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Posted by Jonathan Crump on 11-27-2013 10:39 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: 2014....

quote:
Originally posted by Triple K Kennel
I forgot, the Repubs don't tax any do they, LOL.....!!!
You boys weren't complaining when Bush was spending Millions on top of Millions for the Iraq war, for what.......Nothing....!!!

I was complaining just not on here at the time. We put our nose into a battle that has been raging for centuries and wont stop until the Lord returns.

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Posted by Jonathan Crump on 11-27-2013 10:48 AM:

Re: Correct.......

quote:
Originally posted by Triple K Kennel
The right had 1 goal when Obama took office, to go Against Everything he was for....that's it.
Yes, when Bush was in 750,000 jobs a month were being lost, ......He was doing such a Great Job, .............

And our present leadership has done such a fine job creating jobs and keeping business here in the past 4-5 yrs it just amazes me. How many on my tax dollar now? It is all the same if we have a rep pres the dems are against him and vice versa. I think the only thing we will ever agree on is we need a totally overhauled capitol hill. If we could get personal agenda out of the way and get leading the greatest nation back as the agenda we would all be better off. Our gov has slowly taken our freedoms for many years, reps and dems and it is time it stops.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 11-27-2013 12:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Hey truly just anwser me one question. It's not even a hard one either! How do you stand up for///justify a president that has spend hundreds of millions of tax payer money on a law that is broken before its even started?

The one thing obama has actually got accomplished (if you even want to call
it that ) is a total train wreck costing millions each and every day. Sure isn't his money hes blowing through now is it?

One thing obama has been great at his whole life is stealing tax payer dollars.

Come on truly, step up to the plate!

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Posted by Jonathan Crump on 11-27-2013 12:20 PM:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Hey truly just anwser me one question. It's not even a hard one either! How do you stand up for///justify a president that has spend hundreds of millions of tax payer money on a law that is broken before its even started?

The one thing obama has actually got accomplished (if you even want to call
it that ) is a total train wreck costing millions each and every day. Sure isn't his money hes blowing through now is it?

One thing obama has been great at his whole life is stealing tax payer dollars.

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Come on truly, step up to the plate!

Hoosier don't forget about wanting to give a free ticket on our dime to all of the illeagals that are here.

Posted by Triple K Kennel on 11-27-2013 01:40 PM:

Re: Re: Correct.......

quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Crump
And our present leadership has done such a fine job creating jobs and keeping business here in the past 4-5 yrs it just amazes me. How many on my tax dollar now? It is all the same if we have a rep pres the dems are against him and vice versa. I think the only thing we will ever agree on is we need a totally overhauled capitol hill. If we could get personal agenda out of the way and get leading the greatest nation back as the agenda we would all be better off. Our gov has slowly taken our freedoms for many years, reps and dems and it is time it stops.

I will Agree on this.......!!!

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Posted by rance56 on 11-27-2013 01:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
Well I am sure glad that we agree on QE1, 2, 3 being a major element of devaluation of the U.S. dollar. I think it is very disingenuous of you to not consider this a part of the bailout of our banks and our financial system. It should also be noted that the QE program has been run by Bush's appointment to head the fed, Ben Bernanke. He started the QE program in 2008 in response the Global Economic Crisis that Bush led us into. And as much as you righties can't wrap your heads around it, we are still paying the price for Bush's horrendous mismanagement of our economy. As groworg CORRECTLY points out, by the end of the Bush reign of terror we were loosing 750,000 jobs per month! This is the wreckage that Bernanke has been trying to salvage us from. The 700 billion dollars that Bush spent on the TARP funds was just a drop in the bucket compared to the 7 trillion that the Feds have had to spend to clean up the Bush catastrophe.

Just one correction to my statement above- while Bush had meant to hand out 700 billion dollars to the banks the final total came in much lower. Why you might ask? Dodd-Frank and the wonderful Democrats:
"The TARP program originally authorized expenditures of $700 billion. The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act reduced the amount authorized to $475 billion."

this is what happens when you talk economics/finance with a hair stylist.

so now TARP = Quantitative Easing?

i refuse to waste any more of my time trying to have a discussion with someone that cant even understand the difference between the 2 programs. they are no where near one in the same. You cant admit when obama is wrong an you cant admit when its obvious that you are wrong also, so whats the point. ill let you get back to cuting hair and ill get back to managing money.

