UKC Forums - Dog Fighting Question

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Posted by Greg Burks on 03-31-2015 06:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Outback1
usually the man who owns the aggressive dog knows it, if he would just man up and say so, instead of saying "he aint never done that before" when in fact he knows the dog is ill. I would say scratch both unless the handler man's up and take his scratch like a big boy and admit he has a ill dog. imo

Posted by gdo on 03-31-2015 06:40 PM:

fighting

Not to change the subject but how often do you hear my dog better be there when I get there no matter what or if he don't have enough gritt to stay I don't want him or he will tree with anything or they cant put ole so and so of the tree and he better have staying power etc. Tell me any reason why a dog should have to fight to stay at the tree its all about who has the best dog and who has done there job training there dog to tree a coon not to fight to stay. This is so common just the other day I was in a hunt my dog was treed by himself another dog never even ran the track just came in to the tree and I found my dog off the tree and I'll just say by looking at his head and ears you could tell what happened other dog gets that coon scored.Everyone says cant do anything about it and I know this because it aint my first rodeo, after the hunt was over one guy said if you got a comp dog he better stay with any thing.Thats the problem comp or pleasure dog it don't matter if you cant hunt it Monday - Friday with your buddies young pup or three other males then in my opion you don't have a comp dog.No comp do should have to fight to stay on his tree.

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Posted by Charles Pullen on 03-31-2015 07:02 PM:

Simple solution

Hunt a B&T then you wouldn't have this problem !

Posted by gdo on 03-31-2015 07:49 PM:

I do hunt B&T's but it don't matter what your hunting they should not have to fight period to hunt in a hunt and its not just one breed I've seen it in them all.

Posted by Carl Fox on 03-31-2015 08:59 PM:

i am sure Todd or someone from ukc will step in and answer this question on which the answer has never changed hunters just let the judge get away with changing it.

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Posted by blackflagginit on 03-31-2015 09:26 PM:

Re: Re: Dog Fighting Question

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
A very simple question with a very simple, one word answer. And yet we got 5 saying scratch the Bluetick and 5 giving the right answer. So 50% are wrong. Not good.

mehhh I know the "right" answer, but its no fun to just repeat advisor stuff on here. its more fun to type out what happens as often as not. I would say in casts across the country on any given weekend half the time the bluetick would be scratched and half the time both would.

heck I even remember spectating on a breed days cast once where the "off color" dog (who was winning the cast btw) was scratched on made up charges (there never was a fight or any aggression at all) and once he left the other 3 handlers remarked that's what it got for showing up at "there hunt".

the TRUE answer to the question as posed is that BOTH dogs have to be scratched because we know there was a fight and we DONT know who started it.

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Posted by Tony Dominguez on 03-31-2015 09:34 PM:

Well since the walker dog handler wanted to get them scratched I called it to a vote. He didn't so much want to get me scratched, he said that the bluetick started it & that he's the 1 that should be scratched. I could have done that & got to hunt by myself for 1:40 min but why do that when that's not how it happened. What's right is right & wrong is wrong.

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Posted by Ol Grump on 03-31-2015 10:17 PM:

I haven't had this scenario happen, I was just stating red and blue dog for reference.... I don't know what doughboy talkin' bout^^^

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Posted by Miles on 04-01-2015 01:59 AM:

Fighting dogs

Just put the dogs back on the tree, one at the time. Problem solved.

Posted by msinc on 04-01-2015 02:36 AM:

Re: Fighting dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Miles
Just put the dogs back on the tree, one at the time. Problem solved.

This is never recommended...in doing so you prove absolutely nothing as far as what happened previously that is done and over and you might just start an unnecessary dog fight with different dogs.
Mr. Hartline, I agree the handlers should be barred as well as the dogs...the dogs cannot enter themselves in a hunt!!!!!

Posted by jackbob42 on 04-01-2015 02:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by blackflagginit
........

we only saw BOTH of the requirements for scratching for fighting from 1 dog here........

You are confused.
Those are the requirements for scratching a dog for " ATTEMPTING " to fight.

You can't assume anything.
If you don't know 100% for sure who the aggressor is , you MUST scratch ALL dogs involved.

