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-- The Death of Trailing Hounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928404795)

Where are all these coon treeing poodles I hear about so often on here?LOL.What I hate is when a wide open dog try's to run a cold track and see saws back and forth.Stands on its head and barks non-stop.Makes me want to give them away.Thats part of the reason I dislike wide open track dogs.Every one I hunted sure sounded hot nosed to me.

Now that were getting on the same page. What lines consistently throw these type of traits. Don't get me wrong I love the treeing walker breed, and would love to stay with my walkers but I'm in no way color blind. Besides we do have the X-bred class now and I think will not only see some coon treer's from the X-bred breed but some big winners as well.

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“I DON'T BRAG ABOUT MY DOG'S, THEY WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES”

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I just scratch my head when i read these posts, Why would anyone choose to feed and hunt a dog that doesnt tree until they are 2 years old, or one that will take a track that is an hour old. If a coon just wobbles along at one mile per hour where is that hour old track gonna take ya?
Im as old fashioned as the next guy but im not tradin my P/U for a mule and wagon.

To each there own,Just run an AD. (Wanted... late starter with enough grit to run deer and fox.) shouldnt be to hard to find.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

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Originally posted by TrackDrifter
I think a lot of you have misread the intention I had when I wrote this post. Never did I mention I wanted a SLOW dog, that's a big misconception with a lot of cold nosed dogs. My post was meant to reflect the lack of nose and tracking power in a lot of today's lines. Like I mentioned the last few pups I trained weren't nothing but slick treer's. All 3 were out of very reputable (ALL-GRAND) crosses and I doubt they could trail a biscuit a cross the floor. They were beautiful, 2 had decent mouths, 1 sounded like a house dog. They were all tree dog deluxe but lacked the desire, track power, and brains that a lot of dogs of the past possessed. I titled this thread "THE DEATH OF TRAILING HOUNDS," because my intent was to find hounds that could still run a track. I know there is some excellent dogs out there but on the other hand there's way to many TREE HAPPY, SLICK TREER'S that lack desire, track power, and brains. Some of it is training but a lot of it ,is GENETICS.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

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Originally posted by Fisher13
All grand gave it away, stylish clover isn't all grand, hubs homer isn't all grand,Skuna river isn't all grand I don't think most wipe out are all grand. Buyer Beware my friend, buyer beware.

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“I DON'T BRAG ABOUT MY DOG'S, THEY WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES”

Track Dogs

It seems like this style of dog is few and far between. I have a dog who is almost 11 that i believe is exactly what you're talking about when you think of a cold nosed older style hound. I've never seen a dog that seems to just about always have the coon at the end of these old cold tracks. I've hunted with this newer stuff, 4 or 5 turnouts can be done in an hour and you MAY see 1 coon if lucky. I call my dog accurate because you always walk to a coon, no matter how long it takes, a lot of people say they have an accurate dog because they walk to 2 dens, a tree that 'can't be shined good', and maybe find 1 coon by the end of the night.. I just assume make coons instead of making trees. With him, if he opens, you just about always walk to a coon on the outside, hardly ever a den, and no slicks.

People talk about this style of dog being 'slow', I've been told by old timers he tree's more coons on the outside because he's running them up before they can get to a den and he's not back tracking. He is wipeout bred by the way... that's not to say all wipeout hounds are this way, because I've had some worthless slick treeing fools that were wipeout bred, but this one is all coondog. He's old but still tree's coons!

There's an older feller i hunt with and he says my dog wouldn't suite him because he likes to comp hunt, go in there and get treed and do it again. But he tell's me he can always rely on my dog to have the coon when he tree's, and you don't ever wonder if you're walking to one or not. he's won big in big hunts and says he's the most accurate hound he's ever been in the woods with...

Im not saying this to brag and claim to be the master breeder or coondog trainer, because im probably far from most, but i got lucky when i bought this dog as a puppy and everything since just hasn't suited me. I love this style dog and you can't hardly find anything thats not 100% tree minded these days. I've been with other dogs that seem like if they don't only tree hot ones 100 yards from the truck, they just have enough nose to open and get themselves in trouble and not be able to finish it. If anything im saying i agree with the man that said it's a shame how comp hunting has dictated breeding so much, it's kind of sad in a way..

well just like some dogs cant run the track to finish in the correct tree. many of todays hunters wont wait on a dog to finish the track to the correct tree. tree fast is all there worried about right or wrong. i enjoy comp hunts but this a side affect.

Best coondog and trackdog I've had in 5 years years is ALLGRAND.Also better than majority of dogs Ive seen.Just sayin.

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Originally posted by Jackson87
Best coondog and trackdog I've had in 5 years years is ALLGRAND.Also better than majority of dogs Ive seen.Just sayin.

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C.JONES

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Originally posted by Jackson87
Best coondog and trackdog I've had in 5 years years is ALLGRAND.Also better than majority of dogs Ive seen.Just sayin.

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Michael Ghorley

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Originally posted by TrackDrifter
What do you mean by buyer beware? I'm not trying to knock all-grand, any breed, or anybody just curious on other people's opinions on the topic.

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__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

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Originally posted by Jackson87
Best coondog and trackdog I've had in 5 years years is ALLGRAND.Also better than majority of dogs Ive seen.Just sayin.

