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-- blowed up? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928367437)

quote:

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Originally posted by buck brush
now this is all JMO

1. he is young i would not do anything to him when he trees a opposum just hook him up and tell him no and lead him away

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quote:

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Originally posted by buck brush
now this is all JMO

1. he is young i would not do anything to him when he trees a opposum just hook him up and tell him no and lead him away

2 if he has treed that many coon why has he only seen 8 of them i give my young dogs every coon they tree, but that is me.
i would lay him up for a few night and start over when the whearther breaks and the sentting is good he will come out of it on his owen,

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jason

If he started early, looking good, chances are that was natural and a result of breeding and whatever you were doing at the time. A young dog that is developing is gonna go back and forth, and will continue to do so until it is mentally mature.
I don't think you can hardly over hunt a young dog that's 15-24 months old, but you can sure do it if they're younger than that. Good habits and bad habits are equally easy to enforce, and continuing to hunt him while he's confused or backsliding may only further establish the behaviors you're trying to fix.
Good luck! Being flexible and patient may be your best bet in this situation, and a little time for him to calm down, think some and get his head together should do the trick.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cory Highfill
If he started early, looking good, chances are that was natural and a result of breeding and whatever you were doing at the time. A young dog that is developing is gonna go back and forth, and will continue to do so until it is mentally mature.
I don't think you can hardly over hunt a young dog that's 15-24 months old, but you can sure do it if they're younger than that. Good habits and bad habits are equally easy to enforce, and continuing to hunt him while he's confused or backsliding may only further establish the behaviors you're trying to fix.
Good luck! Being flexible and patient may be your best bet in this situation, and a little time for him to calm down, think some and get his head together should do the trick.

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Just another thing that I think is often overlooked, and this doesn't really pertain to the possum treeing as much as the standing on his head part. But I firmly believe there is such a thing as a "bad tracking night". Last night was one of them around here. The air was heavy, and smoke from a cigarette was falling right to the ground. Those are the kind of nights that can make even an experienced hound look like a fool. As it did last night with me!

We saw a coon in the middle of the field on our way in to a good hunting spot, so we stopped the truck, and sat there for about 5 minutes, thinking we were going to let the track settle a bit. Then I cut out one of my young dogs by himself, and sent him in the direction the coon went. He went across the field about 200 yds. to the edge of the woods, almost on top of what should have been a good hot track, he never said a word. Which is unlike him, usually he is a little more mouthy on a track than I would like. Finally just inside the edge of the woods he struck, and started moving him down the edge of a ditch in the middle of the branch. The track heated up a bit, then about another 100 yds. down the branch it got worse, and worse. I was thinking he was checking trees, and was about to slam one any time, but he never did. After about 10 minutes of him beating the place to death, he ended up quitting the track, and coming out. Which is also very unlike him. At this point I was pretty disgusted with him, this is a dog that's been looking pretty good, and he's had about 15 coons down to him in the last month.

So after loading him up, we moved on down to the back of the farm, and sent my buddies dog in. The same dog I handled in a Nite hunt last weekend, where he treed 5 coons, and won the Reg. class with 950+. He went in the woods about 50yds. and struck a track. Sounded pretty good at first, but he was having trouble moving it. He picked around and moved it about 100yds. down through a marshy thicket, and the same thing happened. It got worse, and worse, until finally after 10 minutes or so, he peeled back out of there, came right back to where he'd struck and moved it about 25 yards the other direction where he treed, and had the meat. He had been backtracking the whole time. I've been hunting with this hound since he was just a pup, I've seen him tree more than 50 coons, and never once did I even suspect he might have been backtracking. At this point, I didn't feel so bad about what my dog had done earlier.

So to make a long story short, if you're hunting young dogs, and you go outside and see the smoke from the woodstove coming downward from the chimney, I believe you're better off to stay home. Just because you get a night where it's comfortable for you to be out there, doesn't mean it's a good night for tracking. In my experience, a ground temp. that's warmer than the air temp., on a night when the smoke is rising, makes for the best tracking.

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Originally posted by ole hoss
Got in some trouble a few years ago and cant pack a gun. So i cant shoot every coon he trees. I hunt by myself a whole lot and the ones he has seen my dad tagged along and shot them out to him. He is still young and i need to take a deep breath and take a step back and relax. But lord i get upset cause he was looking so good. I was plan on hunting him in the spring baby stakes and if he look like he did back in the winter he would have been hard to beat. Im just gonna lay him up a few days and see what that does. If that dont help i guess ill get a pet opposum and he will learn to make friends with him cause he will be liveing with him. Lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by buck brush
i would find me a kid someone that can shoot, and take them huntting with me, a 10 mouth old treeing 30 to 35 coon and only getting 8 of them then shake mr grinner out to him, you have him so confused he does not know what you want , i would shoot every coon he trees and just lead him away from the griners and pet him up good on the coon. he will come back BUT you better stop thumping on him or he will not make nothing hes young let him grow up treat him like you would treat a child. JMO

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__________________
jason

quote:

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Originally posted by ole hoss
Im just gonna hunt him like i did during the winter. A couple drops a night and pet him up when he does good. Pull him off when he dont.

