to see which dog could strike and tree the quickest. They also wanted the cast of dogs to work together not be a mile apart in four different directions....

We keep loosing hunting grounds all the time yet people want their dog DEEP and alone.. that tends to lead to the dogs getting somewhere they aren't suppose to be.

Amen!!!

Somehow we've convinced ourselves that the best dog is the most independent dog, as opposed to the one that can get struck and treed quicker than the rest, IN THE SAME WOODS! Hunts have become more of a lottery on who gets the best guide with the most hunting, than who's dog can beat the other dogs on the same coon. If we all had to score on the same coon, some would be more apt to help find them!

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 06-09-2015 06:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
Amen!!!

Somehow we've convinced ourselves that the best dog is the most independent dog, as opposed to the one that can get struck and treed quicker than the rest, IN THE SAME WOODS! Hunts have become more of a lottery on who gets the best guide with the most hunting, than who's dog can beat the other dogs on the same coon. If we all had to score on the same coon, some would be more apt to help find them!

I would rather have 4 splits a mile apart than be in a calling contest for two hours with handlers pitching their dogs because they know their dogs are going to be there.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 06-09-2015 07:03 PM:

Re: Re: Me too hound.

quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Prince
He said steal a cast win. Here's one way. Split tree me too backs dog with coon. Next drop split tree me too backs dog with coon , dog who treed first coon on den. Me too under two coon dogs who treed coons under one each.me too didn't tree anything but has more points .

he didn't steal anything, he simply was better in knowing the coon was there. 100 % accurate, even though another may have been faster to the tree, there is no way to know that the so called me too'er didn't start the trail first. I have fox and deer hunted with hounds for many years, and there are many occasions the dog that opened first wasn't the first to cross a road, and yes in this case tree. Some wind a track, making them faster, or even slower at times, while others run track for track, which in turn can do the same. Ole me too just was better that night, and deserved the win. plain and simple, and yes, it was by the rules, and unless I am mistaken, all REGISTRIES allow the me too dog to compete.

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Posted by BETHLEHEM BLUES on 06-09-2015 07:17 PM:

HTX

I have seen lots of nite ch & gr nite ch in these hunts that will not hardly leave the handlers side when hunted alone but look like a top notch hound in a cast! Wish it was a requirement to earn that title before you could earn anymore JMO

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 06-09-2015 07:28 PM:

The problem we have with me-tooers isn't on running race right and just not being the first one there the problem is with the dog that couldn't run a coon in a phone booth and covers other dogs all night showing up at trees late some with 4 .59 gone on tree and still getting 75 points thats where it is BS . The tough ones to beat just leave barking for 125 run around like idiots till one gets treed then break their necks trying to get to wherever that dog is . These dogs do occassionally get lucky and accidentally win anyone that has gone to many hunts has seen it happen . The other problem is the guy packing him to the hunts doesn't think there is anything wrong with his dog and actually thinks it is treeing coons lol .
Answer to question no would not live here much less ever go to a hunt .

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Posted by shadinc on 06-09-2015 07:31 PM:

I don't think there's a lot of people paying entry fees for a dog that never trees a coon alone. Did anyone consider this "me too dog". I have a dog that struck 100 tracks treed 100 coons and I saw 100 coons. Sounds great, but he has one fault. He's a slow locator. I put him 15 hunts and made him a Gr Nt Ch. Then someone asks " Has anybody ever seen that dog get a first tree?" Not me, not me, we go all around the room and nobody has seen this dog get a first tree. "HE'S A ME TOO DOG". No he's not. He's an extremely accurate locator.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 06-09-2015 07:34 PM:

The idea of comp hunt is to beat the dogs you draw. you can not do anything about the others. Me too or all alone, beat them and all has taken care of itself. The point is mute.