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Posted by Clif Owen on 04-01-2015 03:04 AM:

I'm pretty sure the rule reads to scratch both if aggressor isn't known.
And if you put the dogs back on the tree; all you will see is who starts the SECOND fight. Not the original.
I had one scratched in a RQE once for face barking because there was some friction on first tree. He wasn't an angel but didn't cause this. I stayed with cast and later on, 2 of them rolled...not face barked..they ROLLED. Still was the only dog scratched because even though it was evident which 2 were involved, nothing was seen. I actually owe one of them an apology. I thought his dog must have been rough because the other was a female. Turns out, she was mean as a rabid rattlesnake! I know other guys that hunted with her later.

Posted by Slowpoke 2012 on 04-01-2015 03:48 AM:

Fighting

I've seen a handful of dog fights at Nite Hunts. Never seen one get scratched.

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Posted by anycolor4us on 04-01-2015 05:29 AM:

uh huh

Buy Rule Both Gone

Usually the Handlers know who the aggressor is. That being said; there are some folks whom take pride in dragging their tree jumpers an Alligators to the Hunts. This is one subject that is Relative to the death of our sport . I've put a lot of thought into this very subject over many years. will have to admit I've never found a good solution.
In most case's If one dog is scratched It is the wrong one.

Trying not discourage the young and new folks to the sport and changing practice's of some of the less than sportsman like is a fine line. The rules are there on the back of the score card and are very clear. One thing that is allowed to happen far too often is they are allowed to withdraw the dogs to avoid the write up.

It is absolutely unsportsmanlike to drag a tree jumper to a hunt or a Gator. A handler whom is hauling one to a hunt that they've worked on and light broke etc. Absolutely should be sanctioned in some way.

when there are so many out there that have quit our sport Just for this reason It should tell us something. Most of us know someone who no longer attends or participates any longer over something to do with this subject.

None of that put them back on the tree one at a time and hold them back and let them go crap is in the rules lol

More nonsense

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Posted by Rolin Blues on 04-01-2015 05:51 AM:

Fighting

No dog should have to 'defend itself' to stay on a tree. If they do & judges in your area let aggressors get away with it, they (judges) need reported to UKC & get a 'time out', just like my grandkids. If 2 dogs are on ground, when you get there, They are BOTH scratched- NO if, and or buts about it.

Tony, from what you say, I would have done the same thing, but would have made it VERY clear to the handler of the blue dog that there had better be no other issues during this hunt or you're gone. Since you had hunted with them before, I'm sure you just considered iy a one time deal & figured nothing more was going to happen anyway.

To anyone that sees a fight & never writes the dogs up, you need a whole different set of judges in your area. That's why people don't come back to hunts & your judges need a bigger set of b___s, if they let aggressive get away with it, without writting a dog up. JMO. Take care, Ron.

Posted by Ol Grump on 04-01-2015 06:14 AM:

I don't know what Mr. Dominguez is talking about. I asked a question and he blew up talking about some cast he was in..

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Posted by Ol Grump on 04-01-2015 06:17 AM:

Yeeeooow

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Posted by DylanHovey on 04-01-2015 07:13 AM:

Re: fighting

quote:
Originally posted by gdo
Not to change the subject but how often do you hear my dog better be there when I get there no matter what or if he don't have enough gritt to stay I don't want him or he will tree with anything or they cant put ole so and so of the tree and he better have staying power etc. Tell me any reason why a dog should have to fight to stay at the tree its all about who has the best dog and who has done there job training there dog to tree a coon not to fight to stay. This is so common just the other day I was in a hunt my dog was treed by himself another dog never even ran the track just came in to the tree and I found my dog off the tree and I'll just say by looking at his head and ears you could tell what happened other dog gets that coon scored.Everyone says cant do anything about it and I know this because it aint my first rodeo, after the hunt was over one guy said if you got a comp dog he better stay with any thing.Thats the problem comp or pleasure dog it don't matter if you cant hunt it Monday - Friday with your buddies young pup or three other males then in my opion you don't have a comp dog.No comp do should have to fight to stay on his tree.

Well this past weekend there was a cast where the winner won $42,500. Say if I was luck enough To be on that cast and mine is treed 7 tenths in there for the win if she has a coon. If something rough comes in there, I don't give a dern if Bigfoot comes and covers by God she better be there when we get there.

There are always going to be mean dogs whether you are at a hunt or pleasure hunting with your buddy up the road.

