UKC Forums - What past stud dog do you guys think was badly over looked???

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-- What past stud dog do you guys think was badly over looked??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928357584)

Posted by Okie Hunter on 06-11-2014 08:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mike thomason
Is Chopper still alive ?? If so is he able to sire pups ??

There is a litter of pups out of him advertised on the English Pups For Sale forum. Here is the link:

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...eadid=928377544

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Posted by LBLACKHEARTED on 06-26-2014 02:09 PM:

Rat Poison

quote:
Originally posted by englishpride
I think briar Creek rat poison will be at the top of the list.

We have a female that will be bred too him as soon as she is finished out

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Posted by redtick man 123 on 06-27-2014 02:50 PM:

RAT POSION was overlooked i believe be cause of his brother zeb which won the super stakes and was adv awhole lot more RAT POSION was surly a coooon dog and was overlooked iowned him and hunted him really hard so i can say this mike

Posted by blackflagginit on 06-27-2014 03:17 PM:

GRNTCHGRCH Thompsons Frankenstein (Ringo x Zee Zee) is at the TOP of my list.

NTCH Hamiltons Blue Boy Ten would be #2

GRNTCHGRCH Pine Knob Durango would be #3

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Posted by Okie Hunter on 06-27-2014 08:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blackflagginit
GRNTCHGRCH Thompsons Frankenstein (Ringo x Zee Zee) is at the TOP of my list.

NTCH Hamiltons Blue Boy Ten would be #2

GRNTCHGRCH Pine Knob Durango would be #3

Agree on all of those.

I was at Brent & Sondra Beck's when Gary Moore from Once Frozen tried to get a collection on Ten. They collected him and the semen was too weak to survive the process when unthawed (because of his age at the time). Gary felt he could get his count up enough by collecting him a few times to where a few breedings could be stored on him. Brent didn't want Ten to leave his place for that, so semen was never frozen on Ten.

I do believe there is a breeding or two of Durango semen out there. I know where it's at, but it's not for sale and probably never will be available unless the owner of the semen decides to use it.

Posted by blackflagginit on 06-28-2014 08:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Hunter
Agree on all of those.

I was at Brent & Sondra Beck's when Gary Moore from Once Frozen tried to get a collection on Ten. They collected him and the semen was too weak to survive the process when unthawed (because of his age at the time). Gary felt he could get his count up enough by collecting him a few times to where a few breedings could be stored on him. Brent didn't want Ten to leave his place for that, so semen was never frozen on Ten.

I do believe there is a breeding or two of Durango semen out there. I know where it's at, but it's not for sale and probably never will be available unless the owner of the semen decides to use it.

I bred to Durango twice. far as I know other than Ferrari and 1 other female ( a Northridge gyp I believe) that was the limit to females bred to Durango. the last I knew the semen on hand was set aside for Quad Grand Hanna, but I have no idea if it was ever used and she is gone now.

In fact the reason I bred to Durango in the first place, with the first female (a turkey ridge racket gyp) was because Brent felt Ten couldn't be guaranteed to settle her. after I bred that female I bred a daughter of Ten x (T Johns female out of Jack I believe).

I owned 3 dogs out of Frank. all from Cry Baby. All 3 were COONDOGS. other than Cry Baby there was only 1 other female bred to him as far as I know and there was a GRNTCH in that cross as well.

Posted by knockemstiffeng on 06-28-2014 11:49 PM:

Oney's King

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Posted by william endress on 06-29-2014 12:06 AM:

my pick

Sandman that Mr Oney had. I had 3 off different litters. All where loud and coondogs. One was huge, I called him tiger because he was so big.

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Posted by blackflagginit on 06-29-2014 07:02 AM:

unless I am forgetting one or two and haven't found them in old kennel records (which is entirely possible :/ ) I owned 5 dogs directly off of Ten by 4 different females. the one consistent trait he ALWAYS put in them across the board (at least every one of them I owned) was Layup ability.

the Ozarks Rebel Pride dog I ran in the 90s was a master of layups. In a pecan grove where coons had been sitting up all night,he was impossible to beat in a cast. (something like 25 out of 27 cast wins/places). he had his faults and holes but he was a layup expert.

2 dogs were off Ten X GRNTCH Cox's Coonin Little Sally (the pride dog was from the first cross, and another from the second litter of the same cross)

1 was off of Ten x Jack female (T Johns female but I forget her name.. and was a littermate to his Cotton dog)

1 was off of Ten x Grand Lake female

1 for the life of me I cant remember the females breeding but sired by Ten.