Posted by HOBO on 06-09-2015 07:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
The problem we have with me-tooers isn't on running race right and just not being the first one there the problem is with the dog that couldn't run a coon in a phone booth and covers other dogs all night showing up at trees late some with 4 .59 gone on tree and still getting 75 points thats where it is BS . The tough ones to beat just leave barking for 125 run around like idiots till one gets treed then break their necks trying to get to wherever that dog is . These dogs do occassionally get lucky and accidentally win anyone that has gone to many hunts has seen it happen . The other problem is the guy packing him to the hunts doesn't think there is anything wrong with his dog and actually thinks it is treeing coons lol .
Answer to question no would not live here much less ever go to a hunt .

First strike is 100 first tree is 125.... I'll give you first strike all night long and take first tree over third or fourth all night...

If you are constantly being beaten by a me to dog the problem may not be the me to dog but the dog on the end of your leash.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 06-09-2015 07:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
First strike is 100 first tree is 125.... I'll give you first strike all night long and take first tree over third or fourth all night...

If you are constantly being beaten by a me to dog the problem may not be the me to dog but the dog on the end of your leash.

Lol win loose ratio around here just fine .

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 06-09-2015 08:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I don't think there's a lot of people paying entry fees for a dog that never trees a coon alone.

I think it's way over half of them

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 06-09-2015 08:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
First strike is 100 first tree is 125.... I'll give you first strike all night long and take first tree over third or fourth all night...

If you are constantly being beaten by a me to dog the problem may not be the me to dog but the dog on the end of your leash.

If you are okay with a dog getting 75 for just getting to a dog treed within 5 minutes I'd check what's on the end of your leash.

Without a countdown, UKC caters to the gutless back packers, so what's the issue? You want to comp hunt and listen to four dogs pile around on trees together all night than there is definitely a registry for that. With the slams you can even win some money doing it.

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Posted by Jeff Prince on 06-09-2015 08:13 PM:

Apparently there are several different definitions of a me too dog. My definition is a dog that goes with the group runs along barking with the pack ( or other dog ) not leading or working just going and following mouthing. Then trees with other(s) because they tree. Don't matter coon slick or chupacabra up tree they monkey see monkey do everything. If anyone wants to hunt that kind you're welcome to do so you're feeding it . They won't live here I want leaders not followers

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Posted by HOBO on 06-09-2015 08:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
If you are okay with a dog getting 75 for just getting to a dog treed within 5 minutes I'd check what's on the end of your leash.

Without a countdown, UKC caters to the gutless back packers, so what's the issue? You want to comp hunt and listen to four dogs pile around on trees together all night than there is definitely a registry for that. With the slams you can even win some money doing it.

You can ask anyone that's ever hunted with me, I've never owned a me too type dog and will not own a me too type dogs.

There are other registries out there that cater to what you want. Why is it everyone is always trying to get ukc to change their rules to be more like the other guy? You don't see the ukc crowd going over to the other boards trying to get them to cater to ukc hunt rules.

Maybe JUST MAYBE everyone realizes that UKC'S title still carries more prestige than the other ones that are out there and they want to change the rules so their type of dog can win in ukc?

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 06-09-2015 08:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
You can ask anyone that's ever hunted with me, I've never owned a me too type dog and will not own a me too type dogs.

There are other registries out there that cater to what you want. Why is it everyone is always trying to get ukc to change their rules to be more like the other guy? You don't see the ukc crowd going over to the other boards trying to get them to cater to ukc hunt rules.

Maybe JUST MAYBE everyone realizes that UKC'S title still carries more prestige than the other ones that are out there and they want to change the rules so their type of dog can win in ukc?

Their type of dog does dominate in ukc already . When the world hunt entries come out look down the list of those qualified for many it is like a $Kc reunion of handlers and dogs many of those there will be in the state/national standings of current or past . Never does a big hunt Walker , BlkTn , English ect Days go by Autumn Oaks or whatever that I don't recognise some of the winners as those that compete in other registries on a regular basis . The ones who can't handle the rules don't go and everyone else just grins and bears it . Some you win some you lose there is another tomorrow night kind of attitude is all you can do shake hands and roll on .

Posted by HOBO on 06-09-2015 08:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Some you win some you lose there is another tomorrow night kind of attitude is all you can do shake hands and roll on .

Best part of this whole thread!

