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Economy

I just don't believe the economy is causing the low numbers. Times are tough there's no question about that. From reading posts on this board I would guess low turnouts are due to a mixture of babbling dogs, mean dogs, me too dogs, hunters that will do anything to win even if its bending the rules. These aren't necessarily my opinions but what a lot of people complain about.

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Al Tarantella

I agree perry....its a combination of everything...I really am on a fine line of hanging up the nite hunt hat..or hanging it up temporarily...

Gas is high and economy sucks...going to a hunt costs money....

If hunts went fine and the best dogs won it wouldn't be bad....but when you deal with some of the crap that goes on it becomes frustrating...bad apples just ruin it....

Why bother spending the money to go to a hunt just to have it broke off in you??? Its not fun...its not enjoyable...and you come home just wondering why you bother messing with it...

I don't know if "the buddy system" is localized and is worse in certain areas or what...but it gets me often...a strange guy with a nice dog and big mouth...after the first drop its time to get rid of their competition and its cut throat....

Friday nite I dealt with a mess...babbling dogs...me tooling dogs...that doesn't bother me..I pack a coon dog..he can hold his own in honest company and I've beat those types of dogs many times...but then the buddy system kicks in...let's slick his den trees...let's fudge the rules...

The last 2 casts I've been on have been like that...

Unsportsmanlike behavior too...not shinning trees...telling me flat out "I don't wanna see a hole in the tree there isn't a coon up there were gunna minus it". Had a guy purposely not tell me when trees were closing and I even asked to stop...


At the club I keep an eye on things...I feel like going to the club won't do a thing to change it because the guy that ends up judging and guiding is the one sitting by the MOH and signs up with 30secs left and who else is in the cast? The other guys in the cast...coincidence that happens and I put up with that when I see it happen?


Maybe tough times is bringing out the worst in some of these guys and they are stooping to all levels to try to win...


Quitting makes me feel like I am letting them win...and makes me feel like I am letting my dog down...


I am thinking my best option is going to hunt only on better nites when hunting will be better and more coons will be on the outside...one thing in common with my bad nites is not so good weather and den trees...don't mean they will all the sudden not see my coon too....but its easier to slick a den than slick a coon..especially if their dog backs mine...


I love how some on here say it is about impossible to get cheated at a nite hunt and bring a coon dog and know the rules and you win every time....in a good hunt you're right....but sometimes it just doesn't go that way...

And its not just me...my buddy comes home from the same clubs and our stories can match each others...

He had 2 guys circling their slicks and minusing another guys legitimate dens...at the end of the nite the 3 dogs left were on a 10ft slick tree...the judge had the score card so padded he was the only one with plus points..the 2 buddies voted to circle the 10ft slick tree and they both agreed "hunt is over and he has plus points! If we minus the tree we don't have a cast winner!".

So not only that cast was corrupt and dirty...but the other nitech cast could have been cheated from a win too....


Its almost a joke really...and sad to see the levels some people will stoop to...


But know the rules and have a coondog and you can't be cheated...so I guess I am completely wrong...my dog must suck and I don't know the rules....

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Team Trackman!!

'PR' Trackman's Dizzy Duke

I think a lot of it has to do with the people that are in charge of the clubs. So many clubs are run in a non professional manor. Some of the older hunters are beginning to retire and the clubs are not welcoming new hunters with the attitude that is appealing to a person in a new situation. The economy sure has something to do with it. How many people over the last 5-6 years have lost everything, even their home. Then look at the people that post on this board who are rude, act like they know everything and are better than you. They post the most stupid idiotic posts then the next day they are advertising" come on out to our hunt its gonna be great". Yeah like your getting my money after your being a dick about every thing you post...

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Jonny Dean LL.B
Rayville, MO

quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
You guys really wana know why?

People bring a dog that isn't ready and when it performs poorly they get discouraged.

The serious hunters and trainers will be at the hunts. Why? Because they put the time in through the week.

Everyone wants to win and folks don't realize when you sign up that is automatically 3 losers per cast.

---

Every person who doesn't hunt the hunts will have their own reasons .... economy and atmosphere are probably the top two .

I do know that the idea of the hunts used to be promoted better and folks felt they had gained something by getting a dog titled.

Today , the idea of promoting a club just doesn't exist ... the guys that make up the local hunts aren't out there trying to make a good impression on the new blood ... they have their own agenda for being there.

Just look at this message board , how many threads are from new hunters bragging on their experience or are about good clubs or the promotion of them ?

There will always be alot of pleasure hunters that dabble in the hunts that help make up casts and occasionally title dogs .. that demographic is where I am and my friends ... and we all agree ...

... the hunts aren't much fun , we don't really need the aggrivation for a title , it's not worth spending the gas money and time away from our fun pleasure hunts.


Clubs and hunts have to follow the same laws of physics ,economics and so forth as everything else ... you get out of something just what you put in ... and that's what we see now.

