UKC Forums - Super Crosses

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-- Super Crosses (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928407077)

Posted by mmarshall on 02-03-2015 04:48 PM:

Bad boy Bo
Bow d and shocks brother
Rip was bred to todie
Rip was bred to cherry bomb
Cherry litter will be a sc her mom is off a sc her dad is off a sc both her grand moms is off a sc
Rip x cherry is full of super crosses
btk x amber hersh billy nighty night billy and outlaw Bj

__________________
mark marshall

favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

Posted by Sawblade on 02-03-2015 05:00 PM:

remember

Richard , remember those top 50 reproducer lists . Read them and look at what dogs and what lines are contained in those and it becomes clear that certain families carry the traits to throw good ones. I believe all good quality dogs can be improved on reguardless of their bloodline but it takes planning and a little luck.
To me it's as simple as going with what seems to have worked for others and staying with high % dogs. I used Yellow River stuff when I started raising pups because Rocky/ Maggie dogs had been winning everything and that cross was one of the best ever made. Later I tried Rat /Raven stuff all the while making sure the female side had the big name females in it. It worked for the most part. I guess that was the luck part but I think planning was the biggest key.
Many other people have went on with dogs from here and produced good hounds . Look at what they bred to and most times you can see they had a very simular plan.

It's in the blood ,pay attention to the families that have the blood.

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,

They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-03-2015 05:24 PM:

Re: remember

quote:
Originally posted by Sawblade
Richard , remember those top 50 reproducer lists . Read them and look at what dogs and what lines are contained in those

Kelly, where can I read them? Have they been updated lately? I don't remember seeing Chilli or Steve-O on them.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-03-2015 05:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
Cherry litter will be a sc her mom is off a sc her dad is off a sc both her grand moms is off a sc
Rip x cherry is full of super crosses

That is for sure. This will certainly be a cross to keep an eye on.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-03-2015 06:33 PM:

Where are those Pepper Power guys? I left out Turkey. He is from a super cross. His sire, Rocker, is from a super cross. I think that his dam, Roxy, is from a super cross. It will be interesting to see what his pups do. The Turkey X Zoe cross will be one to watch in the future.

Posted by RedScorpion on 02-03-2015 08:27 PM:

Rocky x Bembe

The Rocky x Bembe cross sure seems to have worked... there's that Sawblade again!

__________________
Home of the Red Solo Cup

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-03-2015 08:35 PM:

Re: Rocky x Bembe

quote:
Originally posted by RedScorpion
The Rocky x Bembe cross sure seems to have worked... there's that Sawblade again!

How many titled dogs are in the Rocky X Bembe cross so far? Is Bembe from a supercross? How many titled dogs were in her litter?

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-03-2015 08:40 PM:

Nt.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man.
A year and a half old and already winning. 4 gen all Grand pedigree where almost all of his ancestors are from super crosses. Look at his pedigree and think of the litters that all of those dogs came from and how well the litter turned out. Most are from litters with multiple titled dogs. The litter G-Man is from has two that have already started winning and 2-3 more who will hit the hunts this spring. I wouldn't be surprised to see 3-5 pups from this litter wind up with titles. I have said for some time now that my breeding program uses the best females as a foundation and that I like to see multiple dogs from the litters they are from be titled winners. Not that a dog from a litter where it was the only good one cant reproduce.....but I personally feel like dogs from high % litters will reproduce high % litters. This is one area we as redbone breeders have plenty of room for improvement. In the past we have averaged 1-2 good solid dogs per litter that have been able to win and title out ( as per reproducer list %)
I know there are a lot of variables involved in those percentages....some dont get competition hunted, some never get hunted at all, many good ones get killed on the road etc. But if we use our heads and do our homework and make the best crosses we can based on facts and results we have tracked over years....we can produce higher percentage litters. But even if we do this....to prove that we are increasing the % of good dogs on average....we must strive to get them into the hands of people who are willing to put in the hard work, time, and money to give the pups a genuine fair chance to realize their full potential. I am glad when I see threads like this one.....threads that get people thinking and fact checking and looking at reproducer lists and tracing back dogs through several generations to identify recurring patterns.
Its good stuff guys and it helps bring the breed closer together so more people can work together to improve it.....and that is what will keep us moving forward. Our goal should never be to have the best redbone....it should always be to have the best coonhound...regardless of breed!

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by Roger Hall on 02-03-2015 09:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I forgot about Rip. He has only been bred once hasn't he?

Richard, Rip has been bred four times. The first litter just turned a year old. All of them are running and treeing and one sold for $1500. The second litter is about six months old and some of them are running and treeing. He was bred to Toadie and there still babies but will get after a cage coon. Then he was bred to Cherry Bomb a few weeks ago.

