UKC Forums - Garmin rule Question!!!!

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Posted by patches9452 on 04-24-2014 01:40 AM:

Re: Re: moving

quote:
Originally posted by WVHUNTER24.7
One person is not majority
Be careful those scratch happy handlers might want to send you home on Rule 6(s) Failure to stay with the cast.

it's my eight to do as I want

Posted by buck brush on 04-24-2014 03:33 AM:

Re: Re: Re: moving

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
it's my eight to do as I want

where did you find this rule??

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Posted by Surveyor on 04-24-2014 03:43 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: moving

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
where did you find this rule??

It was addressed by Allen on this site a while back.

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Posted by buck brush on 04-24-2014 04:01 AM:

the 8 belongs to the cast not any one person.

Posted by patches9452 on 04-24-2014 05:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
the 8 belongs to the cast not any one person.

the eight belongs to the person r persons whose dogs it is running on. No one else

Posted by groworg1 on 04-24-2014 06:29 AM:

you may control the 8 but you don't control the pace 9c and if you or they leave me 6s !

Posted by Surveyor on 04-24-2014 01:49 PM:

Here is what Allen posted before. No, you can't run off and leave everybody, but the way I read it no one can stop you from walking toward your dog while the 8 is running on their strike and you better follow (at a reasonable pace} or be scratched for leaving the cast. I know I was in this situation once where a judge told me he wasn't "walking anywhere" while the 8 was running on my dog and I'll tell you if anybody ever tries to pull that again they will have to scratch me and we can go back and talk to the MOH.

A few things.....

1. Going back to the spot where you last heard the dog was the right thing to do. From there the eight minute clock should be applied.

2. #3 of the Telemetry Rules states that a handler may not demand the cast to walk in the direction of a hound that has not been heard opening. However, the judge (meaning non-hunting judge) or majority of the cast may agree to walk in that direction. The difference in this scenario is that the dog HAS been heard opening. Rule #3 is intended for dogs that are not struck in and have not opened period.

3. In the past when the eight minute clock was on a dog with all others on leash, it was always acceptable to walk in the direction where the dog was last heard. No different now. Seems fair when you consider the dog may have went out of hearing after all the time spent soring a different tree? Unfortunately, opinions on this sometimes change dramatically based on who's dog is out and who's dog is on the leash. Difference now is the handler will know where and how far his dog is, with the use of telemetry. Still changes nothing where the eight minute clock is concerned. The dogs on leash remain on leash until the "at large" dog is heard or the eight is up or broke.

4. In trying to imagine the amount of time burned with dogs on leash, if rules were properly applied it shouldn't have been anything out of the ordinary when the dog is treed a good distance away? 1) whatever time it took to walk to the spot you last heard the dog; plus 2) the time used into the eight when the dog was heard and called treed; plus 3) no more than ten minutes of hunt time walking to the dog; plus; 4) the amount of time used to shine the tree. Stuck with dogs on leash happens and is part of a nite hunt sometimes. We've all been there and it will surely happen again.

Posted by buck brush on 04-24-2014 02:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
the eight belongs to the person r persons whose dogs it is running on. No one else

is this better Allen

Posted by prostockpat on 04-24-2014 02:16 PM:

Allen posted

Its your 8 you can walk it if you want to.
MIke{surveyor} has it above #3.

Seems like the ones that don't like the Garmin rule want keep re-hashing it....still with their "twist" on it.

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Posted by buck brush on 04-24-2014 03:40 PM:

Pat

Posted by groworg1 on 04-24-2014 03:55 PM:

I don't mind walking at a reasonable pace but I not walking a 5 minute mile to get within hearing range of your dog or mine !

Posted by Allen / UKC on 04-24-2014 04:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
I don't mind walking at a reasonable pace but I not walking a 5 minute mile to get within hearing range of your dog or mine !

Exactly!

There's courteousy and there's stupidity. In other words, walk that way, if needed. But don't expect the cast to take off in a sprint.

Posted by prostockpat on 04-24-2014 05:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Exactly!

There's courteousy and there's stupidity. In other words, walk that way, if needed. But don't expect the cast to take off in a sprint.

agree Allen!!

Skip,
Nope,not pointing at you.
My problem is some spots around my area are not that big anymore{logging,farming,irrigation pivots,etc}
If my dog hunts threw a "small" woods and don't hit nothing but keeps going.{They won't "me too" back to others that might either}.What if they cross a field to next woods and get treed?I just want my dog scored fairly for what they did....tree a coon.

If they blow 2 miles threw a big section to get away and get treed,that like Allen posted is stupidity{around here anyways}The dog obiviously is running by tracks to get away.

Posted by K. Singletary on 04-24-2014 05:53 PM:

I've never seen so many people against attempting to score a dog for what it is actually doing. Never knew so many depended on minusing a dog to get a win. Really is a shame.

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Posted by Surveyor on 04-24-2014 06:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
I've never seen so many people against attempting to score a dog for what it is actually doing. Never knew so many depended on minusing a dog to get a win. Really is a shame.

