UKC Forums - Shock Collars Under Attack

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Posted by hlandersjr on 09-14-2014 12:53 AM:

I just typed in (Gina Dinardo fox news ecollars) and it took me straight to the video.
She says she and AKC are against e-collars.

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Posted by JiM on 09-14-2014 01:13 AM:

Re: E- COLLARS

quote:
Originally posted by steve bankston
The E Collar in a trainers hand is a very valuable aid in the training of any type working dog. Used with common sense, low settings, consistent, it can correct a lot more problems than trash running. My collar stays at the house 90 percent of the time but is there when needed. Yes there is probably a few MORONS using them, but I'm not one of them. There is MORONS that own guns, MORONS that give birth to children and can't take care of their on self. But the biggest MORON of all is someone who thinks dog owners that use E-COLLARS are MORONS.

Couldn't agree more.

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Posted by Chall123 on 09-15-2014 05:09 PM:

akc

Just called them and they are already back pedaling and saying that she never said akc was against the use of E-collars Lmbo was not what I seen or hear!!

Posted by mark booth on 09-15-2014 06:00 PM:

I didn't hear her say the AKC is against the use of e collars. She the AKC supports using positive training.

Posted by Ole Moody Blues on 09-15-2014 06:30 PM:

Wow,
Just saw the video....great post.

The gentlemen, had NO chance. It was a BAD set up, from the beginning.

You can not, debate, two female, on the opposite side of the debate, and expect to come across, with a valid point about animal correction.
It look unbalanced just watching video. The guy was trying to be mannerly waiting to get his point totally across, but the women totally took over/dominated the time, with there views. I really think, we needed a women to make our point during that segment.

Our (Males) experiences for situational correction, will always be beyond, the dog park or apartment. We don't kiss our hounds in the mouth. Blow kisses to them...well, I don't !

His point about the stimulation Levels being limited, or should be limited was talk over.

An earlier post about, "Frying a dogs brains out" or "Burn em up", doesn't make us look or sound good. and kinda support our oppositions point.

Experience the levels, yourself and it will also make there point.

There was a time, before E-collars, we still trained our hounds with great results.

And before you post a reply, I know, the training method was, a Stick, a Brick, or Bullet in some cases.

The one thing our forefathers used, was time. They took the time to train. E-collars used properly can get results in a shorter time, no doubt.

My position: E-collars are a TRAINING Tool, Not a HUNTING Tool...Today, hounds are being shocked for every thing.

Ol Blue can one day be bragged on, for being this Great Straight Hound, Grand Nite Champion and all extra titles, but everyday always have a E-collar on.

Once a hound is trained, he's trained....

Ok, let the debate, begin....

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Posted by Night Shift on 09-15-2014 06:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mark booth
I didn't hear her say the AKC is against the use of e collars. She the AKC supports using positive training.

Nope she just disagreed with the guy that you can train your dog not to runout in front of a car with a treat that a shock collar was not needed. akc stands behind what the study showed the use of e-collars harms dogs or she wouldn't of been debating it open your eyes.

Posted by wadepardue on 09-15-2014 07:40 PM:

She is AGAINST the use of E collars...and that was made VERY plain. If this is NOT the position of Akc on this matter, then she should NOT be on their payroll and be Vice President of their organization...I will be returning all my Akc registration papers back to them...NO...NO...NO...

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Posted by K. Singletary on 09-15-2014 08:57 PM:

Quite a few folks expressing their displeasure on their facebook page. Really think the VP put her foot in her mouth. Wonder what they will say when one of their sponsors (Garmin) calls.

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Posted by Buckshot on 09-15-2014 09:45 PM:

AKC's responce to Saturday's segment on Fox News. From the segment I watched as I posted the video link in this thread, didn't sound to me as though AKC supports E-Collar use........yet according to their press release:

quote:

On Saturday morning, AKC agreed to appear on Fox & Friends to discuss our thoughts on the use of e-collars for pet training, a buzzed about subject triggered from the release of a recent study.

The AKC has not called for a ban on e-collars. The AKC supports choice in training methods, as well as trusting the experts. Our thousands of field trial, performance and companion participants are the experts, those with the training experience and knowledge to obtain AKC titles on their dogs. It is our opinion that when placed in the informed hands of professionals, e-collars are an appropriate and effective tool for training dogs that are not only well behaved in the home but also competitive in the field. In fact, listed under the heading “Training Collars,” our position in support of e-collars as it pertains to AKC events, dog clubs and professional trainers has not wavered since it was adopted by the Board of Directors.

When we accept national media opportunities, we see them as a chance to talk to the nearly 57 million dog-owning households across the country who may not know about AKC’s resources and offerings. For better or worse, the vast majority of those owners will face struggles at the most basic level of training, not the complexities of handling performance-level dogs in the field or advanced companion work. When we appeared on Fox & Friends, it was our intention to speak to those novice owners who are seeking the best methods to create well-trained pets. AKC maintains its encouragement of positive reinforcement techniques for those beginner owners.

