UKC Forums - A question most seem to get wrong.

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-- A question most seem to get wrong. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928364620)

Posted by john Duemmer on 02-28-2014 01:14 AM:

He strikes for a quarter, the other 3 are considered treed until they are recast. In order to strike for 100 all dogs must be loose and competing for strike. Far as i know there is only one set of strike points in any situation unless all dogs are competing. The only exception would be a dog holding strike for 1 hour (2c).
I think (2a) still covers it, he is the 4th dog to strike. SIMPLE.
Personally i like it, looking at 150 points while everyone else is stuck draggin their dog on the lead. Lol.

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 02-28-2014 01:45 AM:

2014 rule 2c is an arguing point as to why not 100. Last part of sentence.
In this case previous points were SCORED!
Hmmmmmm.

Posted by john Duemmer on 02-28-2014 01:53 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
2014 rule 2c is an arguing point as to why not 100. Last part of sentence.
In this case previous points were SCORED!
Hmmmmmm.

I only referenced 2c as the only example of when a dog could receive 100 strike without the entire cast being released together.

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 02-28-2014 02:07 AM:

Yea I understand , but looking at and reading these new "streamline" set of rules could be confusing .Especially for a beginner.

Posted by Plott55 on 02-28-2014 02:41 AM:

25 points

The way i see it===4 dogs are cast== 3 dogs open for 1st,2nd and 3rd strike===4th strike is open=struck dogs tree and tree is closed, but 4th strike is still open== the tree is checked, scored and closed and the 3 dogs are led off on lease. Dog D finally barks and gets the 4th strike which had been open since 4 dog were first cut loose.

If the 3 dogs had been cut loose, it would have established a new scoring but they were still on lease when the 4th dog struck so he/she got the 4th place strike.

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Posted by sscace on 02-28-2014 02:41 AM:

scoreing

doesnt look like any beginners on here only rule benders

Posted by Gabe Webb on 02-28-2014 02:55 AM:

Answer

A B and C had their tree scored and then they were leash locked because dog D is struck and treed b4 they could be released to dog D. Strike points are 100. The next available position is not 25.

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Posted by center12 on 02-28-2014 07:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Nah, that don't do it because the only remaining points are 25 because that tree is not considered "scored" until the dogs are recast.

Jim, here is the the tail end of 11b that I was referencing:

Upon being
scored, dog(s) must be turned loose with other dogs that are opening on trail
to compete for next available strike points. However, if dog(s) are already
treed, handlers have the option to hold onto or release dog(s) so long as at
least one dog is not declared treed.

OP said dogs A, B, and C had been scored on tree when D was struck and treed. I'm very new at this, but sounds like D just went for 225. Since D is already treed the other cast members may not even turn loose to him.

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Posted by SHORN on 02-28-2014 01:38 PM:

rule 11b however if dog D is declared treed handlers have the option to or release their dog so long as 1 dog is not declared treed. (OR DOES THIS RULE IMPLY SINCE NO DOG IS STILL ON STRIKE THAT THEY CAN'T BE TURNED LOOSE) with this rule some of you guys are saying that if dogs a,b,c were released they too would only get 25? I think D gets 100

Posted by GA DAWG on 02-28-2014 02:15 PM:

Ok. Tell us.

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Posted by kenney Clark on 02-28-2014 02:20 PM:

A b and c. Cannot be turned lose to dog d cause no other dog is carrying strike. This is no different if say dog d was struck while the other 3 were treeing. Its last strike 25 points. And 100 strike points will not be awarded because all dogs have to be loose and competing for strike points. After dog d was struck and treed you lead the others dogs to the tree and score it..
There is only one set of strike points. If dog d was struck and not treed other dogs get turned loose and when struck will be for 25 as well.

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Posted by RRILEY on 02-28-2014 07:09 PM:

Guys this isn't a hard one to get right. All dogs have to be able to compete to open up a new set of strike points. Dog D strikes for a quarter and the rest of the dogs are leash locked and headed to score him. Now if was me handling dog D depending on how ABC's tree was scored, I would've let them cut theirs loose first so I could get struck in for 100.

Posted by center12 on 02-28-2014 07:23 PM:

I'm ready for the answer!!!