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Ive also learned the hard way to never NEVER shoot out anything you dont want your dog to tree no matter what youdo with that animal after you shoot it out of the tree, shock beat whatever it may be

Here is my two cents, it is probably not worth that much. I am like you, learning as I go coon hunting. It sounds like you at least have someone to guide you some, all I had was the Walk with Wick books, and reading different threads on here. John Wicks methods are different than most, but he was made a living doing what he loves and trained many dogs. If nothing else you get to read about coon hunting and you can figure out a method that works for you. I think you would get better results if you didn't start your young dogs until they were 10-12 months old. What do you have to lose? Try something different than the last 3 pups you have sold because they didn't work for you. If the pup doesn't make it into a coon dog you will know it wasn't you messing the dog up, it was the genetics in the dog.

We have had a hard winter, but it is warming up and the coon tracks are going to get better, and kitten coons are right around the corner. Try to end the nights hunt on a good note, if he trees a coon early go home. If he trees a possum, let him know you aren't happy then go try and tree a coon. Your dog sounds promising. I saw you were selling another 5 1/2 month lockbox pup. Work your dads dog since you have already started it, and just work your young pup on obedience, etc. Your 5 month pup will be ready to roll next kill season when the corn is right. Good luck.

__________________
Casey Knight
757-618-6496

Yogi i agree except for one thing I do differently but who am i...no body! But i will share to two cents, if my dog trees trash that earns him a trip right back to the kennel, no matter if its 15 minutes into a good nice night of hunting or not, if he trees coon he has earned himself more hunting because in my mind no dog wants to go home, he puts trash in a tree he gets switched and right back to the box...on the other hand i never woulda comp hunted a 10 mnth or dog or laid my hand or boot on one either jmo

No dchartt, we agree.....I am working overnights and not thinking clearly....lol. It would be a good idea to end a training session on a good note. But....if he does wrong, correct him and put him up for the night. Let him think about what he did wrong. Put him up for two nights. If he does it the next time out, correct him and put him up for a week. That gives you a chance to get back to neutral, and be more patient with him next time out. It sounds crazy but I have done that with success with breaking my young dogs off deer and possum. I usually break my young dogs off deer even before I show them a coon, possum is a work in progress until they want a coon more than anything. I have a little female that was finding a possum before a coon for a little while and I messed up like you did. What worked for me is when she and another dog caught one on the ground and I saw what it was, I immediately walked away and bumped her with the ecollar. She treed one a few months later and I leashed her up and walked her out and put her in the truck and started hunting my young leopard without her. Knock on wood she hasn't messed up since.....

I am no way an expert in training, I have only been coon hunting for 2 1/2 years, but I gather as much information as I can to make an informed decision for the dogs I am working with. Once he gets some maturity he will figure out what you and your dad want consistently.

__________________
Casey Knight
757-618-6496

your ? is a good 1 hoss. i dont feel a dog blows up. i feel it is bad handleing decisions that blows are dogs up. weather it is just very young pups or older dogs it is us as handlers and trainers that make or break many of our coonhounds every year. there are dogs that dont have it in them genetically either but alot of makeing them coonhounds is on are shoulders. i have seen handlers that take a good old coonhound and ruin it in no time flat and have seen some handlers take a messed up young hound and turn it around and make a nice coonhound.
i don't feel a dog blows up. they have help for the worse or better.

gun?

Can u hunt/use a high powered pellet gun?
Sometimes fur in the mouth of a young dog when it does a good job,can really help get their head straight.

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Pups as young as yours doesn't need to be pounded every night, all night. Tree one coon go home or if they have hunted an hour or so pack them up and take them home, they are still babies.

Anytime a dog of mine goes backwards or starts doing anything out of the ordinary I take them to a vet and have them checked for thyroid, elichria, lymes. Any of these things can affect a dogs performance.

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Dean Jamerson

Man he must have heard me talkin to you guys about him cause he looked great tonight. 3 trees and 3 coons and he treed them in style boys. Took a track across a wide open cut bean feild 450 yds and layed the hammer down. Cut him loose again hit a track and treed up a bush. Coon so big it had it bent. Lol next drop he goes 150 yds and just sound like somebody stabed him with a butcher knife he just fell treed with the meat. Man he look great. That night off done him good.

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jason

Had problem a while back breaking a dog from treeing Porcupines . Was shooting them out and correcting the dog or thought I was . Turned out that particular dog thought if I shot it out it was because I wanted it for some reason so he kept doing it . Had better luck just letting them know I wasn't happy when they found one on the ground and I had nothing to do with shooting them .
Sounds a bit like your pup is thinking he's in for a whipping when you get to his tree and hasn't connected the difference between a coon tree and a possum tree .

Exactly what I did Dale with porkys also, boy did that not work!

The standing on his head problem I would say is he is tracking something that he knows is going to get him a whoopin if he trees it. Lay him up for a month start over don't shoot them out walk him off and stretch his neck a little to show him it's wrong try to give him a few coons then tie him back on a few then give him some more. I had one that was bad on deer he got to where if he struck close he would act like he was cold trailing ( to save from getting shocked or beat) till he got in there a peice then he would turn it on. A dog smart enough to do all this bs is smart enough to be broke.

He looked great last night. Wish i could have video taped that entire hunt. He drove tracks like a cadilac and done it in style. Treed 3 coons on the outside in 2 hours. Never messed with a deer or a opposum and he had his chance with the deer. He blowed right pass them and got treed probably less than a 100 yds from them. I think even the deer were impressed cause they just stood their and watched. I know this young dog is special. Hes looked great before. Hopefully hes gonna leave those opposums alone and get with the program.

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jason