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Posted by rance56 on 11-27-2013 02:01 PM:

and dont take my word for it, not once is QE mentioned in wikipedias explanation of TARP.

read it for yourselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubl..._Relief_Program

but i do see who gets their info from having to read wikipedia. its funny how wikipedia immeditaly points out dodd frank reduced the amount of tarp funding and someone else almost uses word for word in their post.

some of us live it an truely understand it, and some of us are googling genuises that get talking points from thier liberal daddies on what to say instead of researching, understanding, then making their own educated opinion.

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Posted by truly on 11-27-2013 03:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
this is what happens when you talk economics/finance with a hair stylist.

so now TARP = Quantitative Easing?

i refuse to waste any more of my time trying to have a discussion with someone that cant even understand the difference between the 2 programs. they are no where near one in the same. You cant admit when obama is wrong an you cant admit when its obvious that you are wrong also, so whats the point. ill let you get back to cuting hair and ill get back to managing money.

No. reread my statement. I have never said TARP = QE. TARP = bailout and QE = bailout. If QE is not a bailout then what is it? And if you agree that it is a bailout, then who is it bailing out?

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Posted by rance56 on 11-27-2013 03:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
No. reread my statement. I have never said TARP = QE. TARP = bailout and QE = bailout. If QE is not a bailout then what is it? And if you agree that it is a bailout, then who is it bailing out?

QE is a policy to stimulate economice growth for the entire country. it is not a bailout. it is training wheels for the economy because your president's policies cant create jobs nor economic growth on their own.

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Posted by truly on 11-27-2013 03:26 PM:

And yes folks, follow Rance's link. Remind yourself that TARP, the big bailout was a Bush program:
"The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis."

btw, rance, your comment that you can't talk policy with a stylist reminds me a little of the lengthy conversation between Burke and Payne. Thank God we fought the revolution and put your's and Burke's ideas to rest.
from Edmund Burke, one of the foundational thoughts of conservatism, that working class folks should have no say in their own governance:
The occupation of a hairdresser or of a working tallow-chandler cannot be a matter of honor to any person — to say nothing of a number of other more servile employments. Such descriptions of men ought not to suffer oppression from the state; but the state suffers oppression if such as they,either individually or collectively, are permitted to rule. In this you think you are combating prejudice, but you are at war with nature."

Class warfare anyone?

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Posted by rance56 on 11-27-2013 03:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
And yes folks, follow Rance's link. Remind yourself that TARP, the big bailout was a Bush program:
"The Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) is a program of the United States government to purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector that was signed into law by U.S. President George W. Bush on October 3, 2008. It was a component of the government's measures in 2008 to address the subprime mortgage crisis."

btw, rance, your comment that you can't talk policy with a stylist reminds me a little of the lengthy conversation between Burke and Payne. Thank God we fought the revolution and put your's and Burke's ideas to rest.
from Edmund Burke, one of the foundational thoughts of conservatism, that working class folks should have no say in their own governance:
The occupation of a hairdresser or of a working tallow-chandler cannot be a matter of honor to any person — to say nothing of a number of other more servile employments. Such descriptions of men ought not to suffer oppression from the state; but the state suffers oppression if such as they,either individually or collectively, are permitted to rule. In this you think you are combating prejudice, but you are at war with nature."

Class warfare anyone?

lol, i didnt say a hair dresser shouldnt have a vote in poloticis, i said you cant have a prodcutive conversation about the inner workings of economics and finance with a hair dresser because they cant understand the fundementals of it.

an how dare a obama supporter accuse another of class warfarre.

what started all this was that you stated the bank bailout led to the dollar losing its value.

tarp essentially is what bailed out the banks and alot of it was forced on the major banks. tarp totalled around 400 billion, and i believe not all of that went to banks. we have a 17 trillion dollar debt, but you claim that in comparison the miniscule figure of 400 billion dollars that has already been paid back is what you label as the main reason for the dollars devalue. and then you try to twist bailing out the banks into QE 1,2,3 ect ect.

you are in over your head, you cant swim in the deep waters of an economic conversation that im going to drag you out to, so please just stop grasping at straws.

again, im still laughing at the claim the dollar is being devalued due to the BAILOUT of the banks

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Posted by michael.magorian on 11-27-2013 03:38 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: ????? For AMERICANS????

quote:
Originally posted by truly
My parents made me start paying rent of $300 dollars per day the day that I turned 18 ( in 1986- that was a lot of money to pay to live in an old farmhouse!)

So at the age of 18, you had to pay an average of $9,000 every month to your parents? So you were making at least $108,000 each year? Wow, you must be a billionaire by now if you were making that kind of money right out of high school.