__________________
RAGGED RIDGE REDBONES
WORKING WITH THE SAME BLOOD LINE SINCE 1962

WE HAVE PUPS, STARTED AND FINSHED DOGS FROM TIME to TIME

2014 (2nd Place) Youth World Champion
UKC Grand Ch. Grand Nite Ch. Ragged Ridge Rip

UKC Gr.NiteCh. Ragged Ridge Toadie
2015 Youth World Champion
2013 Youth World Champion
2015 National Redbone Days Champion
2013 National Redbone Days Op. Sex Ch.
2012 Autumn Oaks High Sc. Redbone Female
2014 AKC IN. State Ch.
2014 AKC IN. State Youth Ch.
UKC Nite Ch. Ragged Ridge Katie Kate

R.I.P. Dual Grand Champion Ragged Ridge CD
2002 World Champion Redbone 8th Place
Current #1 Reproducer before he died.

R.I.P. Ragged Ridge Jynx
UKC Nite Ch.
AKC Senior Retired Gr. Nite Ch.
2004 World Champion Redbone (3rd place)

Roger Hall1-740-655-2394
e-mail= acoonhunter1@hotmail.com
Brent Posey1-614-309-5092
John Queen 1-828-803-1245
Keith Bowling 1-812-525-1223

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-03-2015 09:33 PM:

Rip is a solid balanced coon dog with a bottom side full of some of the best reproducing females in the breed. He is a consistent winner and people should be looking at him more as a stud dog. I helped get Rip collected and stored and I thought enough of him after hunting him awhile to pay for a collection for my own use in the future. I predict we will see some big winners out of Rip in the future. He is also one of the best built dogs I have seen...even at 8 years old the dog looks like a three year old.

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 02-04-2015 05:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I forgot about Rip. He has only been bred once hasn't he? Which supercross is Hersh's Billy out of? Has Bow been bred to any females? I haven't seen them advertised as a stud. Who are Clouds titled littermates? He certainly has a supercross pedigree. Bo is gone, sadly.

Richard, you are right my Beyond Billy has not been advertised at stud. he is off the BTK/AMBER cross
My question is what just qualifies as a SUPER CROSS?? there are many different ideas as to what makes one.

__________________
Herschel Burt

hershtwo@yahoo.com
Life member NRA
Current dogs
GR CH NT CH RED MIGHTY 90-Bo/Sierra
NT.CH.GR CH BEYOND BILLY HTX --Billy the Kid/ Amber
GR CH 1ST & 2ND place wins 90/4 LIFE GUN-HTX==-Willy BOY/Bigtime Britt
Dogs I have owned
Nt ch Gr ch HERSHS HUNTIN RED IKE
NT CH CH HERSHS HUNTIN BUDDY
GR NT CH MILLERS DIRTY RED
NT CH CH LYNN'S CREEK JULIE
GR CH HERSHS HUNTIN RED KATE
CH NITE CH AMBRAW RIVER TIMBER ROCK
NT CH HERSHS HUNTIN RED CLEM
NT CH ROCKY TOP CHERRY

Posted by mmarshall on 02-04-2015 05:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
crosses with at least 3 or more titled dogs and 1 or 2 of them being "UKC big hunt" winners. "proven"

Posted by jkhutch on 02-04-2015 06:58 PM:

If these known "Super Crosses" work so good, why are they not made more often. The Stevo and Chili has seemed to work well as a repeat cross. So would this be known as a "Super Dooper Cross". .

__________________
Jared Hutcheson
Indiana
Redbones:
GRNTCH PKC Ch PR Hutch's Big Walnut Boone HTX DNA-V(Haze X Reba)-
2 Time UKC World Top 100
UKC World Top 20 (13th)
UKC Purina Redbone of the year
PKC Redbone CH
UKC Top Producers List
UKC Winter Classic High Scoring Redbone
Co owned with Richard Lambert

GrNtCh PKC Ch One Chance Fancy- (Boone X Toadie)
2018 Autumn Oaks Grand 16
2018 Grand National Redbone
2018 Redbones Days RQE 1st Place

Walkers-
NTCh PKC CH Jeb�s Finley River Peanut- Co owned with Bishop Stallcop
Claremont PKC Legacy hunt Final 4
PKC Breeders Showcase Final 4

Posted by mmarshall on 02-04-2015 08:04 PM:

Very good ?
I'm a fan of the one and done my thought is I know what that got me can I do better
Not that my way of thinking is right just my nature im never satisfied and and give my self a lot of options on down the line
It would interesting to here why some choose to repeat it several times beside because it worked

Posted by Sawblade on 02-04-2015 09:27 PM:

Think about

I like the idea of half brother half sister cross .It has worked many times . If you never breed your good female to another stud you will not be able to make that cross based on the female side of the ped. Just something to think about. I would love to see a Chilli/ SteveO male bred to a Chilli/ "Name your stud" female.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 02-04-2015 09:59 PM:

Kate was crossed on several different males as was her daughter pepper Ann and pepper Anns daughter Amber.....look at all the crosses and options for crosses that has created just within that line. We have been crossing half brothers to half sisters, aunts to nephews, and nieces to uncles with some really good results. If you look back in the pedigrees of many truly dominant reproducers....you usually find that one or both parents were line bred somewhere back in their pedigrees. Speaking as a breeder who has some good females....its nice to have lots of options....really nice!