Posted by Jeff Prince on 06-09-2015 08:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
You can ask anyone that's ever hunted with me, I've never owned a me too type dog and will not own a me too type dogs.

There are other registries out there that cater to what you want. Why is it everyone is always trying to get ukc to change their rules to be more like the other guy? You don't see the ukc crowd going over to the other boards trying to get them to cater to ukc hunt rules.

Maybe JUST MAYBE everyone realizes that UKC'S title still carries more prestige than the other ones that are out there and they want to change the rules so their type of dog can win in ukc?

I'm not going to debate kc's with anyone the people I know who have winners win no matter what kc they hunt in but go check the stud auction on this board and see what studs brought the most money then tell me what they All had in common

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Posted by HOBO on 06-09-2015 08:56 PM:

I don't need to go look at it.... The #1 thing they have in common is they are coondawgs, the second thing is most of them are gr nt ch's.

Posted by yadkintar on 06-09-2015 10:12 PM:

Let's face it not everybody has the knack for training good dogs not everybody can afford one but they still like to go to some hunts and visit a while and draw out and have a good time some of they're dogs are what you might call a me too dog most of them hunt. In the hunts because of age or health reasons they don't feel comfortable hunting by they're selfs during the week they just enjoy hunting they still support the clubs.so at this stage in the game if I draw a group of these guys that strike and tree and minuse they're dogs honestly I'll take that over a guy that's got a really good me too dog and he's trying to get you minused all night so he can win!!

Posted by Jeff Prince on 06-09-2015 10:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Let's face it not everybody has the knack for training good dogs not everybody can afford one but they still like to go to some hunts and visit a while and draw out and have a good time some of they're dogs are what you might call a me too dog most of them hunt. In the hunts because of age or health reasons they don't feel comfortable hunting by they're selfs during the week they just enjoy hunting they still support the clubs.so at this stage in the game if I draw a group of these guys that strike and tree and minuse they're dogs honestly I'll take that over a guy that's got a really good me too dog and he's trying to get you minused all night so he can win!!

Did you just come in from fishing yadkintar ? I agree with you there. I like drawing me too dogs though as long as like you said they got an honest handler they're easy pickin's . They'll luck into one once in a while but for the most part nothing to worry about if you got a coondog

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 06-09-2015 11:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO

Maybe JUST MAYBE everyone realizes that UKC'S title still carries more prestige than the other ones that are out there and they want to change the rules so their type of dog can win in ukc?

Shirley..........you can't be serious.

Anybody that knows coon dogs knows better

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Posted by yadkintar on 06-09-2015 11:09 PM:

Yes and boy am I sunburnt we been catching those catfish fish tacos tonight but Its funny the older I have got its more about the way I win than just win at all cost if it's not a clear victory I don't want it lol!!!

Posted by Craig Edwards on 06-10-2015 12:10 AM:

There are a lot of hounds that take on the resemblance of whatever you hunt them with. They can't do it on their own, but if you put them with a good dog, they look good. Put them with a sorry dog, and they look sorry. They don't depend on their nose, ability, and brains.

For example, suppose your hound is locating, and there is a dog running with other dogs, but the me too hears your hound locate, leaves the other dogs, and with one whine, the handler trees it. You know it's not the same track, the handler knows it's not the same track...but you can't really prove what experience has taught you to know. The me-too walks away with a cast win, and is well on it's way to becoming a nt.ch. Many handlers know their dog is not capable of treeing a coon by itself, but they take it. Me too hounds can be pitched on track and tree, and will sometimes get lucky. When a me too dog wins a cast, it's not the dog winning/losing, but the handler winning/losing. I thought it was a reasonable question.

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Posted by Craig Edwards on 06-10-2015 12:25 AM:

Why would anyone want to claim a win their dog did not actually win, and down deep they know it ????? Not me!!!!

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Posted by pamjohnson on 06-10-2015 12:48 AM:

Craig it may be a reasonable ? but it doesn't really belong in your poll.
the hunts are a team effort. so yes the dog(you) deserves the win. just like if you mess up the dog (you) don't deserve to win.

after all that is the rules. honestly

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