UKC Forums - five casts wins = ntch win

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- five casts wins = ntch win (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928381145)

Posted by Allen / UKC on 07-02-2014 07:51 PM:

Some guys can drive Dan Patch, some will drive the old grey mare and...... Lone Pine John might have to be in for a rude awakening one day! If memory serves me correctly, I have proof at the house of where I even came to his part of the country one day and took some names. lol.

Posted by blackflagginit on 07-03-2014 03:29 AM:

come to think of it.........at least Allen titled one or two......has Kellam ever even entered a night hunt ?? :/

I know he has been on a few........some final casts even.....but entered??? not sure I ever heard one way or the other

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Posted by EFranks on 07-03-2014 01:11 PM:

25 years ago

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
Lets keeping making it easier until we just give participation awards.

when you pulled up to a hunt there was alot more hounds being entered than today...I remember 50 and 60 dogs being entered...now you're good to get 2 or 3 cast.....nobody complained back then....instead of changing the rules, might need to look for more dog power

Posted by shane_atchison on 07-03-2014 02:43 PM:

agreed

A nitech back then meant something. I place little value in that title.

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Posted by John D on 07-03-2014 02:58 PM:

IMO, it should be left alone. Its been the way it is for decades and has seemed to work so why monkey with it, now?

Yes, there used to be a lot more dogs at hunts but there also used to be a lot more dogs in hunts that wouldn't bark up a tree. There were also more handlers that had no clue on the rules and didn't know much more about coonhunting in general.

Nowadays there are a lot fewer dogs but the ones there are will almost all tree a coon. Most of the handlers left know the rules and many of them will also conveniently NOT know the rules if its a benefit to winning.

So, it all evens out and you still have to know HOW its done for it to mean anything.

Everyone who's GrNt'd a dog has some cast wins where they didn't get a NtCh win. Its part of it.

jmo.

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Posted by K. Singletary on 07-03-2014 04:36 PM:

The hunts you are going to must draw a lot more entries than the ones here. If I go to 20 hunts at least 10 of those will only have 1 NtCh cast and maybe 3 or 4 will have more than 2 NtCh casts. But like John says, most of those dogs are pretty good and have handlers that can back them.

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Posted by prostockpat on 07-03-2014 05:20 PM:

Re: agreed

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
A nitech back then meant something. I place little value in that title.

I agree.
Maybe add they have to have a htx pass or 2.At least shows the dog can tree its own coon and be accurate.

Hunted with a few grnites that can't pass a htx hunt.

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 07-03-2014 05:35 PM:

I say no.
Some times it is the luck of the draw of your guide Can't beat a dog that gets into 5 coon versus your casts 3.Or can you??Yes at times.
A good dog that makes no mistakes will get their wins.
I know a local fella that it took 5 years ....19 seconds.I think like 13 or15 thirds before making nt ch and it was a 2nd at a qualifier that he finally got to finish . He was a consistent cast winner.

If you are always getting beat by 25 or 50 points there is probably a reason.

Say your cast and another cast both score on three coon.
Other cast winners dog A is a first and second type dog .Yours dog B is not a good strike dog but is usually but not always a first tree type.
Which one do you think will bring in the most points/wins ?

DOG A
First Coon 75 + 125+ = 200+
Second Coon 75+ 75+ = 150+
Third Coon 100+ 75+ = 175+
Total Score 525+CW

DOG B
First Coon 50 + 125+ = 175+
Second Coon 25+ 125+ = 150+
Third Coon 50+ 125 + = 175+
Total Score 500+CW

Guess what ? You just got beat by 25 points again!!

This is the reason I hunt and breed for first and second type dogs on both ends.Balanced dogs should be the ones advancing to GrNt Ch's

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Posted by Rac_sacker on 07-03-2014 05:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
Lets keeping making it easier until we just give participation awards.

Ive been to ukc events where there was only one ntch dog anyway...and heard of numerous events where there were only one dog period...about the same dont ya think?

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Posted by Smoke on 07-03-2014 06:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rac_sacker
Ive been to ukc events where there was only one ntch dog anyway...and heard of numerous events where there were only one dog period...about the same dont ya think?

Well If there's only 1 or 2 ntch at the hunt it shouldn't be too hard to get the win.

Next idea will be if you just enter your dog in 50 hunts you can make Grand.

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Posted by berger on 07-03-2014 07:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich

Which one do you think will bring in the most points/wins ?

DOG A
First Coon 75 + 125+ = 200+
Second Coon 75+ 75+ = 150+
Third Coon 100+ 75+ = 175+
Total Score 525+CW

DOG B
First Coon 50 + 125+ = 175+
Second Coon 25+ 125+ = 150+
Third Coon 50+ 125 + = 175+
Total Score 500+CW

Guess what ? You just got beat by 25 points again!!

This is the reason I hunt and breed for first and second type dogs on both ends.Balanced dogs should be the ones advancing to GrNt Ch's

This is a very good example of why titles shouldn't mean a whole lot. I would take dog B any Day and any Night over dog A. In dog A it shows 2 out of the 3 coon in this cast of dogs, this dog was not the fastest track dog and was lacking in ability in locating a coon quickly and efficiently.