The bill creating the TSA, as an expansion of the Dept. of Homeland Security, was again written and passed by both houses of Congress (with a bi-partisan vote) and then signed by President Bush. It was not his decision to create the TSA, or regulate their policies. You are not required to fly anywhere, ever. It is a luxury that you can utilize as a alternative to driving across the country. If you want to fly, you must abide by the rules set down by the TSA. That's about as dumb as arguing the regulations passed down by the DMV.

Ben Bernanke was appointed by President Bush, approved by a Republican controlled House and Senate. President Obama took office 2008 with a Democrate controlled House and Senate. The Federal Reserve does not have unlimited term limits like Supreme Court Justices. They can be removed.

Keep blaming President Bush. Maybe that will prevent President Obama from being worthless and counter productive. The only ex-president that agrees with him is President Carter, who is just happy people will stop calling him the worst president in U.S. history.

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Posted by dbprofitt56 on 11-27-2013 04:07 PM:

Re: Correct.......

quote:
Originally posted by Triple K Kennel
The right had 1 goal when Obama took office, to go Against Everything he was for....that's it.
Yes, when Bush was in 750,000 jobs a month were being lost, ......He was doing such a Great Job, .............

Hey KKK, hate to tell you this, but Congress was controlled by you Dems the last 2 years of Bush's term! When the great Obama took over, he had control over all three branches of government, and he still couldn't get anything done right! Let's look at some of his accomplishment. Stimulus, cash for clunkers, Solyndra, the electric car Fisker, fast and furious, Benghazi, NSA, IRS, Obamacare, and so on, and so forth! Everything he does, turns to crap, but unfortunately it's America who's getting crapped on! Quit cherry picking!

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Posted by truly on 11-27-2013 04:14 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ????? For AMERICANS????

quote:
Originally posted by michael.magorian
So at the age of 18, you had to pay an average of $9,000 every month to your parents? So you were making at least $108,000 each year? Wow, you must be a billionaire by now if you were making that kind of money right out of high school.

The bill creating the TSA, as an expansion of the Dept. of Homeland Security, was again written and passed by both houses of Congress (with a bi-partisan vote) and then signed by President Bush. It was not his decision to create the TSA, or regulate their policies. You are not required to fly anywhere, ever. It is a luxury that you can utilize as a alternative to driving across the country. If you want to fly, you must abide by the rules set down by the TSA. That's about as dumb as arguing the regulations passed down by the DMV.

Ben Bernanke was appointed by President Bush, approved by a Republican controlled House and Senate. President Obama took office 2008 with a Democrate controlled House and Senate. The Federal Reserve does not have unlimited term limits like Supreme Court Justices. They can be removed.

Keep blaming President Bush. Maybe that will prevent President Obama from being worthless and counter productive. The only ex-president that agrees with him is President Carter, who is just happy people will stop calling him the worst president in U.S. history.

Sorry, typo, 300$ per month.
Thanks for admitting that Bush did sign TSA into law. If you think being groped at the airport is a silly example of diminishment of rights, take that up with Brush, he is the one that brought that up.

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Posted by truly on 11-27-2013 04:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
QE is a policy to stimulate economice growth for the entire country. it is not a bailout. it is training wheels for the economy because your president's policies cant create jobs nor economic growth on their own.

Yes, it is a policy to stimulate and stabilize our economy. But how? By buying "toxic paper", junk assets, primarily held by the banks, financial institutions and the wealth class that foolishly over paid for these assets. So yes, QE is bailing those folks out. Which by definition means it is a "bailout". And this bailout was needed to recover from the disastrous policies of Bush. And it is being carried out by Bush appointees.
You guys talk about accountability, but until you admit that Bush led us into this financial jam then you can't really wrap your head around what it is gonna take to solve the ongoing economic crisis.

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patriotism is supporting your country all of the time and your government when it deserves it.
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Posted by rance56 on 11-27-2013 04:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
Yes, it is a policy to stimulate and stabilize our economy. But how? By buying "toxic paper", junk assets, primarily held by the banks, financial institutions and the wealth class that foolishly over paid for these assets. So yes, QE is bailing those folks out. Which by definition means it is a "bailout". And this bailout was needed to recover from the disastrous policies of Bush. And it is being carried out by Bush appointees.
You guys talk about accountability, but until you admit that Bush led us into this financial jam then you can't really wrap your head around what it is gonna take to solve the ongoing economic crisis.

lol, game set match. TARP bought the toxic assets, QE is buying treasuries and govt agency bonds. thank you for proving my point that its a waste of time having this conversation with you due to your complete lack of understanding.