Posted by blackflagginit on 06-29-2014 07:39 AM:

from what I saw out of Durango pups (about half the pups ever sired by him were born right here, and most of those 2 litters were raised right here by me or close friends. 17-19 total I think)

was:
1) HUGE mouths.
2) pressure proof tree dogs
3) impeccable looks. (though there were a cpl off of him x Lucky I cringed at)

The Duel Grand Ruby female (Durango x lucky) we owned and bred to Loose (where Cinderella came from) is to this day the best BUILT English female I ever laid eyes on. She was a coondog too. one of the 4 loudest females I ever heard as well of ANY breed.

the loudest female I ever heard was off of Durango x Racket (my turkey ridge racket female) and the racket female could just about be drowned out by a field mouse :/

Queen (Durango x Lucky) had the most awesome Locate I ever heard hung on a hound.

Posted by cu@dtree on 06-29-2014 08:56 PM:

Evan's Red Joe

In my opinion, Dual Gr. Ch. Evan's Red Joe never got the due he deserved after Bluegrass Amos won Purina.

If you don't think the competition hunts affect the breed, watch that bandwagon fill up once a dog wins a big hunt. I'm not saying a big winner shouldn't be test mated to see if he can reproduce his likeness. Sometimes they do as in Amos' case. But everyone flocking to the big winner like a moth to a flame when he hasn't proven to reproduce is reckless. Supply and demand in action!!! What is sad is the dog responsible for them that is still at stud usually gets ignored after the big win. How soon people forget!!

Posted by JimF on 06-29-2014 09:23 PM:

Gr Nt Ch little River Wild Willy he was out of Lumis. Reproducer bar none. Has several titled dogs in UKC. Also produced several big money winners in PKC. Most of his pups where deep hunting, accurate lock down tree dogs. His son Crooked Creek Spike was no slouch either.

Posted by Cheyenne on 06-30-2014 12:38 AM:

Gr.Nt.Ch. Whittle's Sandman threw some outstanding pups, I believe he still sired over 500 pups, they were big loud redticks. Also Nt.Ch. Perks Northern Cujo threw real cold nosed dogs that were easy starting pups!

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Posted by JB Cobb on 06-30-2014 12:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JimF
Gr Nt Ch little River Wild Willy he was out of Lumis. Reproducer bar none. Has several titled dogs in UKC. Also produced several big money winners in PKC. Most of his pups where deep hunting, accurate lock down tree dogs. His son Crooked Creek Spike was no slouch either.

Boys down here had a good once out of Willy.....his name was Jim. Accurate hard tree dog. Only hole was his mouth. Never bother a sole but would stay treed with the devil himself !!!!!

Posted by JimF on 06-30-2014 04:08 AM:

JB, Randy Leonard and myself owned Jim until he was 3 or 4. He was the first dog I owned out of Willy. We won a bunch of casts with him. Sure liked him a lot. I had 3 or 4 more out willy I liked and hunted with several more that where nice. Randy Leonard's old Mae female is still the best I've ever been in the woods with.

Posted by Okie Hunter on 06-30-2014 04:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blackflagginit
...I owned 5 dogs directly off of Ten by 4 different females. the one consistent trait he ALWAYS put in them across the board (at least every one of them I owned) was Layup ability.

the Ozarks Rebel Pride dog I ran in the 90s was a master of layups. In a pecan grove where coons had been sitting up all night,he was impossible to beat in a cast. (something like 25 out of 27 cast wins/places). he had his faults and holes but he was a layup expert.

2 dogs were off Ten X GRNTCH Cox's Coonin Little Sally (the pride dog was from the first cross, and another from the second litter of the same cross)

1 was off of Ten x Jack female (T Johns female but I forget her name.. and was a littermate to his Cotton dog)

1 was off of Ten x Grand Lake female

1 for the life of me I cant remember the females breeding but sired by Ten.

That's the one ability (treeing lay ups) that Bruiser got from Ten. He was the best I had at doing that. He made me a lazy hunter. If I wanted to tree one more quick coon, I would put Bruiser in the back of the truck bed as I headed home. Once he opened out of the truck, all you had to do was pull over and unsnap him. I don't know how many times that dog peeled off the side of the road and treed 50 to 100 yards deep with a coon. Most of the time, he would open with his locate. Bruiser's mother was not a lay up dog and I am not sure about Lumis, so I am 99% positive that Bruiser's lay up ability came from Ten.

T John's female was NITE CH GR CH Clear Creek Miss Minnie. She is buried at my house. T John gave her to me when she was very old. I tried to raise a litter out of her, but she didn't take. I'm sure it was because of her age because she died not long after that.