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-04-2015 11:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
I'm a fan of the one and done. My thought is I know what that got me can I do better?

There are 2 schools of thought: "the one and done" and the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I don't think that you could prove that one is any better than the other. There are just two didderent opinions.

Kelly, be careful what you ask for. Chilli is pretty tight linebred and the Chilli X Steve-O offspring have pretty common traits from what I have seen. I don't know if you would want to double up on or linebreed them without a couple of well thought out outcrosses.

Hershell, Beyond Billy is still kinda young to judge his litter yet. That is one of the problems with breeding. They have to get some time/age on them before you can really tell.

Posted by Sawblade on 02-05-2015 01:30 AM:

example

Not sure what your talking about Richard ,Here is what I mean

.....................NiteCh Pr Wild Willie
.............GrNiteCh Hastings Hollar Oak Steve-O
.....................GRNiteCh Willards Mighty Sue
.......GrNiteCh Jones Punk
.....................NiteCh Millcreek's Yellow River Dan
.............Jones Yellow River Chilli
.....................NiteCh Millcreeks Dancin Red Bailey

pup

....................GrNiteCh Soggy Bottom T-Top Haze
..............GrNiteCh Hutch's Big Walnut Boone
.....................NiteCh Ragged Ridge Reba
........Female
.....................NiteCh Millscreek Yellow River Dan
.............Jones Yellow River Chilli
.....................NiteCh Millcreek's Dancin Red Bailey

Half Brother half sister cross. I'm not saying this should be done . It is just an example of what I was talking about. ...HMMM looks pretty good tho. That's what call line breeding on an outcross.

Posted by kasey dooly on 02-05-2015 02:40 AM:

SUPER CROSS: IMO, is a cross made and the majority of the people that get a pup from this cross are satisfied with the pups, whether competition hunters or pleasure hunters. Now that's a SUPER CROSS!

Posted by Crazy Luke on 02-05-2015 03:47 AM:

LBOC

So i guess this is what you are talking about Kelly.

��..Gr Nt Banjo 3
��Gr Nt Pigeon River Jim
��..Nt Ch Heidi
Pups
��Gr Nt Banjo 3
�..Nt Ch Mandy II
��Nt Ch Mandolin

Posted by Richard Lambert on 02-05-2015 02:25 PM:

Kelly, that looks good on paper but you have to look at traits also when you do that. It would all depend on what the female looked like in the woods. You also might consider whether she was from a supercross or what her littermates were doing. You can call any cross a supercross if you want to. Everyone has their own qualifications. In the end, I guess what matters is if everyone else thinks that it is a supercross. I think that my Moose X Wendy was a supercross but it doesn't meet the qualifications and very few other people think that it is.

Posted by mmarshall on 02-05-2015 02:46 PM:

Kelly Lucas those should work
Those are the very type of crosses we and others have done off the three sc on Kate we are now hunting crosses that are three four gen of super crosses
And I agree I think it can work even if there not line bred
One of those litters I bet titles all 6
And we did a lot of this not really knowing it till Kelly pointed it out to us
I also look how well some dogs cross like sawblade x ranger ky ranger piggy man and woody two liter mate females x ranger but the same result big winners I bet woody does well crossed on some of are females
Richard totally agree just asked a lot why we don't repeat thought I'd ask why some repeat

Posted by Borgstadt on 02-05-2015 06:50 PM:

Re: Super Crosses

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Who are the 3 titled dogs out of Rocky X Dot and Rocky X Bembe? [/B]

I can think of 3 ukc titled pup and then one pkc silver ch off of Rocky X Bembe. Crazy Gracy, Pud, Roscoe and then Caroline has 2 1st place wins along with a lot of $$$. Rocky X Dot I can think of 2 pups Shotgun and Bocephus but I know there are more.

__________________
Home of:
GRNITECH 'PR' THOMPSONS CIRCLE T RED ZOE (CH GRNITECH PKC CH FICKEN'S DEEPWOODS ROCKY x FICKEN'S LATENIGHT STAR)
2014 WINTER CLASSIC NITECH WIN, 2014 AUTUMN OAKS CAST WINNER & HIGH SCORING REDBONE FEMALE

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Posted by A. Walter on 02-05-2015 07:33 PM:

Would someone post Bembe's 3 generation pedigree? Thanks.

Posted by jdgher on 02-06-2015 01:33 AM:

Let there be levels

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
You can call any cross a supercross if you want to. Everyone has their own qualifications.

Qualifications: Yes anyone can call a cross a SUPER CROSS if they want to.
I remember back when the SUPERCROSS term was first mentioned by Kelly Hyde. Back then only a few crosses made over the past 15 years were considered worthy of the title.
I propose we start identifying Levels of SUPERCROSS.
If the cross produced 1 GRNTCH and 5 NTCH's then that cross should be called a SUPERCROSS6.
We'll see if this catches on :-)

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

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