UKC Forums - Traits to consider before breeding a female

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- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Traits to consider before breeding a female (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928394520)

Posted by Lone Pine JB on 10-22-2014 08:25 PM:

Fisher, I'm really starting to think you're way too smart to be a coonhunter.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 10-23-2014 01:05 AM:

i only hunted with her a little bit but you have described her well from what i saw.
if you do breed her it seems to me you are in the right frame of mind on her strength and weaknesses. the only thing you mentioned that might concern me if i was breeding her is line breeding her with the corky personality. just a observation from outside looking in.

Posted by Jackson87 on 10-23-2014 03:08 AM:

If I were you and lived in Pa.I'd let LonePine JB do all the homework and breeding then buy a pup off him.It will save you a lot of time and money.Jmo from experience.

Posted by cameronk on 10-23-2014 03:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by chip johnson
are you saying that the guy that runs his female halfway across the country to breed to the big name stud that he probably never hunted with is a better breeder

Good point Chip. I guess what I was trying to get across is some people breed dogs and don't give the bloodlines or breed improvement much thought. As you pointed out this can happen both with the guys breeding locally or the ones breeding to a big name stud they have only read about.

Posted by bobbijo3456 on 10-23-2014 03:27 AM:

Female

Hunting ability,she has to prove she can be consistent on track and treeing.
Confidence proving by taking a track and working out to the tree.
Breed Standards meet or exceed the standards of a coonhound.I don't want a
Short eared bluntmuzzle hound.
Ability to follow commands either by voice or whistle.

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Posted by Fisher13 on 10-23-2014 03:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
i only hunted with her a little bit but you have described her well from what i saw.
if you do breed her it seems to me you are in the right frame of mind on her strength and weaknesses. the only thing you mentioned that might concern me if i was breeding her is line breeding her with the corky personality. just a observation from outside
looking in.

This is a very good point and I agree, I believe a lot of the quirkiness comes from her bottom side, I'm looking to double on the her top.

Another thing I'm considering is if I breed her now it will take longer to finish her out. A big part of me doesn't want to give up time where I could be hunted her. What do you guys think about that is it better to just be patient and finish a nice dog out before breeding or is it better to go ahead breed something when you have something you know you like regardless of titles.

Posted by Fisher13 on 10-23-2014 03:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jackson87
If I were you and lived in Pa.I'd let LonePine JB do all the homework and breeding then buy a pup off him.It will save you a lot of time and money.Jmo from experience.

This is a very good point! John has been a very helpful friend.

Posted by jdc on 10-23-2014 04:04 AM:

This is a good post with many well thought out answers. I am not a breeder by any means but I have made a few crosses. I try and wait until the female is finished product. I do this because I hate to give them that much time off until they have reached their potential. It may not hurt them but it seems like to me it could delay their progress some.
It sounds like your female is a good prospect for breeding and has some good traits that anyone would like to have. Good Luck

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Posted by Fisher13 on 10-23-2014 04:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jdc
This is a good post with many well thought out answers. I am not a breeder by any means but I have made a few crosses. I try and wait until the female is finished product. I do this because I hate to give them that much time off until they have reached their potential. It may not hurt them but it seems like to me it could delay their progress some.
It sounds like your female is a good prospect for breeding and has some good traits that anyone would like to have. Good Luck

That's along the lines that I was thinking, I would hate to slow her growth and improvement.

Posted by chris50 on 10-23-2014 02:17 PM:

Not all crosses work, repeat breeding you might have a little better chance on knowing what coming. I got pup once might of been the best I owen, bought 2 of next repeat, had to push to be common. You will never know till you put it in the hole. Helps to do the homework. Thease dogs are extention of are egos, so might half to sort threw alot BS find the truth.

Posted by cameronk on 10-23-2014 03:25 PM:

My two cents

I am not a breeder so I am no expert but if I was in your shoes I would wait until she was finished out to breed. I would want to see what she was like and what her traits were to match up with a stud.

In the meantime keep hunting her and enjoy. Study up on bloodlines and do your homework. No rush on this, make sure you and your hound are ready and know exactly what you want to breed her to and why.

Posted by jwrob123 on 10-25-2014 02:52 AM:

I haven't read every comment so i'm not sure if this general comment has already been said but...

If you have a female that people ask if you're planning on breeding you'll know if you should. Most people want a pup out of a female that they think highly off based off ability. Be sure it's not somebody wanting to breed their own male dog. But if you know you wouldn't have any problem moving the pups from an reputable stud, she's probably brood worthy. However, from what I've seen the puppy market is temporarily flooded, unless she's a real coon dog her self I wouldn't breed her for papers/bloodline reasons... but my advice is worth as much as you gave for it ha

Posted by jwrob123 on 10-25-2014 02:53 AM:

and i'll also add this.... I had a me too dog that people wanted me to breed because she was pretty as they get and had more mouth than most males... but I believe in breeding independent coon dog x independent coon dog... I ended up just giving her to a boy for a squirrel dog..