Posted by blackflagginit on 06-30-2014 04:51 PM:

yup that was one of the names I was thinking of.......Minnie . I bred a female out of her x Ten to Durango once. I kept half the litter and gave Chip half the litter.

I never personaly hunted with Ten. One of my mentors. JD Cox, did when Warren H had him. in fact Warren bought Sally after she raised the first litter off Ten and raised a second. When they hunted Ten and Sally togather to see if JD wanted to bred to Ten........JD told me Ten absolutely destroyed her in the pecan groves on layup coon, but that she had redeemed herself on running tracks and cold tracks.

He also mentioned he saw Ten stand up on his hind legs and winded around a little.......then located......went a hundred yards or so to the side and slammed a layup coon...then repeated it a cpl more times during the night to add insult to injury lol... something I witnessed from every one of his pups on countless nights as well

Posted by Rac_sacker on 07-01-2014 03:02 PM:

I have to say my list would include:
GRNT Johnson&Shepards duke
GRNT Briar Creek rat poison
GRNT Hillbilly Bob
GRNT Hardtime Cody Jar
GRNT Timber Cutter
GRNT Roberts Pin Oak Toad
and many more i cannot think of at the present time...

I could name a pretty extensive current list as well

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Posted by Austin young on 07-02-2014 01:19 AM:

Grnitech Browers Red Rock! Had a darn good one outta him

Posted by Okie Hunter on 07-03-2014 04:56 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Austin young
Grnitech Browers Red Rock! Had a darn good one outta him

I have a female with Shawn Shanks that is a grand daughter of Red Rock on her top side and a grand daughter of my Blue Boy Bruiser dog on her mothers side.

The reason I bring it up is because that was an outstanding cross Red Rock was out of. Shawn owned a full brother to Red Rock. His name was GR NITECH PKC Silver CH Oklahoma Butch. Shawn will tell you today that Butch was the most accurate dog he ever walked behind. Old Butch never missed. You either saw a coon or a den. If you climbed the den tree to look, you would see that coon too.

Posted by blackflagginit on 07-03-2014 05:53 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Hunter
Old Butch never missed. You either saw a coon or a den. If you climbed the den tree to look, you would see that coon too.

That was how my old Looser dog was. (Frank (Frankenstein) x Cry Baby) the dog just flat did not miss, and rarely treed in a den. when he did I promise you if you climbed you would see a coon too. an Absolute 1 way track dog who always went the RIGHT way.

several times on casts he would take a track one way and the rest of a cast would take it the other. he would have a coon and they would have a den.

I always laughed when the other handlers said "boy your lucky yours is on the outside ours was in a hole" I just said "nope he went the right way and yours ran it backwards"

Posted by Austin young on 07-03-2014 07:15 PM:

Mr Wells I had a pup out of the same dog I believe yours is out of . Rebel Without a Cause? I owned a full brother to rebel but out of the litter before him and he was as nice a dog as I've followed and a lot better than most of the crap being hauled up and down the roads today! The pup I had out of rebel didn't turn out but that whole cross wasn't tree minded at all!

Posted by chip wisecup 1 on 07-04-2014 07:47 AM:

Larry,

Had a very long visit with John tonight.... first visit in many years. We talked about everything. Sure was good to re-live the good ole days.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see if that Durango Semen would settle a female?

Yes, Hannah was the chosen female. We planned that breeding before she was even born. We planned, bred, trained, and finished her, but never tried the semen. Hind Sight is 20/20 and that is one regret I will always live with.

Wonder what female would make the best cross? Any ideas?

Also have Semen out of "JOE". Night champion with 4 wins when he died. By far one of my favorite "LOUD" hounds with a great locate. Had other problems, but definitely had the mouth and drive.

Something to PONDER for a while.

Posted by blackflagginit on 07-04-2014 06:28 PM:

Great to hear from you Chip . Hope you and everyone is doing fine

we have had some ruff stuff around here the last few weeks. Chelsea lost her husband. The funeral about killed me , I took him in to raise when he was 16 and he has been a son to me for 5 or 6 years now. She has 2 kids and a 3rd on the way.

If you see John again, please tell him im sorry I missed Mom's funeral. I didn't find out she had passed until it was too late to attend. I sure as heck would have been there despite past differences. I loved that woman to pieces

I wouldn't begin to give advice on what to use that Durango gold on ........but if Crank were still alive I would sure have killed to use it...seriously, hitman style and all :O .. She would have never been sold if there was even a tiny bit of chance of using it on her.

That Joe semen might be gold as well... the females out of that cross were producers........sure would be worth finding out about a male from it

Posted by jamie green on 07-04-2014 11:56 PM:

Irish valley blue rooster and hardtime rod had dogs out both that turnout good

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