UKC Forums - Bench Braking Pups/Dogs.

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Posted by Ky Show Girl on 10-07-2013 10:23 PM:

your way to funny for me you know my style.SHOW WHAT YOU GOT

Posted by HaleyCreasman on 10-07-2013 10:27 PM:

Re: Bench Braking Pups/Dogs.

quote:
Originally posted by dbaker17
Other than "practice makes perfect", what do you think the best techniques are to use on the bench when the dog is fairly young? Lets say 6 months and younger. How much do you expect of the dog at that age, and how often do you practice? I've been working with my 5 month old pup and she's doing very well for her age. I'm quite pleased. I just wanted to see what others think, especially if the young puppy is "bad" on the bench lol.

For me personally, it's just time and consistency. I don't work a day here, skip a day there, get 5 hours in one week and 10 hours in another week. A lot of people tend to use the 'food' method, work them on the bench and then when they're done, give them their daily food. Because at shows, they're not gonna get fed after showing. In my opinion, it's kind of like hunting - They're either going to do it or they're not. If it doesn't WANT to, and you make it, it's not going to do the best it can do, and you're wasting time you could be spending on a dog that does want to do it.
As for being 'bad' on the bench, I cheat. I use cap blocks (free redneck stacking boxes! Haha) to stand them on. 2 sessions per day when they're young: I work with them for 30 minutes on gaiting, and the blocks. When they're on the blocks, I worry more about teaching them to keep their backs straight and holding their head and tail. Then I give it about an hour and a half so they can go back and run and play and don't get burnt out. Then I spend another 15 minutes on just stacking them on the bench and working with their feet, and about the last 5 minutes on working with them on keeping their feet in place as well as their head and tail. You just have to keep in mind you're not going to go win the world show with a 6 month old puppy.
When they turn about 5 months, the blocks go away and they're on the bench. No more training wheels, it's 'make or break time'. And I start having them 'judged'. By friends they've never met or neighbors they've never met, every time a new person they've never met before. And I have them check their teeth, ears, run their hands over them, go over their back legs, all the procedures of bench or conformation show judges. And we work on holding still. Rumble (the pup in the picture) is 5 months and 5 days old now and it was only 2 days ago that he finally held still for full inspection. I had to hold his head and tail in place, but he finally kept his feet still. Granted, with work and college and getting our hunting dogs in shape, I've been slacking a little with him and got a little behind, but he's still progressing along (what I consider) nicely. His first show is November 2nd and his second show is November 9th so I'll know then what we really need to work on and what he's got mostly down pat. The main key for me in training is just consistency and not getting frustrated. They're just puppies and getting frustrated at them for not having the attention span and calmness of a 3 year old dog is going to get you anywhere.

(I did need to get him higher up on his toes, which would have straightened out his back and un-curled his tail some, big misjudgment on my behalf)

Now this dog, Sadie, on the other hand was a breeze to train. I didn't get her until she was 10 months old, but I had her stack trained by her first birthday because she was just a very fast learner and eager to please. But I had her trained that fast just by following the methods I listed above.

(she's a Leopard, not a Black and Tan, and she isn't registered. I just like for all my dogs to know how to bench lol)

But everyone has their own style. There really isn't any method set in stone of how you should or shouldn't train a bench dog. It just comes down to what works for you and your pup, and whatever gets you two properly show ready.

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Posted by Dirtdevil on 10-07-2013 11:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
that shouldnt be to hard just go up and look at plan b in the
breed section.City dogs are rewritten the history for show dogs
as we speak.

I looked under PlanB .. didn't see any pups ... you're a guy posting as Ky Show Girl ? I dig handles .. but that's kinda wierd.

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 10-08-2013 07:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cynthia
and the puppy class is 6-12 m, so unless you tell us how old, that pup could have been 11m, 30d old and still classified as pup...having already gone thru the feet stages

i see pups with either coondog feet or show dog feet nothing changes in the feet.the pasture area will develop and put more
weight on the feet.that why we talk about walking and running
pups and dogs its not for the feet.

Posted by Krystal Lear on 10-10-2013 12:43 AM:

I've watched plenty of puppies start from birth to about 1 year..and have seen them go through plenty of goofy stages. whether it be a tail curling then going straight, feet going flat for a few weeks, or even bites that go through a stage where they're slightly over or under and then they fix themselves. Just like people, pups go through awkward stages. I think those pups are doing well for their age. Like Cynthia said, when they go through their stages, don't take it out on them. as for the leaning back ? I agree with Cynthia also. Pushing back on their chest until you feel resistance. The tail is often useful. Sometimes it helps to pull the tail back a little, other times pushing forward on the base of it helps. Also, if you set them up with their back feet slightly off the edge of the bench, that also tends to help. Especially if you add in the pushing on the chest with it. Patience and persistence truly are the key when it comes to bench breaking though.