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Posted by truly on 11-27-2013 04:25 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ????? For AMERICANS????

quote:
Originally posted by michael.magorian

Ben Bernanke was appointed by President Bush, approved by a Republican controlled House and Senate. President Obama took office 2008 with a Democrate controlled House and Senate. The Federal Reserve does not have unlimited term limits like Supreme Court Justices. They can be removed.

And BTW, fed board members are appointed and serve 14 year terms. Bernanke has been the chairman since 2006 and still is to this day. While the terms are not unlimited it is not possible for an incoming President to clear out the board and start with their own picks.

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Posted by truly on 11-27-2013 04:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
lol, game set match. TARP bought the toxic assets, QE is buying treasuries and govt agency bonds. thank you for proving my point that its a waste of time having this conversation with you due to your complete lack of understanding.

You declare victory like Romney! but per your own source, wiki, QE is buying mortgage backed securities, and the reason that they need to be bought to stabilize the economy is that they are also toxic. If the fed didn't buy them no one else would want to pay full price for them. These are mortgage backed securities that ORIGINATED during the Bush era. So these trillions of dollars spent on buying devalued paper are still part of the bailout and cleanup of the disastrous Bush economic policies.

from your source on the issue:
The US Federal Reserve held between $700 billion and $800 billion of Treasury notes on its balance sheet before the recession. In late November 2008, the Federal Reserve started buying $600 billion in mortgage-backed securities.[38] By March 2009, it held $1.75 trillion of bank debt, mortgage-backed securities, and Treasury notes, and reached a peak of $2.1 trillion in June 2010. Further purchases were halted as the economy had started to improve, but resumed in August 2010 when the Fed decided the economy was not growing robustly. After the halt in June, holdings started falling naturally as debt matured and were projected to fall to $1.7 trillion by 2012. The Fed's revised goal became to keep holdings at $2.054 trillion. To maintain that level, the Fed bought $30 billion in two- to ten-year Treasury notes every month.
In November 2010, the Fed announced a second round of quantitative easing, buying $600 billion of Treasury securities by the end of the second quarter of 2011.[39][40] The expression "QE2" became a ubiquitous nickname in 2010, used to refer to this second round of quantitative easing by US central banks.[41] Retrospectively, the round of quantitative easing preceding QE2 was called "QE1". Similarly, "QE3" refers to the third round of quantitative easing following QE2.[42][43]

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Posted by rance56 on 11-27-2013 04:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
You declare victory like Romney! but per your own source, wiki, QE is buying mortgage backed securities, and the reason that they need to be bought to stabilize the economy is that they are also toxic. .[42][43]

why do i even bother.

the mortgage backed securities they are buying thru QE are not toxic, and if this was the reason for their buying of seccurities, then why are they also buying treasuries with QE?

"Quantitative easing (QE) is an unconventional monetary policy used by central banks to stimulate the economy when standard monetary policy has become ineffective.[1][2][3] A central bank implements quantitative easing by buying specified amounts of long term financial assets from commercial banks and other private institutions, thus increasing the monetary base and lowering the yield on those financial assets.[4] This is distinguished from the more usual policy of buying or selling government bonds in order to keep market interest rates at a specified target value.[5][6][7][8]

Expansionary monetary policy typically involves the central bank buying short-term government bonds in order to lower short-term market interest rates.[9][10][11][12] However, when short-term interest rates are at or close to zero, normal monetary policy can no longer lower interest rates.[13] Quantitative easing may then be used by monetary authorities to further stimulate the economy by purchasing assets of longer maturity than short-term government bonds, and thereby lowering longer-term interest rates further out on the yield curve.[14][15] Quantitative easing raises the prices of the financial assets bought, which lowers their yield.[16]

Quantitative easing can be used to help ensure that inflation does not fall below target.[8] Risks include the policy being more effective than intended in acting against deflation (leading to higher inflation in the longer term, due to increased money supply),[17] or not being effective enough if banks do not lend out the additional reserves.[18] According to the IMF and various other economists, quantitative easing undertaken since the global financial crisis of 2007–08 has mitigated some of the adverse effects of the crisis.[19][20][21]

DO YOU SEE TOXIC MENTIONED ANY WHERE IN THERE?