Lol, I been kind of thinking the same thing. Seems a lot of these guys are scared that that independent dog in the cast is off treed with a coon somewhere and they are hoping it won't be found in time and see this garmin rule as a bad thing because now they will likely get scored. For those that are saying this rule is unpopular and shoved down everybody's throats you might want to go back and look at a poll that was posted on here back in March-currently 154 of the 221 votes (69.68 percent) are in favor of the rule. Sure seems the other 30 percent are making all the noise.

Posted by prostockpat on 04-24-2014 06:42 PM:

Re: Pat

quote:
Originally posted by buck brush
if you are talking about me not likeing it your right i dont BUT i have to live with it because UKC says so, and i will BUT they opened up some other things as well that i like now with this change every one says it is to protect the dog and make it safe so that opens a hole lot of things now, and i have never said you can not walk to the dogs now i will not walk back to the last place i heard them and the rule says to put the 8 on the dogs when you can not hear them.

i love the deep and alone dogs because i will tree coon behind them. i went to one of them one night i a hunt walked up the same fence row that the dog went up and saw 6 coon laid up on the way to the dog.

Calling timeout is still a cast vote.The Garmin rule with the 8 is not.If your dog is near a road,house,posted ground,etc. and 3 other dogs are in the woods running track{s}your gonna have a hard time getting them to call time out for you.Your probably gonna have to w/d to "save" your dog.

You can't tree coon behind a deep and lonely dog in a hunt when your leash locked.Buddy hunting you can all night long.

IDIOT type DEEP and lonely in Michigan......will most likely get your dog ran over,cops called or shot sooner or later.

Posted by buck brush on 04-24-2014 09:02 PM:

Pat

allen

Posted by william endress on 04-24-2014 09:27 PM:

email

I just got a clear email from the powers that be in UKC. The 8 starts like it always did. The telemetry can be used in pointing the way to walk. No need to return to the last place we heard them. Cast must walk at the slowest paced person, no sprinters. Majority or non-hunting judge still has to hear the dog to end the 8.

I was also was told that April 2014 bloodlines Advisor had more on the telemetry rules. A copy of the April Advisor will be posted soon to the web.

Determine the points in rule 1 is only for PLUS, MINUS, CIRCLE, DELETE

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Posted by buck brush on 04-25-2014 12:37 AM:

Pat

Posted by Paul Frederick on 04-25-2014 05:29 PM:

Re: email

quote:
Originally posted by william endress
Majority or non-hunting judge still has to hear the dog to end the 8.

Sorry William, I should have been more specific in my wording on this issue.

Whether a dog can be heard opening or not is a judgement call. Thus, a Judge (hunting or non-hunting) has to hear the dog open to break the 8. If the majority of the cast does not agree with the hunting Judge's decision whether or not the dog can be heard opening, they can overrule the Judge with a cast vote.

Like I said, I should have made that a little more clear in my email.

Thanks!

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Posted by Vic Stoll on 04-25-2014 06:55 PM:

How far??

I know different terrain will affect the distance, but what is that magic number to where the 8 can be started & you shouldn't have to walk at all?

Example: If it is reasonably flat terrain/gently rolling, & a dog is within 800 yards, you should be able to hear it. No need to start walking, just run the 8 & listen?

Or, if agreed upon by the majority, walk in the direction of a hound to within a certain distance, say 300 yards?

The fuzziest thing for me is when to start the 8? If agreed upon by the majority to walk toward a dog, should the 8 be started immediately while stopping for short intervals to listen?

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Posted by red hot sassy on 04-25-2014 07:32 PM:

The 8 starts as soon as the tree is scored and that's plan too see and that is what ukc told me y walk too hear a dog with the 8 nt running

Posted by Surveyor on 04-25-2014 08:49 PM:

I feel like all this is up to the guy that the 8 is running on. If he wants you to go back to the last place you heard the dog to start the 8 then that's how it should be done. If he says go ahead and start the 8 as soon as the other dog are scored then start it right there. If he wants to walk then we will walk, if he wants to stop and listen then we stop and listen. If he wants to walk right up to where his garmin shows the dog than that's what we should do. Seems simple enough to me.

Posted by red hot sassy on 04-25-2014 10:36 PM:

I will nt walk any where with the 8 not running y should I be leash locked y u walk too too find ur junck dog that's runs by coon and that what were there too do is tree coon nt to see far ur dog runs too starts too hunt and that is what its doing nt hunting

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-26-2014 12:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Surveyor
I feel like all this is up to the guy that the 8 is running on. If he wants you to go back to the last place you heard the dog to start the 8 then that's how it should be done. If he says go ahead and start the 8 as soon as the other dog are scored then start it right there. If he wants to walk then we will walk, if he wants to stop and listen then we stop and listen. If he wants to walk right up to where his garmin shows the dog than that's what we should do. Seems simple enough to me.

BINGO.

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