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Posted by dbaker17 on 10-10-2013 02:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Krystal Lear
I've watched plenty of puppies start from birth to about 1 year..and have seen them go through plenty of goofy stages. whether it be a tail curling then going straight, feet going flat for a few weeks, or even bites that go through a stage where they're slightly over or under and then they fix themselves. Just like people, pups go through awkward stages. I think those pups are doing well for their age. Like Cynthia said, when they go through their stages, don't take it out on them. as for the leaning back ? I agree with Cynthia also. Pushing back on their chest until you feel resistance. The tail is often useful. Sometimes it helps to pull the tail back a little, other times pushing forward on the base of it helps. Also, if you set them up with their back feet slightly off the edge of the bench, that also tends to help. Especially if you add in the pushing on the chest with it. Patience and persistence truly are the key when it comes to bench breaking though.

Thanks for your input. It seems like when I have my pup on the bench she really is focused, and behaves rather well compared to being on the ground. She's only 5 months so we've got some time to perfect her I think.

If anyone else would lie to post pics of their pups going thru benching that would be great to see. I'll get some pics up soon.

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Posted by Ky Show Girl on 10-10-2013 03:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dbaker17
Thanks for your input. It seems like when I have my pup on the bench she really is focused, and behaves rather well compared to being on the ground. She's only 5 months so we've got some time to perfect her I think.

If anyone else would lie to post pics of their pups going thru benching that would be great to see. I'll get some pics up soon.

let me tell you my ideal about the ground.i know you girls show
a lot on the ground.i have been talking to sam new girl freind and they show sheep.the way they start them is they have these open trailers with neck catchers on them hook to 4 wheels.what you thank?

Posted by HaleyCreasman on 10-10-2013 03:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
let me tell you my ideal about the ground.i know you girls show
a lot on the ground.i have been talking to sam new girl freind and they show sheep.the way they start them is they have these open trailers with neck catchers on them hook to 4 wheels.what you thank?

I've heard of running them off four wheelers to keep them in shape in the off season, but I wouldn't teach gaiting off of a four wheeler. My style is don't do anything in training you wouldn't do in the show ring, but that's just my personal opinion. From my experience, pups don't even find their gait until they're over 6 months, sometimes a year old, so I don't push it before then anyway.

Posted by HaleyCreasman on 10-10-2013 03:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dbaker17
Thanks for your input. It seems like when I have my pup on the bench she really is focused, and behaves rather well compared to being on the ground. She's only 5 months so we've got some time to perfect her I think.

If anyone else would lie to post pics of their pups going thru benching that would be great to see. I'll get some pics up soon.

This was back when I first started really working with him (About 3.5 months). The picture was timed perfectly but he was hardly holding it for 3 seconds then. There's always room for improvement, so I'm always criticizing my dogs but in the long run I'm really happy with the way this one is turning out.

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 10-10-2013 03:48 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HaleyCreasman
I've heard of running them off four wheelers to keep them in shape in the off season, but I wouldn't teach gaiting off of a four wheeler. My style is don't do anything in training you wouldn't do in the show ring, but that's just my personal opinion. From my experience, pups don't even find their gait until they're over 6 months, sometimes a year old, so I don't push it before then anyway. [/QUOTE

i thought it would be the same.train them to keep there head
level in shape to.they dont use leads showing sheep just put
there hand under there chins.

Posted by HaleyCreasman on 10-10-2013 03:52 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
i thought it would be the same.train them to keep there head
level in shape to.they dont use leads showing sheep just put
there hand under there chins.

Are you talking about gaiting or standing still? Because while gaiting, their heads aren't supposed to be held high in the air. But if you're talking about standing still and stacking, putting them on a slip lead and tying it up how high you want them to hold their head isn't a bad idea. Especially if they're being difficult and you really have to work with their feet when they wanna run all over the place. But I wouldn't do it for a long time.

Posted by dbaker17 on 10-10-2013 03:56 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
let me tell you my ideal about the ground.i know you girls show
a lot on the ground.i have been talking to sam new girl freind and they show sheep.the way they start them is they have these open trailers with neck catchers on them hook to 4 wheels.what you thank?

Let me know how that works.

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 10-10-2013 04:00 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by HaleyCreasman
Are you talking about gaiting or standing still? Because while gaiting, their heads aren't supposed to be held high in the air. But if you're talking about standing still and stacking, putting them on a slip lead and tying it up how high you want them to hold their head isn't a bad idea. Especially if they're being difficult and you really have to work with their feet when they wanna run all over the place. But I wouldn't do it for a long time.

right there med. neck. they would have to be more sraight back to be high or high in the hips.the pic. of b in plan B she
was under 6mths free standing its in setwd year book.