Dog A showed in this group of dogs that it had more speed on tracking and locating a coon quicker and more efficiently then any other dog in the cast.

So if you want mediocre sub par coon treeing ability keep breeding to dog A.
If you want speed efficient coon treeing ability then breed to Dog B.

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Posted by John D on 07-03-2014 11:31 PM:

You only need to come out ahead of the 2nd place dog whether he's in your cast or another cast.

That's how UKC is "unique". You can't just play defense against the dogs you draw because that "other cast" might be having a real coon treeing contest. I think this leads to a more aggressive handling strategy and a more interesting, heads up, hunt.

Hunts where nobody wants to call their dog and are hoping their dog doesn't bark, don't interest me.

Posted by Rac_sacker on 07-04-2014 12:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Smoke
Well If there's only 1 or 2 ntch at the hunt it shouldn't be too hard to get the win.

Next idea will be if you just enter your dog in 50 hunts you can make Grand.

and a GRNT tht gets his wins hunting alone at his home club with his buddy judging is a honorable way to get the title right??

what a joke!!!

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Posted by Smoke on 07-04-2014 12:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rac_sacker
and a GRNT tht gets his wins hunting alone at his home club with his buddy judging is a honorable way to get the title right??

what a joke!!!

Nope that's a cheap way to make one too. But I wouldn't know. Never hunted in a nt ch cast. Never felt I had a dog worthy of the title.

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Posted by GES on 07-04-2014 06:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by berger
This is a very good example of why titles shouldn't mean a whole lot. I would take dog B any Day and any Night over dog A. In dog A it shows 2 out of the 3 coon in this cast of dogs, this dog was not the fastest track dog and was lacking in ability in locating a coon quickly and efficiently.

Dog A showed in this group of dogs that it had more speed on tracking and locating a coon quicker and more efficiently then any other dog in the cast.

So if you want mediocre sub par coon treeing ability keep breeding to dog A.
If you want speed efficient coon treeing ability then breed to Dog B.

I am glad that is all so clear to you from a scorecard. The only thing I can tell is dog A was the winner. Maybe he is a first and first type dog, but his handler wants to be sure he is treed? Maybe he smokes a track, but it slow to rollover to a chop? Maybe he is chop mouth both ways and difficult to call? Dog B may be stone silent and gets pitched on strike, but is a 1 bark tree dog. Since you brought it up....keep breeding dogs on papers without actually hunting with them and their offspring and then keep wondering why you aren't getting better dogs.

Posted by berger on 07-04-2014 09:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GES
I am glad that is all so clear to you from a scorecard. The only thing I can tell is dog A was the winner. Maybe he is a first and first type dog, but his handler wants to be sure he is treed? Maybe he smokes a track, but it slow to rollover to a chop? Maybe he is chop mouth both ways and difficult to call? Dog B may be stone silent and gets pitched on strike, but is a 1 bark tree dog. Since you brought it up....keep breeding dogs on papers without actually hunting with them and their offspring and then keep wondering why you aren't getting better dogs.

Thanks for confirming what I said. Natural Efficient Coon Treeing Ability!

Handler wants to be sure he is treed?
Maybe he smokes a track, but is slow to rollover to a chop?

I believe every generation I have a better dog then the generation before.

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Posted by blackflagginit on 07-04-2014 10:57 PM:

IMO anyone who breeds for titles or based on a scorecard should always make sure there facing down wind.....or risk getting wet.

GRNTCH title means one thing, someone spent a lot of time and money hauling a dog to hunts and thought something of it. That's it. same for the equivalent in other KCs. There are just too many variables to use a title as a license to breed.

I rarely bothered to back a female dog up to a male dog. I rarely let either of the only 2 male dogs ive ever owned cover a female. The best females were allowed 1 maybe 2 litters in there lifetime... but when I did it was based on boths ability ALONE in the woods to produce results (meat on a limb) not on how well they fit a scorecard.

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 07-05-2014 09:35 PM:

Titling a dog does mean something to me. If it doesn't mean anything to the one hunting, then why even go? I could care less what other people think about my dog. Its a personal thing to me! I enjoy the fellowship and the competition, & that's it.

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Posted by jawgaboy on 07-06-2014 10:13 PM:

I personally think its a great idea. As long as they dont go with PKC and let cast wins be won in circle points! That is a no no!

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Posted by cat13 on 07-07-2014 01:35 AM:

I'd rather see the nite CH cast winners draw back out out for an hour with a non hunting judge.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 07-07-2014 03:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jawgaboy
I personally think its a great idea. As long as they dont go with PKC and let cast wins be won in circle points! That is a no no!

Pkc hunts have to distribute the $ They aint hunting for yellow slips, someone had to win.

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Posted by Rac_sacker on 07-07-2014 04:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jawgaboy
I personally think its a great idea. As long as they dont go with PKC and let cast wins be won in circle points! That is a no no!

boy ur a special kinda guy...I wonder about the folks who bash them and their hunters..i wonder where you bought your fuel with tht yellow slip? or where you fed your family on that plaque?? does tht Motel bill get paid with your club trophies?

I hunt ukc hunts, mainly Slam events, because it cost too dang much to run up n down the road tryin to make a hunt all on my dime WIN OR LOOSE! The rest of the time I can be found in the prohound under english breed standings!

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