Posted by blackflagginit on 10-25-2014 05:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
I developed my own way to evaluate dogs as breeding stock. It is based on a similar design to what Mr. John Wick printed in his book.

after years and years of research.......I finally found a place for wicks book..........in the "smallest" room of my house. the book would get smaller by the day as well.

speaking from just my own opinion........I rate it as the #2 Ponzi scheme in the history of coonhunting. the 1st being a certain tracking system from about 30yrs ago.

I can think of half a dozen people alive I would rather read......and a cpl dozen more who are gone.......when it comes to the title of "coondog guru"

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Posted by Fisher13 on 10-25-2014 10:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by blackflagginit
after years and years of research.......I finally found a place for wicks book..........in the "smallest" room of my house. the book would get smaller by the day as well.

speaking from just my own opinion........I rate it as the #2 Ponzi scheme in the history of coonhunting. the 1st being a certain tracking system from about 30yrs ago.

I can think of half a dozen people alive I would rather read......and a cpl dozen more who are gone.......when it comes to the title of "coondog guru"

Ouch that's a little harsh.. I have found that most of his info is simple and can be found about anywhere for free. However I still think it is a very good starting place for some one new, even if it's a bit over priced for what the info you get. In fact I know a lot of hunters that struggle even to apply some of the most basic training principles, and most would be well served to read it again.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 10-25-2014 12:38 PM:

I think you already know the answer to your question.

I'll stand by my earlier statement, that if you don't want another one just like you have...don't breed it. I have been saying that for years..

But by your description, you like what you have. I have yet to see a "perfect" dog. And if we all waited on the perfect coon hound to breed, if we had the perfect dog, we couldn't find another perfect one to breed it too and they would be as extinct as a tyrannosaurus rex.

The question boils down to would you be satisfied if you bred your female and got a litter of pups that performed, looked, sounded, and acts like your female. If the answer is no, then I would not consider breeding her. If the answer is yes, you could live with that...then by all means, make an informed decision on a sire and raise a litter of pups out of her.

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Posted by Fisher13 on 10-26-2014 03:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
I think you already know the answer to your question.

I'll stand by my earlier statement, that if you don't want another one just like you have...don't breed it. I have been saying that for years..

But by your description, you like what you have. I have yet to see a "perfect" dog. And if we all waited on the perfect coon hound to breed, if we had the perfect dog, we couldn't find another perfect one to breed it too and they would be as extinct as a tyrannosaurus rex.

The question boils down to would you be satisfied if you bred your female and got a litter of pups that performed, looked, sounded, and acts like your female. If the answer is no, then I would not consider breeding her. If the answer is yes, you could live with that...then by all means, make an informed decision on a sire and raise a litter of pups out of her.

Makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the break down! I think she will cross nice on some stylish clover in fact! However Ive decided I should wait a little before breeding and get her finished out. I don't want to risk do anything that could impede her progress.

Posted by Jackson87 on 10-26-2014 04:44 AM:

Another thing you might already know.Dont buy a lot of the stud dog hype on here..Go see some pups for yourself.Some of the top studs are throwing dogs that arnt in the least bit impressive. Just because you would like another dog just like your female don't mean you will get it.Pups maybe more like the sire which could be bad or good.Jmo

Posted by Fisher13 on 10-26-2014 12:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jackson87
Another thing you might already know.Dont buy a lot of the stud dog hype on here..Go see some pups for yourself.Some of the top studs are throwing dogs that arnt in the least bit impressive. Just because you would like another dog just like your female don't mean you will get it.Pups maybe more like the sire which could be bad or good.Jmo

Yup thanks for the tip!
That's was another reason I decided to hold off, didn't want to rush picking out a sire.

Posted by breezyoaks on 10-26-2014 03:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
I think the intelligence should be the number one thing to consider when breeding ANY dog. They can have all the natural ability in the world but if they don't have the brains to go with that ability then its all wasted. The brains should help with the accuracy issue as well. It also falls in line with the speed or quickness one as well, they have to have the brains to know which way to take the track and know how to move it on out.

Hobo.....I think you hit the nail on the head......I dont think there are too many exceptional hounds that dont have intelligence in the top two credentials....
Its kinda like a good point guard or quarterback....the ones with the brains end up being the cream....

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Posted by Randy Howard on 10-26-2014 05:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jmart
Breed what you hunt, hunt what you breed! Works for me

Agreed.

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