Posted by dbaker17 on 10-10-2013 04:03 AM:

Ky Show Girl

Lets talk seriously. No need for foolish comments. I'm looking for honest conversation on this thread. People are trying to learn and this thread might be good education for some. You have won some big shows, kudos to you but it would be more appreciated and respected if you talked like it instead of rambling on about dragging dogs behind quads. Thanks. All serious input/advice welcome here.

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 10-10-2013 04:30 AM:

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/...zps5827d409.jpg

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 10-10-2013 04:45 AM:

Re: Ky Show Girl

quote:
Originally posted by dbaker17
Lets talk seriously. No need for foolish comments. I'm looking for honest conversation on this thread. People are trying to learn and this thread might be good education for some. You have won some big shows, kudos to you but it would be more appreciated and respected if you talked like it instead of rambling on about dragging dogs behind quads. Thanks. All serious input/advice welcome here.

now show us your i give you whole thread on the development
of the 2013 walker world ch.even her 1st coon.

Posted by dbaker17 on 10-10-2013 05:02 AM:

Re: Re: Ky Show Girl

quote:
Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
now show us your i give you whole thread on the development
of the 2013 walker world ch.even her 1st coon.

Why are you so defensive? She's a nice dog, no one said anything negative about your dog.

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 10-10-2013 05:22 AM:

i was as seriours as a heart attack as we prepare for the premier you brought up ground stuff.

Posted by dbaker17 on 10-10-2013 05:25 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
i was as seriours as a heart attack as we prepare for the premier you brought up ground stuff.

Just said my pup seems more focused on the bench than on the ground. Still a lot of puppy in her.

Posted by Krystal Lear on 10-10-2013 12:19 PM:

Here's a pup out of a litter I bred almost two years ago. She was pretty easily bench broke for the most part. Liked to hold her tail goofy though. Lost contact with the guy that bought her. If she looks familiar to anyone, I'd love to see if I could get a hold of him.

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Posted by Dirtdevil on 10-10-2013 01:55 PM:

Time and timing make the biggest difference ... no trick or method can make up for a dog that sits in the kennel and then gets thrown up on a bench and made to show.

Showing starts with bringing puppies in the house and letting them lay on your lap and watch T.V. ... hauling them to work or on errands ... and a few small lessons early on to get them to stiffen up for you .

You do that and then stack them , rub their tail hair the wrong way ... and just do your thing to get them showing .. and they will come on fast .

But never .. ever .. think you can trick a dog into doing it right with a secret method .... showing is about being comfortable and it's about attitude ! A pup has to feel like he's the star of the show and that bench area is his castle and he's the king.

That's how you get pups to be proud and have that far off look in their eye ... it's because they FEEL proud ...

Look for little signs that the dog isn't feeling it .. those pics of dogs stacked well but eyes closed .. not good , they are giving in .. but they close their eyes because you are pressuring them ... and they are going to their happy place and tuning you out just like we do when pressured by someone nagging us.

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 10-10-2013 02:10 PM:

Just for fun

I have seen dogs placed on shopping cart handles, coke cans. stairs steps and so forth to see which dog would move first and the were trained on the old fashion BENCHES so I am wondering what is the reason in placing them on those benches with raised spaces? are they worked daily on them or what. Just trying to learn

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Posted by Cynthia on 10-10-2013 02:53 PM:

Re: Just for fun

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
I have seen dogs placed on shopping cart handles, coke cans. stairs steps and so forth to see which dog would move first and the were trained on the old fashion BENCHES so I am wondering what is the reason in placing them on those benches with raised spaces? are they worked daily on them or what. Just trying to learn

it helps in teaching them to not move their feet, if you have a mover. when they are higher than the bench and they move a foot they only feel space, nothing to rest it on, so they put it back (or get down as some of mine have).

if they move on the bench, they move a foot to another spot, you get onto them and its a vicious cycle sometimes.

it also makes them unsteady being that much higher, and will make most of them pay attention and concentrate on not falling off.

works for some, not for others.

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Posted by dbaker17 on 10-10-2013 04:09 PM:

Re: Re: Just for fun

quote:
Originally posted by Cynthia
it helps in teaching them to not move their feet, if you have a mover. when they are higher than the bench and they move a foot they only feel space, nothing to rest it on, so they put it back (or get down as some of mine have).

if they move on the bench, they move a foot to another spot, you get onto them and its a vicious cycle sometimes.

it also makes them unsteady being that much higher, and will make most of them pay attention and concentrate on not falling off.

works for some, not for others.

We have used soup cans. Dog doesn't move her feet now. I think every dog is different some are just defiant and want to test you! Lol

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