UKC Forums - Heated debate about using the Garmin at our club last night.!!

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-- Heated debate about using the Garmin at our club last night.!! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928375889)

Posted by Tim Toler on 05-20-2014 01:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by TBO kennels
Because the whole cast is staring at the Garmin screen the whole hunt. Checking the 5 to see if there dog is coming in or to know which way to walk to gain an unfair advantage during the 6 minutes. Or which way to walk away and listen instead of shining a tree. Its junk. BULL CRAP BULL CRAP BULL CRAP. Put your Garmins down and listen for your dog.

AMEN BROTHER... I am with you 100%.... Can see carrying them and them being on... but should only be looked at when there is a question of the dog being in danger.

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Posted by Rocky Peace on 05-20-2014 04:42 PM:

Garmins

Here's an idea! Go back to way it was! After all we are coon hunting not garmin hunting! It seems like there is a fight over this every weekend! That's all this sport needs to run it down is something else to fight and argue about!

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 05-20-2014 05:42 PM:

Re: Garmins

quote:
Originally posted by Rocky Peace
Here's an idea! Go back to way it was! After all we are coon hunting not garmin hunting! It seems like there is a fight over this every weekend! That's all this sport needs to run it down is something else to fight and argue about!

Yea, because nobody argued about anything before, lol

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Posted by Smoke on 05-20-2014 05:47 PM:

I don't see a lot of talk about the use of Garmins on the other message board. You can carry an Alpha there too

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Posted by kenney Clark on 05-20-2014 06:06 PM:

Re: Garmins

quote:
Originally posted by Rocky Peace
Here's an idea! Go back to way it was! After all we are coon hunting not garmin hunting! It seems like there is a fight over this every weekend! That's all this sport needs to run it down is something else to fight and argue about!

Yea. I see your point rocky. I been in only 3-4 ukc hunts since the rule change. And have not seen a problem with it. It still takes a dog to put coon in trees to win. But I been running more hunts in the other kc. Where the rule is still the same. No garmin in the hunt time. But when I do hunt ukc I will use my garmin. Cause you can. And will benefit you. And hurt you if you don't use it. But me. I can still call my dogs without one.

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Posted by coonhunter1287 on 05-21-2014 01:39 AM:

I am for Garmins in the hunt but feel UKC has went completley the wrong way about it. A cast member should not be allowed to continually look at his Garmin thoughout the entire hunt. They should be left on and when there is a question of the dogs being in danger then everyone can pull them out and check them at the same time. I have continuosly seen, since this rule has came in effect people not "breaking the rules" but using the Garmin to gain an advantage

Posted by Tim Toler on 05-21-2014 03:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by coonhunter1287
I am for Garmins in the hunt but feel UKC has went completley the wrong way about it. A cast member should not be allowed to continually look at his Garmin thoughout the entire hunt. They should be left on and when there is a question of the dogs being in danger then everyone can pull them out and check them at the same time. I have continuosly seen, since this rule has came in effect people not "breaking the rules" but using the Garmin to gain an advantage

Question... "gain an advantage" could one consider that in aiding in scoring of a dog?

Posted by RRILEY on 05-21-2014 06:36 PM:

Even though I feel like we are in the serious minority, I also feel like the new rule allowing you to stare at your garmin the whole time is the most rediculous rule I've ever heard of. It the rule stated that you could carry your garmin in the " on " position but only look at it if the cast felt a dog was in danger I would support it 100%. But to have a cast of guys standing around paying more attention to their garmin than their dog or the stop watch is rediculous. And say what you want it is an unfair advantage in multiple ways over a competitor that doesn't have a garmin. Put the garmins in your case and lets coon hunt!!

Posted by buck brush on 05-21-2014 07:25 PM:

danger

if your dog is 1/4 mile away from you and in danger he is on his owen because you will never get there in time.

from what i'm hearing in the next year or two the only one that will have a hand held is the judge . the cast will be run off the garmen. take it for what it is worth but that came from a pretty good source.

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Posted by Triple K Kennel on 05-21-2014 07:40 PM:

I agree.........

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Toler
AMEN BROTHER... I am with you 100%.... Can see carrying them and them being on... but should only be looked at when there is a question of the dog being in danger.