We continue to support the training techniques used by our experienced, responsible, and dedicated performance and companion competitors, and we apologize for not making that distinction clear during Saturday’s segment.

Hillary Prim
Public Relations Director
919-816-8220

I keep thinking about the last minute of the interview and when the AKC Vice President speaks the word responsible then reading the last paragraph of the press release with again the word responsible - seems AKC Vice President and the AKC Public Relations Director has different opinions of responsible.

Posted by mnb&t on 09-16-2014 06:23 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ole Moody Blues
Wow,
Just saw the video....great post.

The gentlemen, had NO chance. It was a BAD set up, from the beginning.

You can not, debate, two female, on the opposite side of the debate, and expect to come across, with a valid point about animal correction.
It look unbalanced just watching video. The guy was trying to be mannerly waiting to get his point totally across, but the women totally took over/dominated the time, with there views. I really think, we needed a women to make our point during that segment.

Our (Males) experiences for situational correction, will always be beyond, the dog park or apartment. We don't kiss our hounds in the mouth. Blow kisses to them...well, I don't !

His point about the stimulation Levels being limited, or should be limited was talk over.

An earlier post about, "Frying a dogs brains out" or "Burn em up", don't make us look or sound good. and kinda support our oppositions point.

Experience the levels, yourself and it will also make there point.

There was a time, before E-collars, we still trained our hounds with great results.

And before you post a reply, I know, the training method was, a Stick, a Brick, or Bullet in some cases.

The one thing our forefathers used, was time. They took the time to train. E-collars used properly can get results in a shorter time, no doubt.

My position: E-collars are a TRAINING Tool, Not a HUNTING Tool...Today, hounds are being shocked for every thing.

Ol Blue can one day be bragged on, for being this Great Straight Hound, Grand Nite Champion and all extra titles, but everyday always have a E-collar on.

Once a hound is trained, he's trained....

Ok, let the debate, begin....

jaye, id love to see a 100lb blue on your lap blowing kisses back and forth for one! LOL.

but your right that man never had a chance in the discussion. the whole conversation was assinine.

i wish they would have let both kickem dogs out of there arms and displayed how well trained each is with commands and positive reinforcement. guarantee you that wouldnt happen.

i hunt as much as anybody and every dog i cut loose has e collar on it. ive got every dog from youngest pup to oldest veteran trained with toner for one. i rarely put a lead on unless working at tree.

i rarely shock unless extreme circumstance or blatant trash run but having ability to tone dogs can save dogs lives on nightly basis. from catching at roads to calling dogs off area cant hunt to you name it. when can afford want to get alpha system with new collars just to have vibrate feature for extra control over dogs.

anyone with a ounce of self control isnt gonna fry the dogs all the time just because collar is on them.

with common sense and level head e collar is invaluable. without common sense e collars, hot dogs, kisses, and little sweaters on the dogs wont help a thing. LOL.

bad stance by akc and bad news story by fox, end of story.

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Posted by mnb&t on 09-16-2014 06:30 AM:

drew, i like how they speak of experts over and over and let us know that whatever 57 million novice dog owners need their expertise. elitist attitude at its best.

i still appreciate tri tonics i won on your sites give a way few years back. has saved numerous dogs of mines lives several times over the years!

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Posted by Ole Moody Blues on 09-16-2014 04:31 PM:

Hey Mnb&t (Matt),

You are so correct......when hounds are introduced to the E-collar, correctly, The "TONE" button, is ALL it takes to control almost All hounds, to command.

You really made our argument....the tone, reaches farther than our voices.....

Unfortunately, this topic will NOT , go away any time soon.

Until the respect for right for options are respected as a choice, we all have. There will always be someone, that's gonna say, " You shouldn't or Don't do that !"

I would love to challenge a group of AKC/UKC/PKC Trainers. And with a litter of 12 pups of any breed (i.e. Coonhound, retriever, Birddog, Shepard), and each given 6 mo. to train to excel at what it was bred for. Have a trial, Hunt, or obedience test, and compare how each handler/trainer achieve the dogs level of ability.

If, all dogs perform as required.....Nuff Said.....

Who should cares if a E-collar was used or one of Mnb&t's French kisses.....

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Posted by stevesiebert612 on 09-16-2014 05:52 PM:

ya akc has mostle ankle bitters they dont no mutch about hounds

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Posted by mark booth on 09-16-2014 06:21 PM:

Akc recognizes 180 different breeds so I think they have more than just ankle bitters. Go to an all breed AKC conformation show like Louisville Kentucky in march you will be amazed at all the different breeds.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. They recognize 28 hound breeds.

Posted by juliaheid on 09-16-2014 08:09 PM:

e-collars

Will the UKC come out with a statement, an official statement, regarding this issue? It will help a lot of people if they would... I know I am in a coondog forum, but I have bird dogs and I do use e-collars as a corrective tool. Rarely do I have to use it much, and never on a high setting, but I would if my dog was in enough danger.

