UKC Forums - For Breeders ( Discussion)

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Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 02-08-2015 06:53 PM:

Ed, those are man made charts that track by recorded information, I wish someone smarter than me would come up with EPD'S for hounds.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Posted by yadkintar on 02-08-2015 06:56 PM:

You might get some of those things but good luck getting all of it I been trying for years and only got it once !!!

Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 02-08-2015 07:44 PM:

Yadkintar, These three are making me happy now.The little female on top is half sister to the one in the middle and will be bred to him as soon as she comes in.
Hardwood Jane- top
Grnite Ch. Paulding Forest Bubba- middle
GrniteCh. Hardwood Ranger- bottom

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Posted by dawgg03 on 02-08-2015 07:55 PM:

You can get those traits in a dog. But it's work won't happen over night. People want keep the best in a litter and cull the rest they settle for less to fast. People don't realize the work involved and commitment it takes. It does not happen over night or in a couple of breedings a good line like your talking about takes dedication to have the best you can produce. A vision of what can be and line breeding is only way you can get those traits time and again with any consistency track, tree, mouth, hunt, brains. You can't produce all of these breeding all over the place and do it consistently every breeding. As you said before Conrad you knew what your pups would sound like their hunt their track their brains and knew consistently. Most people today breed and say hope he's got A good mouth hope their smart. You can know .

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Mike McKinney

I use Sunfire lights

Posted by Larry Atherton on 02-08-2015 08:11 PM:

No matter if you outcross, line-breed, or in-bred the only way to breed the traits we want is to get pickier with our breeding stock.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Posted by yadkintar on 02-08-2015 08:21 PM:

Boy them are some good looking dogs like I said I only got it once he was the type dog that no matter who I drew he always gave me the opportunity to win the stiffer the competition the better he shined I picked him out the day he was born not saying I haven't raised some good dogs but was close to having it all he dual granded in woods where other dogs had trouble treeing a coon with big scores and you didn't have to be a good handler I keep trying but I will probly never have another like him ( good luck with your dogs it is really satisfying to do it yourself )

Posted by jay brademeyer on 02-08-2015 09:20 PM:

Y'all must be pretty smart.sounds like most of you have this breeding deal figured out...I've been scratching my head and my butt for 30years and i still don't know my head from my butt when it come to breeding coondogs ... I think we just get lucky sometimes..lol, because anytime i thought i had it figured out.... i fell flat on my face... Keep dreaming fellas..lol.. I bet most of us would be better off culling than breeding... :~)

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JAMES RIVER HOUND KENNEL
JAY BRADEMEYER 701 308 0490
Home of the late Ntch Lipper's Lip Lock Lizzy, Ntch Moonshiners Sassy, and 88 Walker Days Winner Grntch Ceder Hill Sass

"Building on a solid foundation starts on the bottom side"

Posted by rthompson on 02-08-2015 09:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jay brademeyer
Y'all must be pretty smart.sounds like most of you have this breeding deal figured out...I've been scratching my head and my butt for 30years and i still don't know my head from my butt when it come to breeding coondogs ... I think we just get lucky sometimes..lol, because anytime i thought i had it figured out.... i fell flat on my face... Keep dreaming fellas..lol.. I bet most of us would be better off culling than breeding... :~)

but it doesnt help the breed at all if you have a hot shot stud dog and breed every pot licker in the country just to make a little cash have enough sense to say no im not breeding to that piece of crap if more did that i might like sweat it dogs!

Posted by jay brademeyer on 02-08-2015 09:37 PM:

That would be the responsibility of the owner of the bitch wouldn't it ?.. How is a stud dog owner suppose to know what the female is....the breeder is the owner of the bitch not the stud dog owner... But that being said you are absolutely right.i am sure there are many females that are bred that shouldn't be...that is for sure... But if you don't like sweat it that is up to you.. Allot of people do and so so i. thanks, Jay

Posted by rthompson on 02-08-2015 09:54 PM:

Thats a load not just for denying responsability its a money thing plain and simple. anybody that has any sense about hounds should see this ive tried alot of pups out of "top studs" and dint know why people pay ten cents for those pups. im sure there are great dogs out of these studs but in mans search for fame and glory and riches the stud dog owners dont care what gets bred do some research on what your getting if your buying pups alot of dogs are manmade i listened to a well known stub dog owner say you can wright anything u want in the ad cause 99% of people will never hunt with him.