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Posted by Tim Toler on 05-21-2014 07:43 PM:

Re: danger

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
if your dog is 1/4 mile away from you and in danger he is on his owen because you will never get there in time.

Great point... because even if your dog will come to you by toning it that will not do any good because the transmitter is suppose to be in the truck...

Posted by kenney Clark on 05-21-2014 08:10 PM:

I think it would be pretty stupid looking to stand there looking at your garmin the whole time. But what I mean by having it and being a advantage to have one is; knowing where your dog is at all times. Knowing which way to listen. Which way to walk . if your dog is away from the other dogs. Those things. Are what your gaining. Should not call your dog with the others when there to the right; And you see your dog is to the left. You would not pitch a dog that direction now. But the key to the whole thing is; they can be a mile deep. But if you or cast can't hear the dog. Then a tree call will not be accepted. Your not gonna tree a dog based on when the garmin says its treed. Cause you probably won't win the cast. Now would it be a disadvantage not to have a garmin when everyone else does? Sure it would be. Based on the benefits I listed above. This is all supposed to be for dog safety. And having a few dogs killed doing this sport makes you appreciate that ukc would allow this. How many tines have you had a guide turn you lose where a main road or even a 4 lane highway is? I have. And not knowing where your dog is ; is a horrible feeling. If mine was going towards a road and was a few hundred yds from it. I would tell the judge of the situation. And I tell you this if he said a t.o. can be called; I will get around there to stop the dog from crossing. If they won't allow a t.o. then I'm done. My dog more important than a dumb win. But to tell handlers when they can use it and when they can't is not the answer. After ukc allows the use. It just opens the door for more problems. When really there should be none. Now no one person changed this rule. It was more than likely a big group of people that we all count on. I know I didn't have any say in it. But for dog safety I'm all for that.

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Posted by stevenbry86 on 05-22-2014 03:34 AM:

i would sure like to know why in the world anyone would give a rats crap what other ppl are doing in the cast??? as long as there not cheating or disrupting you then what in the world does it matter? if you dont like what someone else is doing then take your butt to the house and cry about it..jmo

Posted by easttxranch on 05-22-2014 04:12 AM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by stevenbry86
i would sure like to know why in the world anyone would give a rats crap what other ppl are doing in the cast??? as long as there not cheating or disrupting you then what in the world does it matter? if you dont like what someone else is doing then take your butt to the house and cry about it..jmo

I agree 100%. To many people are worried about what others are doing. Pay attention to what your dog is doing and not what the others in the cast are doing. If you don't like using the Garmin, then don't use it, but it is the rule and I have not seen ONE problem using the Garmin and I personally like using the garmin.

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Posted by prostockpat on 05-22-2014 06:23 AM:

Re: danger

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
if your dog is 1/4 mile away from you and in danger he is on his owen because you will never get there in time.

from what i'm hearing in the next year or two the only one that will have a hand held is the judge . the cast will be run off the garmen. take it for what it is worth but that came from a pretty good source.

I hope its a blind draw non hunting judge!!!I had my share of non-hunting judges helping his buddy at a rqe in Onsted a few yrs ago.Won't be going back.

If anybody zooms way down on a dog treed,Garmins will show the dog moving even tho its not!! I can see that being used by a "Judge" to minus a dog called treed.
JMO
hopefully I'm done before that comes in

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Posted by msinc on 05-22-2014 07:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by coonhunter1287
I am for Garmins in the hunt but feel UKC has went completley the wrong way about it. A cast member should not be allowed to continually look at his Garmin thoughout the entire hunt. They should be left on and when there is a question of the dogs being in danger then everyone can pull them out and check them at the same time. I have continuosly seen, since this rule has came in effect people not "breaking the rules" but using the Garmin to gain an advantage

I am kinda still "on the fence" about this whole Garmin thing. I get that the Alpha with its training capabilities cant be used. I aint the sharpest ka-nyfe in the drawer but I cant see an advantage to the ones that just show you where the dog is. Can somebody please post some ways that one of the regular tracking type devices could be used to gain an advantage or cheat in a competition hunt??? Maybe it's that I could care less what the rest of the world is doing in a nite hunt and I am paying attention to where it needs to be paid, my dog. If the other cast members want to stare at a gadget the full two hours good for 'em. Go ahead a call me stupid, but how do you cheat with a tracking device????
Just to prove that I aint the dumbest SOB around...lets just see how long it takes some moron to quote this and tell us all how to cheat with an Alpha!!!