Posted by blackflagginit on 04-01-2015 01:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Clif Owen
I thought his dog must have been rough because the other was a female. Turns out, she was mean as a rabid rattlesnake! I know other guys that hunted with her later.

the two roughest dogs I ever saw were both female.

one was a true alligator who would rumble with a buzzsaw if it treed with her, the other never started a fight in her life but never lost one either. ever. in fact she broke a lot of dogs from wanting to fight again over the years.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 04-01-2015 03:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blackflagginit
The other never started a fight in her life but never lost one either. ever. in fact she broke a lot of dogs from wanting to fight again over the years.

Who can blame her.

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Posted by H. L. Meyer on 04-01-2015 03:58 PM:

blackflagginit

Let's take a little from the great Robert E Lee.....
It is well that fighting is not to terrable, beacuse we have become so use to it......... WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE COON HOUND WORLD HAS BECOME SO CONFORTABLE WITH OWNING A FIGHTING DOG?. WHAT IS THE BIG EGO BOOST IN SAYING MY DOG WON'T START ANYTHING BUT IT BETTER NOT TAKE ANYTHING EITHER WHERE IS THE REASONING IN THAT?. Scratch the dog and handler then bar both on first offence it is not easy to clean up this mess but U can bet this would be a starting point. NOW this brings up a different situation WHERE can we find MEN that have the baw%^&%^s to handle this. You see now days we have a lot of females, and males in this world BUT only a FEW Ladies and even fewer MEN. EXCUSES HAS BECOME THE ANSWER TO ALL THE TROUBLE NOW DAYS.

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Posted by blackflagginit on 04-01-2015 05:30 PM:

H. L.

I never once entered either of those females in a night hunt. in fact I only owned the later in her old age, and never owned a hair on the buzz saw. the buzz saw was a true pro at it and never once got scratched, even though it won several major hunts' and was cast hunted for years. it could eat a dog up and you would never hear a sound from her end. a BUNCH of people tried to catch her over the years but nobody ever could.

I have only ever had 1 dog scratched for fighting, and it never got another one and never had anymore issues either. most of the dogs I ever cast hunted were the type who would stand back from a gator on the first tree, then hunt alone the rest of the night on the other side of the road or woods. I always preferred that type or just a plain out loner who avoided the rest of the cast all night and was always treed somewhere off alone.

Posted by gdo on 04-01-2015 09:03 PM:

Re: Re: fighting

quote:
Originally posted by DylanHovey
Well this past weekend there was a cast where the winner won $42,500. Say if I was luck enough To be on that cast and mine is treed 7 tenths in there for the win if she has a coon. If something rough comes in there, I don't give a dern if Bigfoot comes and covers by God she better be there when we get there.

There are always going to be mean dogs whether you are at a hunt or pleasure hunting with your buddy up the road.

What if you are at work and some one beats your a$$ and takes your position and your boss says sorry I didn't see it you need more staying power if your gonna work here.My buddies don't hunt mean dogs and if they get one that is they don't hunt it long.And its fine with the guy at the hunt that has the mean dog as long as his is the meanest but when your dog comes out on top you then are the one with the mean dog.

Posted by pamjohnson on 04-02-2015 01:03 AM:

this is a touchy subject for sure. people get upset quick. some of the posts make me wounder how much some people hunt? if you hunt enough you will have a dog show aggression sooner or later. so what your gona quit hunting.or quit going to the hunts. yea right thats the reason. or you & your dog should be bared on the first offence. really?
if you hunt enough sooner or later you may be on either end of the situation don't you think? deserveing or not!
who's breeding walks on water?which hunter walks on water?

Posted by gdo on 04-02-2015 06:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
this is a touchy subject for sure. people get upset quick. some of the posts make me wounder how much some people hunt? if you hunt enough you will have a dog show aggression sooner or later. so what your gona quit hunting.or quit going to the hunts. yea right thats the reason. or you & your dog should be bared on the first offence. really?
if you hunt enough sooner or later you may be on either end of the situation don't you think? deserveing or not!
who's breeding walks on water?which hunter walks on water?

You are 100% correct if you hunt long enough you will see aggression likely sooner than later no big deal and I agree no one should be bared on the first offence.What I think what a lot of people are saying we as hunters should have enough honer among us to not continue to hunt a dog every weekend that has a major problem. I'm a firm believer at some point you will reap what you sow.

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