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Posted by Tim Trone on 02-28-2014 07:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RRILEY
Guys this isn't a hard one to get right. All dogs have to be able to compete to open up a new set of strike points. Dog D strikes for a quarter and the rest of the dogs are leash locked and headed to score him. Now if was me handling dog D depending on how ABC's tree was scored, I would've let them cut theirs loose first so I could get struck in for 100.

25 is the answer, all dogs must be able to compete. The dog was steady barking so he couldnt have waited. .

Posted by center12 on 02-28-2014 07:54 PM:

Tim, I'm new to this and trying hard to understand all these scenarios, so I have a question. Where does it say all dogs have to be able to compete? I was reading 2D and at the bottom it states:

"Once a position has been scored it becomes available again."

In your scenario, dogs had been scored before d opened and was struck.

This stuff is confusing while sitting in the recliner, I'll get crushed at a hunt!!!

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Posted by RRILEY on 02-28-2014 08:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Trone
25 is the answer, all dogs must be able to compete. The dog was steady barking so he couldnt have waited. .

A judge can't demand a call while walking the dogs their min as you can't effectively judge while walking. When the mins up the cast will have to cut loose on dog D's first bark, hence you strike D in on the 2nd or 3rd and their you go, you have your first strike.

Posted by Rocketman55 on 02-28-2014 08:25 PM:

Take a deep breath RRiley, UKC doesn't require a 1 minute walk away from a scored tree. You now are confusing another registry, with the rules of UKC.

25 is, was, and always will be, the correct answer, so long as the rules remain written the way they currently are.

Good Scenario Tim, It sure is easy to see how confusion and confrontation seem to meet head on in a competition hunt, LOL

Good Hunting to all!!

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Posted by john Duemmer on 02-28-2014 08:41 PM:

Heres a twist for you guys.... Dog Ds handler is not required to strike his dog until the 3rd bark, and A,B, and C are supposed to be cast at the first bark, which would give Ds handler the option to leashlock the cast or strike for 100.

Heres the ? We know that a dog that hasnt been struck cannot break the 8.... SO does a dog that hasnt been struck but opens a couple times require the rest of the cast to cutem?

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 02-28-2014 08:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by center12
Tim, I'm new to this and trying hard to understand all these scenarios, so I have a question. Where does it say all dogs have to be able to compete? I was reading 2D and at the bottom it states:

"Once a position has been scored it becomes available again."

In your scenario, dogs had been scored before d opened and was struck.

This stuff is confusing while sitting in the recliner, I'll get crushed at a hunt!!!

You have to go back to 2013 rules (2a). Y it was negelected in the 2014 rules only UKC knows.

But this beginner has proven my point as to how confusing it can be to a beginner.

Hang in there center12 it will get worst before it gets better.

Posted by center12 on 02-28-2014 08:54 PM:

Well that made me feel better, lol.

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Posted by center12 on 02-28-2014 09:13 PM:

I'm going off my 2014 score card and 2D is telling me points are open after dogs are scored, dogs were scored before I struck in(me being dog D). Why wouldn't I go for 100 based on the 2014 card and rules?

John Duemmer left me in the dust, lol.

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Posted by joey on 02-28-2014 09:31 PM:

quote:
[i]Heres the ? We know that a dog that hasnt been struck cannot break the 8.... SO does a dog that hasnt been struck but opens a couple times require the rest of the cast to cutem? [/B]

Nope, they are not even required to cut them even if he is struck in. At least not until the handlers are comfortable with the distance they have taken the dogs off the tree.

The smart thing in that case is for the other handler to keep his mouth shut until the third bark or they have turned loose.

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Posted by ole hoss on 02-28-2014 10:01 PM:

So in ukc i can choose to lead my dog as long and far as i want off the tree?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 02-28-2014 10:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by center12
I'm going off my 2014 score card and 2D is telling me points are open after dogs are scored, dogs were scored before I struck in(me being dog D). Why wouldn't I go for 100 based on the 2014 card and rules?

John Duemmer left me in the dust, lol.

The simple answer is that UKC. does not consider that tree to be scored until the dogs are recast.

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Posted by center12 on 02-28-2014 11:03 PM:

Ok, works for me. Thanks

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