Posted by prostockpat on 05-22-2014 08:59 PM:

moron?

Ok,guess I've been called worse...lol

Cheat w/alpha; tone or shock my dog after it runs a deer and gets 600+ yards away.so it will get treed alone.

Tone or shock my dog for wanting to back another dog.Setting with 125 alone is hard to beat.
Or if tree is closed ;shock/tone to keep from getting minused for backing late.

Posted by warn on 05-23-2014 02:44 PM:

For years we haven't been able to carry a tracking unit and they have no where near the capabilities that a garmin has and everyone seemed to get along without them. Yes you can find things that are a plus to being able to use 1 but you can find as many negatives as well. I think UKC has a great set of rules for the most part and I see no reason to keep tweaking them. You never will be able to have a rule for every situation that arises sometimes its just a learning experience. I say leave the rules alone and go have fun.

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Posted by wmink on 05-23-2014 03:11 PM:

i agree! pay attention to the dogs. Strike em and tree em, been a lot of dogs make nite and grand nite or even world champion without a Garmin on em. just the handler paying close attention to what their doing. Im not knocking technology, or keeping up with the times, but ive hunted for alot of years with just my ears and an occasional use of the ole beep beep

Posted by Rustic Kennels on 05-23-2014 08:39 PM:

the old ways

I was at a major hunt last weekend and my dog was 900yds away on a major two lane highway. I saw this on the garmin. The cast had their dogs handled and I called my dog, yes called him by yelling his name, and he came back in. I didn't take the time to ask for a TO, I just asked if I could call him. they all said yes so I started yelling as loud as I could. He was in the opposite direction of our trucks. I will tell you that is the most scared I have ever been if it wasn't for my garmin it probably wouldn't have ended well.
To all the people complaining that it gives an unfair advantage during a hunt, all I have to say is "well so do leaves on a tree and thats why there are people out there that will not run in these hunts when the leaves are off" so lets just stop all nite hunts during the summer that way everyone has the same advantage. you will actually be able to see if someones dog has a coon or not and not just say well we can't see it so circle it. People were cheating before we were allowed to use Garmins and I'm sure there will be people cheating after as well.
And last thing to all the ones that say go back to the way it used to be, how many of you get in your vehicles and drive to a hunt. You know the way they used to do it they would hitch up their horse to a buggy and tie the dog behind and get to a hunt that way or just walk to one.
Ain't "modern technology" great

Posted by prostockpat on 05-23-2014 09:26 PM:

Re: the old ways

quote:
Originally posted by Rustic Kennels
I was at a major hunt last weekend and my dog was 900yds away on a major two lane highway. I saw this on the garmin. The cast had their dogs handled and I called my dog, yes called him by yelling his name, and he came back in. I didn't take the time to ask for a TO, I just asked if I could call him. they all said yes so I started yelling as loud as I could. He was in the opposite direction of our trucks. I will tell you that is the most scared I have ever been if it wasn't for my garmin it probably wouldn't have ended well.
To all the people complaining that it gives an unfair advantage during a hunt, all I have to say is "well so do leaves on a tree and thats why there are people out there that will not run in these hunts when the leaves are off" so lets just stop all nite hunts during the summer that way everyone has the same advantage. you will actually be able to see if someones dog has a coon or not and not just say well we can't see it so circle it. People were cheating before we were allowed to use Garmins and I'm sure there will be people cheating after as well.
And last thing to all the ones that say go back to the way it used to be, how many of you get in your vehicles and drive to a hunt. You know the way they used to do it they would hitch up their horse to a buggy and tie the dog behind and get to a hunt that way or just walk to one.
Ain't "modern technology" great

LOL,AND GO BACK TO CARBIDE LIGHTS AND LANTERNS TOO.....

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