Julia

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Posted by Ole Moody Blues on 09-16-2014 08:34 PM:

You're Hired.....

You are now our NEW, Spoke Person......about E-collars.

Get ready for the Cameras.....

Great Post and point of view... !

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Posted by john Duemmer on 09-16-2014 08:57 PM:

Nothing will destroy any working breed faster than for them to become popular with the AKC. crowd, or any other group that places conformation ahead of performance. The list of breeds that can no longer perform the service for which the breed was created is long. These folks confuse dogs with children so it only stands to reason that the use of an Ecollar seems wrong to them.

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Posted by Cynthia on 09-16-2014 09:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buckshot
AKC's responce to Saturday's segment on Fox News. From the segment I watched as I posted the video link in this thread, didn't sound to me as though AKC supports E-Collar use........yet according to their press release:

I keep thinking about the last minute of the interview and when the AKC Vice President speaks the word responsible then reading the last paragraph of the press release with again the word responsible - seems AKC Vice President and the AKC Public Relations Director has different opinions of responsible.

I got the same email, so I sent a reply:

Im sorry, but that is NOT what she said. She was pushing positive reinforcement, clickers, treats, etc. She said nothing about the good values of using a shock collar. Neither did she say anything about working/field dogs vs show dogs. She only mentioned "responsible dog owners'. Those methods do not work when you turn your dog out at night to run raccoon and you cannot see them and they cant hear a clicker. maybe someone needs to reeducate Gina on the AKC's point of view before she speaks in public.

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Posted by Buckshot on 09-16-2014 09:50 PM:

Something funny in my opinion. I know AKC announced they were making the training/tracking devices permanent....but the whole timing is interesting.

They announced back in May 2014 concerning the PILOT PROGRAM For training/tracking devices:

http://forum.akccoonhounds.org/view...f=1&t=10681

quote:

We will be closing the pilot program shortly and making our electronic program changes permanent shortly.
If you have any recommendations or if you would just like to share how it has helped you or your dog in a nite hunt let us know.
Thanks to all who have sent in or called one of us.

They decided to announce the permanent change yesterday Sep 15th.

http://d3b6jcjxnoiibu.cloudfront.ne...ARMINPOLICY.pdf

Very interesting of the timing of the announcement of the permanent change.......yet back in May it was going to be announced shortly. LOL, shortly didn't happen until the uproar from the Vice President's interview.

Another funny thing is the Electronic Devices link under the ABOUT AKC COONHOUNDS heading didn't exist 2 days ago. You can do a cache of the site and then view source code to see.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 09-16-2014 09:53 PM:

Re: e-collars

quote:
Originally posted by juliaheid
Will the UKC come out with a statement, an official statement, regarding this issue? It will help a lot of people if they would... I know I am in a coondog forum, but I have bird dogs and I do use e-collars as a corrective tool. Rarely do I have to use it much, and never on a high setting, but I would if my dog was in enough danger.

Julia

I don't think the UKC sees it as an issue..... congratulations on being a responsible and successful trainer!

Posted by Richard Moore on 09-16-2014 10:33 PM:

Its time

If they try to band these collars we will have to stand as one voice. There are to many people who get laws past that intrude on our rights. Time to put a check on some of this foolishness

Posted by hlandersjr on 09-17-2014 02:44 AM:

I watched the video and posted the link because I think it is pretty bad that AKC would have a person with these views as vice-president.

This might be a sad comparison, but I own an explosive company.

If my sales man was out telling customers. Explosives are dangerous and I think a responsible quarry owner would discontinue using explosives and buy more track hoe's with rams.

I would think he and I had different views and he might be much happier employed else where. (Track hoe sales).

Gina might enjoy working for a responsible clicker company with positive reinforcement?

Posted by mnb&t on 09-17-2014 07:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by hlandersjr
I watched the video and posted the link because I think it is pretty bad that AKC would have a person with these views as vice-president.

This might be a sad comparison, but I own an explosive company.

If my sales man was out telling customers. Explosives are dangerous and I think a responsible quarry owner would discontinue using explosives and buy more track hoe's with rams.

I would think he and I had different views and he might be much happier employed else where. (Track hoe sales).

Gina might enjoy working for a responsible clicker company with positive reinforcement?

maybe her and muck boot employees could start new venture??? LOL.

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Posted by old ben on 09-17-2014 01:44 PM:

Re: E- COLLARS

quote:
Originally posted by steve bankston
The E Collar in a trainers hand is a very valuable aid in the training of any type working dog. Used with common sense, low settings, consistent, it can correct a lot more problems than trash running. My collar stays at the house 90 percent of the time but is there when needed. Yes there is probably a few MORONS using them, but I'm not one of them. There is MORONS that own guns, MORONS that give birth to children and can't take care of their on self. But the biggest MORON of all is someone who thinks dog owners that use E-COLLARS are MORONS.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 09-17-2014 03:30 PM:

I wonder what AKC's position on Invisible Fences is? :

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