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-- But how many hunts did it take ???? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928419335)

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Originally posted by AngelOfDeath
Let me see if I understand what you all are saying.Since this is a dream or pipe dream lets make everything equal.Take two little mate brother's owned own by the same person and had the same handler.Take those two dogs and hunt them in the same hunts against the same dogs.I know there can't be two winners at a hunt but since this is a whatever you want to call it.For the sake of this crazy idea some of you have lets say you can.Dog A makes grand nite champion in 8 hunts.His little mate brother Dog B makes grand nite champion in 48 hunts.Then take both dogs and breed them to the same female at the same time.One of those dual sired litters.This way everything is still equal.Are you all saying that the pups from Dog A will turn out better then the pups from Dog B simply because it took him less hunts to make grand nite champion? That is what it sounds like to me you are saying.If so that is well kind of dumb logic.In case some of you forgot you don't get the stud dog when you breed you get what he reproduces.Using the logic behind this plan if I understand it right.You are saying oh lets use Rat Attack for a example.If he never won a hunt in his life but was still bred to the same females it sounds like you are implying his pups would never won all the money they did since he never won a hunt in his life.I could care less what the dog won or whatever I am more interested in how its pups did

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Originally posted by yadkintar
you can make a Grntch winning 8 straight 1st places against stiff competition and it's not going to make them reproduce any better they either got it or they don't simple as that !!

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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John3:16

How bout this hunt with the dog if its impressive breed if not dont or breed your own dogs problem solved!!! if the stud dog owner wont hunt his dog dont breed to it period! This isnt an arubix cube they are dogs!! Breed for what you want to hunt. not to a stud dog to sell pups.

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Originally posted by rthompson
How bout this hunt with the dog if its impressive breed if not dont or breed your own dogs problem solved!!! if the stud dog owner wont hunt his dog dont breed to it period! This isnt an arubix cube they are dogs!! Breed for what you want to hunt. not to a stud dog to sell pups.

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Duuuuuuhhhhhhh!!!!! Lol

A person could simply breed to a
1. Proven reproducer
2. A dog they've personally hunted with & liked
3. The nearest stud available

The odds of having a successful cross are probably the same % on any choice you make.

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Shane

Thats the funniest thing yet!lol and not true to boot.

I can go to brian downings house breed to rudy and they will all make coondogs ive seen it with good females and poor ones they all run a track andHAVE the coon period.

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Originally posted by elvis
This may be a way to eliminate the same dog being hunted under different papers, provided the cast members verify the chip being read is the dog they hunted with.

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Somthing I never could understand was some people could run dog after dog at stud and people would run to them like they were gold plated those same studs when they were being Grntch they're owners would put paid handlers on them haul them out of state to those little 1 dog ntch cast if they did hunt around us we usually beat them really bad and next thing you know they said they sold them for a kagilliun dollars and sombody else studed them till they died in other words I think 99 percent of it is bull crap any way lol always a new generation of victims !!!

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
It also isn't just the dog, last I knew it was a TEAM of dog and HANDLER. lets face it some handlers can win with any old dog.--LOL




But It should be just the dog. That's part of the benefits to having access to hunt records.

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I think this COULD refleck the handle more than the dog.

Most people that breed to these dogs are breeding junk females then if they are just buying a pup they ruin it anyway so why does it matter what the stud is. personally very rarely will i even give a pup a chance if i havent hunted with both parents! But people are just lazy and dont wanna hunt with what they have bred to.

The sad thing is all the young coonhunters that have to look forward to all this crap. Whatever happen to good ol coonhounds and the trophy was always up a tree.

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Originally posted by Joel martin
The sad thing is all the young coonhunters that have to look forward to all this crap. Whatever happen to good ol coonhounds and the trophy was always up a tree.

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Na the smart ones catch on quick to this bs

Yes and a lot of the younger hunters are content to hunt in a one hour $$$ hunt and get struck off of the lead and make what I call (circle slicks ) for money you don't have to hunt a dog through week to do that!!!! kind of like golf aww heck you got it within 25 ft of the hole kick it in and lets go to the club house and get some more beer !!!