Posted by jay brademeyer on 02-08-2015 10:01 PM:

that's your opinion. If the stud Businesses that lucrative you should jump on in..lol

Posted by rthompson on 02-08-2015 10:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jay brademeyer
that's your opinion. If the stud Businesses that lucrative you should jump on in..lol

i havnt seen many.females id wanna hunt a pup out of so why would i do that if i wouldnt hunt it i wouldnt expect some one else to .and you said it " stud dog business".

Posted by jay brademeyer on 02-08-2015 10:19 PM:

so what is it that you hunt? And what are the contributions you've made to bettering the breed?

Posted by yadkintar on 02-08-2015 10:26 PM:

Jay I tried the stud dog buisness started out with a world champion could have bought a brand new pickup with what I spent could have bought a 600 dollar junker with what I made !!!! I was told by a wise man one time don't talk bad about another mans stud dog the mans initials were jb !!!!!!

Posted by jay brademeyer on 02-08-2015 10:37 PM:

I remember that. Lol if I remember right I got a little riled up that day. Lol

Posted by rthompson on 02-08-2015 10:39 PM:

You wouldnt know them jay local dogs. as far as contributions few only raised a few litters of pups but i hunt what i like and im hard to suit i will say this you name is on alot more sets of papers than mine by far and im not usually so vocal but responsible breeding is everybodys responsability.

Posted by jay brademeyer on 02-08-2015 10:51 PM:

Your right, but there is no way a stud dog owner can know how good or bad every female that is brought in is...you have to hope the breeder is trying to make good pups with a good female breeding to the stud of their choice.. Agreed ? And stud dog owners can only hope they spark the interest of those breeders with the super bitches..
...i think we have derailed this mans thread far enough.. Sorry. :~)

Posted by yadkintar on 02-08-2015 10:53 PM:

Yes but you were right both us are really picky about what we like to hunt but I was serious I you ever breed lizzy to one of those dogs off rattler I want one!

Posted by davebastean on 02-08-2015 10:59 PM:

Re: For Breeders ( Discussion)

quote:
Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Went back and read a article by a man that was a remarkable family( line bred) breeder and here were some of his notes, thought I would pass them along. I have found everything he said thru the years to be true.

Quotes: It is almost impossible to breed anything that have allot of different genes in them.

Genes that affect your look and performance go back mostly to 4 generations. Try and lock the 4 generations.

Intelligent Selection is the name of the game.

Environment is 50%.( wow!)

Most families are ruined by adding a new blood or by making a bad choice in the ones you breed back.

The ones you choose to breed back, without allot of mixed up genes to deal with you will see the good characteristics passed on to the next generation.

__________________
'' BREEDING , BIG ,BOLD,BEAUTIFUL BAWL MOUTH TREEING WALKERS''

I think this sums it up pretty well. This is why I believe a lot of the X-bred crosses will end up being disappointing to a lot of people. There will be a winner here and there but it will be a crap shoot at best.

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Home of:
Ch.Gr.Nite Ch. Missouri Black Smokey R.I.P. - (Gr.Nt.Ch.Kansas Hayes X Gr.Nt.Ch. Blackwater Ruby Too) Past Top Ten Reproducers List
Nite Ch.Tree Slammin Izzy
Treego's Smokin Bo (One-eye X Treego)

Posted by jay brademeyer on 02-08-2015 10:59 PM:

Yadkintar That would be great. But i have something else up my sleeve...:~)

Posted by yadkintar on 02-08-2015 11:06 PM:

There's a boy down here that hunts with me has a little female off of dr law and a female off my old deacon dog ( lipper x rattler cross ) she don't weigh 45 pounds soaking wet loud loud loud action packed treeing machine if she don't kill us you will hear about her !!

Posted by jay brademeyer on 02-08-2015 11:12 PM:

That is some good line breeding there.....

Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 02-09-2015 12:52 AM:

Intelligent Selection, This point stands out to me, I have to ask myself before I breed a female do I like most everything about her? If I get a litter of pups like her am I alright?
Is she consistent with what her mother was?

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

Posted by rthompson on 02-09-2015 12:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Intelligent Selection, This point stands out to me, I have to ask myself before I breed a female do I like most everything about her? If I get a litter of pups like her am I alright?
Is she consistent with what her mother was?

amen smartest person on here!!!!!!

Posted by CONRAD FRYAR on 02-09-2015 11:39 AM:

rthompson, I don't know about smart, made mistakes and have tried to figure out how to fix them. Also do not have to re-invent the wheel. Spent countless hours listing to Ole timers who had what I wanted.

__________________
Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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