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__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

COMA, WIPEOUT, CLOVER, & SKUNA RIVER is always mentioned when the word TRACK POWER comes up. Skuna River is Lipper, while Coma and Clover are Bozo bred. The Wipeout line came from the Coma line.

I would suggest finding something as close to Lipper/Bozo as possible as these hounds have seemed to produce more cold nosed hounds in the modern day walker era.....

The big question is who has this particular breeding?

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Originally posted by GLANCY'S 7 MILE
COMA, WIPEOUT, CLOVER, & SKUNA RIVER is always mentioned when the word TRACK POWER comes up. Skuna River is Lipper, while Coma and Clover are Bozo bred. The Wipeout line came from the Coma line.

I would suggest finding something as close to Lipper/Bozo as possible as these hounds have seemed to produce more cold nosed hounds in the modern day walker era.....

The big question is who has this particular breeding?

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__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

A good track dog should be able to run anything up to at least 40 minutes old at a full out sprint. Anything colder than that should slow forward progress some but the pace of the dog should slow little. It should just swing more trying to pick up the track here and there.

Those two and three hour long trailing deals are caused by dogs working the area they lost the track in too close for too long. Those are the types that keep searching over the same area on the Garmin instead of working forward and getting wider each loop searching for the track. They gear down and work over the area slowly. Some are so stupid they will look over the same area 20x or go back and rerun part of the track. That kind of dog will make tracks take much longer than they should.

A really good track dog that works a track right can go through a track that is a couple hours old in well under an hour. If it takes longer they may be cold nosed but they are not a good track dog. Their tracking style is hindering them.

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Originally posted by Travis Brown
A good track dog should be able to run anything up to at least 40 minutes old at a full out sprint. Anything colder than that should slow forward progress some but the pace of the dog should slow little. It should just swing more trying to pick up the track here and there.

Those two and three hour long trailing deals are caused by dogs working the area they lost the track in too close for too long. Those are the types that keep searching over the same area on the Garmin instead of working forward and getting wider each loop searching for the track. They gear down and work over the area slowly. Some are so stupid they will look over the same area 20x or go back and rerun part of the track. That kind of dog will make tracks take much longer than they should.

A really good track dog that works a track right can go through a track that is a couple hours old in well under an hour. If it takes longer they may be cold nosed but they are not a good track dog. Their tracking style is hindering them.

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I started hunting in 1986. I myself don't miss the old style dogs. Back then if you had a dog that stayed treed you had something. We called 2 year old dogs started. They pack hunted more you culled way more dogs back then. All breeds were more equal back then too. All in today's standards of junk. You guys who talk about the old style dogs must have forgot how hard you hunted back then to make a real old style coon dog! Like the old saying said dead dogs are always better. I hunted one night in a cast with 2 men who have been coon hunting longer then then most of the people on this post that has been living. They were John Monroe-and Russ Myers. We were talking about the dogs of today and they both said the dogs of today are way better.

how many of you have hunted in 0 to 16 degree temp. in snow or frozen ground. I do not believe most people know what a real track dog is.

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If those dogs of yesterday were so sorry and the dogs of today so good why back in the day take 1000 plus to win a hunt and now you can win a hunt with 100 plus or minus points I started hunting in the early 70 s and all the dogs I hunted with started quick and made top dogs but if they didn't they got culled not pawned off on sombody else .

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Originally posted by Ryan J
They were John Monroe-and Russ Myers. We were talking about the dogs of today and they both said the dogs of today are way better.

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“I DON'T BRAG ABOUT MY DOG'S, THEY WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES”

does anybody remember when we sent the silent dogs home before the 3 hours were up I do !

here is 2 young dogs that was hunted by there self's 5 to 7 nights a week in 0 to 16 degree weather never brought a off bark on anything, but both could trail up and tree coon and have the meat when they set down

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Skip Hartline
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CELL 219-898-5725


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Originally posted by buck brush
how many of you have hunted in 0 to 16 degree temp. in snow or frozen ground. I do not believe most people know what a real track dog is.

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C.JONES

I don't hunt much below 12-14 degrees but I do hunt my dogs regularly in 15 degree weather. As a matter of fact, That is how a gauge my dogs nose and tracking ability. Dogs that can consistently tree coons at that temperature have a pretty good nose and some pretty good brains to go with it. Now I don't mean one coon per week, I'm talking about treeing 2-3 coons per night out of 5/6 drops.

So 15 degrees is my measuring stick. My buddy went out a few years back when the temp was -2 degrees just to see if he could tree a coon. He treed one on the outside and sent us all the video as we all thought he was crazy for going. I I still think today he was crazy for going, but I can see you can still tree a coon once in a while, but it sure aint worth it to me to do so. Those guys beards and mustaches were frozen solid white. Oh and yes they were hunting some of this stuff I been breeding for a few years or so too, LOL!!

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I think this darn Internet has hurt hounds. People sell culls now instead of burying them! People buried many years ago , we just forget all those bad ones and just remember the good ones. Lol. I started shaking my head sitting here thinking back on the ones that didn't turn out and ones that did. I hate to admit which list was longer! I pleasure hunt and competition hunt. I don't know if dogs are better or worse now. I think there has always been both. I DO believe like some have said, out crosses do mix traits that some lines were known for so it isn't easy to say if I want a cold nose go to this line or that line. Sometimes I feel like the older I get, the less I seem to know about hounds! Anyone else? Lol

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