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Posted by rance56 on 11-27-2013 04:57 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ????? For AMERICANS????

quote:
Originally posted by truly
And BTW, fed board members are appointed and serve 14 year terms. Bernanke has been the chairman since 2006 and still is to this day. While the terms are not unlimited it is not possible for an incoming President to clear out the board and start with their own picks.

btw, bernake is the fed resrve chairman, his term is for 4 years, big diffeence than the 14 years of the board members

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Posted by rance56 on 11-27-2013 06:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
In November 2010, the Fed announced a second round of quantitative easing, buying $600 billion of Treasury securities by the end of the second quarter of 201142][43]

so QE2 was the purchase of $600 billion of treausry securities per your own post. but yet you say QE is the purchasing of toxic mortgage backed securities? yet we see QE being done with no mortage backed securities being bought. how is that so? becuase you are so wrong on yoru understanding of this.

TARP-Truobled Asset Relief program is what took care of the toxic sub prime mortgage issues. Banks got about 250 billion to handle thosse issues and that was back years ago.

yet we have truly coming on here claiming that we are now printing up out of thin air 85 billion dollars a month through QE to continue to purchase these toxic assets.

so i ask you this

TARP was only 250 billion to the banks to directly handle the toxic asset issue, yet even after QE1, QE2, we are still spending 85 billion a month to hanle the problem? thats over a trillion dollars in a years time, twice the size of tarp, does that make any sense?

and if that was the case, that means obama is printing 85 billion dollars a month of new tax payers money to BUY TOXIC ASSETS?

and if that is the case, why is the FED watching emploment and inflation numbers to determine when to cut back on QE3-how are those numbers related to toxic assets owned by banks?

whats worse, beign wrong, or not being able to admit it?

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Posted by michael.magorian on 11-27-2013 07:20 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ????? For AMERICANS????

quote:
Originally posted by truly
And BTW, fed board members are appointed and serve 14 year terms. Bernanke has been the chairman since 2006 and still is to this day. While the terms are not unlimited it is not possible for an incoming President to clear out the board and start with their own picks.

Better check that again truly. The office of Chairman of the Federal Reserve has a term of four years, and believe it or not, he was nominated for his second term by President Obama.

Why wouldn't I admit that President Bush signed the TSA into law? It was a popular bill that was voted on and passed by both political parties, in both houses of Congress. They decided on having travel regulations housed under one roof rather than privatized organizations being contracted by different airlines.

truly, you may be terribly ill-informed but you always seem to put a smile on my face.

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Posted by shakethevine on 11-27-2013 07:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
why do i even bother.

the mortgage backed securities they are buying thru QE are not toxic, and if this was the reason for their buying of seccurities, then why are they also buying treasuries with QE?

DO YOU SEE TOXIC MENTIONED ANY WHERE IN THERE?

Rance, would you agree that "Mortgage Backed Securities" are actually/by definition a pool (large group) of toxic assets consisting mainly of failed subprime mortgages?

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Posted by rance56 on 11-27-2013 07:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shakethevine
Rance, would you agree that "Mortgage Backed Securities" are actually/by definition a pool (large group) of toxic assets consisting mainly of failed subprime mortgages?

NO,

mortgage backed securities are a pool or mortgages, but it does not mean they are sub prime or toxic, they could be made up of perfectly fine mortgages or govt back pools

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Posted by TomPurdy on 11-27-2013 08:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
George puts 2 wars on credit card yet no blame just shows how smart the right is all they can do is blame Obama George cuts taxes during wartime first time in history while saying it creates jobs yet when he left office we were losing 750 thousand a month from his Reagan trickle down voodoo economics the right just shut down the government and then caved not getting a single thing making us pay all federal employees back pay for doing nothing you guys got it all figured out ! I know of 3 self employed people that are saving over 400 a month on insurance and this list will grow as many on here are retired and have no clue what there talking about all those on here that are not retired or that don't have employer based health insurance please step forward so I can hear from you on how bad Obama care really is !

Groworg have you forgotten that we were attacked on 9-11! W had the full support of the country when we first went into Iraq and Afganstain, the problem is people are to fickle to see the job through.

As for trickle down economics goes, let me give you an example from your home state. I'm sure you know how bad the Pittsburgh Pirates were for 20 years. The hotels, restaurants, and venders in and around PNC park where dieing on the vine! Nobody wanted to come and watch them lose! Until this year Bob Nutting the EVIL RICH OWNER decided to spend some of his OWN MONEY on top players, and what do you know they have started to win. People have started to attend games,and when that started to happen money began to TRICKLE down to the hotels, restaurant and vendors creating jobs for people in these businesses!! So much so that the guy who plays the saxophone on the bridge before games has made more because more people walk by and through money in his can!!

The Left has so demonized the phrase trickle down economics that people are scared to death of it. However when people are successful their success trickels down to others. That's what makes capitalism the greatest form of government!!! People our free to succeed and drive the economy!!

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