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Originally posted by rthompson
Na the smart ones catch on quick to this bs

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Well i comp. hunt some i like the competion but will not win by cheating i see it like this i have nothing to prove they do!lol

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Yes and a lot of the younger hunters are content to hunt in a one hour $$$ hunt and get struck off of the lead and make what I call (circle slicks ) for money you don't have to hunt a dog through week to do that!!!! kind of like golf aww heck you got it within 25 ft of the hole kick it in and lets go to the club house and get some more beer !!!

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Shane

I think this is a terrible idea. I go to a lot of clubs just to participate and the comrade. If it effected my dogs papers then I wouldn't go as much. A lot of people would do the same. And its hard enough now to get a good turn out. Specially wit the cheats. Ruinin a good time. And people wouldn't let they're kids handle anymore.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
you can make a Grntch winning 8 straight 1st places against stiff competition and it's not going to make them reproduce any better they either got it or they don't simple as that !!

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The Outlaw Dottie

I would agree that some of the information mentioned in the original post would be a decent tool for selective breeding but if I was going to that detail, I would prefer to know a little more about the style of dog I was considering, such as how many first strikes, 2nd strikes, 3rd strikes etc. how many 1st trees, 2nd trees etc. Then break that down to how many 1st trees plussed, 2nd trees plussed per cast, how many were minused per cast, how many were circled per cast.

I would then have better information as to if the dog I'm interested in is an above, average, or below average strike dog, as well as is this dog an above, average, or below average 1st tree dog, and then I would also know a little more about the dogs accuracy by the number of 1st tree plus/minus points. I would also learn a little more about the dogs independence by determining the number of 2nd, or 3rd tree points the dog accumulated in a particular cast, or by totaling all the trees scored while in competition.

All this information is available on a scorecard, but it will take time and money to get that information tabulated and placed into a computer program that would readily spit it out at a moments notice for all to review.

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ukc does not get a list of every dog that hunted.. only the winners.. if you had to send a list of every dog that hunted you would have twice as much paperwork on moh.. then ukc would have to charge more for papers an things cuz they need to hire new person to take care of this extra work load.. an it wouldnt mean a dang thing. cuz even good dogs have bad nights... an everybody that complains bout ukc woulod b complaining more... hears an idea, if u wana buy a dog go hunting with it.. if you wana breed a dog go hunting with it... this has worked for many yrs.. to many coonhunters wana internet hunt more then go hunting.. i just got in from hunting.. was good night.. treed coon, an dog didnt have a usb port to transfer info to my computer.

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Well, the way I see it there is nothing wrong with getting as much information as you can...but applying it is a whole other task. If you have the "Coonhound Bloodlines" magazines you can go back and see the wins, scores and hunt locations of a particular dog.
It is easy to say, "why not just go hunt with the dog and see for yourself??" Or my favorite lie..."I never breed to anything unless I hunt with it first." Great ideas, but just a little bit slightly impractical, don't ya think?????
There are a lot of dogs I would love to go hunt with, but Indiana, Illinois and Texas is a bit far from where I live to jump in the old truck, cruise on out there and knock on someone's door.
Guys that make these claims have to be limiting themselves to local dogs and sometimes the local dog really is the best...but not too often.
I don't believe there is enough houndsmen willing to pay what it will cost to get the type of info from UKC, so I am not going to hold my breath waiting for it.
I remember back in the mid 80's there was an "off color" famous stud dog that was the be all, end all of that breed. Everyone was breeding to him, he was bragged up and the owner spent a lot of money promoting this dog with professionally prepared ads, etc. I researched the dog as best I could and found that contrary to what those ads said, in the back of Bloodlines where the wins are listed this dog got every one of his wins at the small local club. Less than 10 dogs per hunt, and this was back when 16-24 was the average at a small hunt. His last hunt was the one that made him grand. This dog did produce a few good dogs, but in reality he was a mediocre stud dog at best. Towards the end was when UKC came out with the P.A.D. papers. That information and the hunt wins wasn't being looked at by others at the time. The owner continued to breed him until he dropped dead.