You guys are right, gas is high, economy sucks and it’s not fun or enjoyable anymore. The buddy system has become a joke at these clubs. It’s just not worth going anymore and spending my hard earned money just to have the buddy system beat my hound! Not to mention the mentality of some members making it less than enjoyable to attend these clubs. New prospecting members come to a club and get met with no “hi welcome to our club” instead they get a cold shunning as if they are not welcome there at all. The members do not promote the clubs as they should, it seems they would want to do a better job at this to make people want to attend their events. After reading a lot of negative things on here and seeing some for myself at these clubs, it makes a person wonder how many of these hounds earned the title they have and how many were gave a title. I enjoy pleasure hunting and I will stick to that, at least I know the only way for my hounds to get done wrong is if an ole coon slicks them and that doesn’t cost any extra lol.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dirtdevil
Every person who doesn't hunt the hunts will have their own reasons .... economy and atmosphere are probably the top two .

I do know that the idea of the hunts used to be promoted better and folks felt they had gained something by getting a dog titled.

Today , the idea of promoting a club just doesn't exist ... the guys that make up the local hunts aren't out there trying to make a good impression on the new blood ... they have their own agenda for being there.

Just look at this message board , how many threads are from new hunters bragging on their experience or are about good clubs or the promotion of them ?

There will always be alot of pleasure hunters that dabble in the hunts that help make up casts and occasionally title dogs .. that demographic is where I am and my friends ... and we all agree ...

... the hunts aren't much fun , we don't really need the aggrivation for a title , it's not worth spending the gas money and time away from our fun pleasure hunts.


Clubs and hunts have to follow the same laws of physics ,economics and so forth as everything else ... you get out of something just what you put in ... and that's what we see now.

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Al Tarantella

Club Participation

For those that feel clubs don't do their part to promote hunts. I'm sure any club will let you step up and lend a hand. The ones complaining about how clubs are run very seldom if ever volunteer to do anything.
As far as hunt numbers go. I dont feel cheating or junky dogs has anything to do with it. The economy is some as also less coon hunters. A lot of folks have just given up hunting all together. Around here a lot of folks are working away from home.
The babbling dog part as I see it. If everyone had independent dogs the babblers only gonna get first strike once. Then it should be a quarter after that.

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David Disotell
(318) 288-1917

Re: Club Participation

quote:

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Originally posted by rghnd123
For those that feel clubs don't do their part to promote hunts. I'm sure any club will let you step up and lend a hand. The ones complaining about how clubs are run very seldom if ever volunteer to do anything.
As far as hunt numbers go. I dont feel cheating or junky dogs has anything to do with it. The economy is some as also less coon hunters. A lot of folks have just given up hunting all together. Around here a lot of folks are working away from home.
The babbling dog part as I see it. If everyone had independent dogs the babblers only gonna get first strike once. Then it should be a quarter after that.

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Lack of coondogs

There just aren't many dogs around worth a flip. Alot of guys think they got a good coondog, come to a hunt or two, dogs not ready and handler doesn't know the rules, they get beat a few times, claim they got cheated cause they don't know the rules. They are they same guys that never can admit they just got beat and maybe ole fido ain't the best around so they make excuses and say they got cheated and refuse to go to hunts anymore.

Dirtdevil

I never said anything about running a club not being fun. I made a comment to the ones that made emphasis on the lack of marketing a hunt. I'll bet anyone out there would deny a little help. You dirt devil have a bad outlook on life.

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David Disotell
(318) 288-1917

This new generation doesnt help either its all instant gradification. They start that crap in school sports everybody has to play regardless of how good they are I even see where some dont keep score at these events so they are teaching them there are no loosers.... Thats fine till the real world slaps them in the face. Not to mention we are fighting all these activist craszy land owners logging housing developments and a ever shrinking coon population. But I think our single biggest problem is our youth we dont have enough youth in our local clubs and hunts. Instead of giving up we all need to keep on walking deal with the cheaters they way we always have and learn to block out the cry babies. If we give up everything will be lost every time one of us gives up we loose a spot in this sport we will never get back so lets all stick this out and do what we can to make things better

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Danny VunCannon
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comp numbers are down here because of the loss of hunting spots.... its hard to prepare for a hunt when you have no place to pleasure hunt much less comp hunt so a lot of people just sold out.... btw i got cheated by a coondog last night... she treed more coon than mine did and dont think she could have done it without cheating lol

Patches

I'm with you man, I get beat alot, sometimes I beat myself but sometimes I do manage to win one and that's what makes me go back.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Just look around at Americans in general today. The nation as a whole is seriously overweight. Especially amongst the school age kids, obesity is the norm. Everywhere you look you got 250 pound 6th graders and that's just the girls. We are no longer a nation of participants, we are now a nation of spectators.
The latest generation would much rather play video games than go outside. Everything evolves.

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I love to hunt the hunts. It is an addiction to me. I will always hunt them as long as they are around. There has been alot of reasons mentioned on here as to why the numbers are
down at the hunts. Most that I have read do have some kind bearing for low numbers. The sad part is, we will never have the attendance we once had. I really miss going to the local club at just a regular ukc hunt and seeing 40 plus dogs there ready to hunt. I can remember when I was club secretary back in the 80's of the SORENTO COONHUNTERS ASSOCIATION. The week before I would pick up 24 Nitehunt trophys. We always gave out a GrNiteCh trophy, NiteCh trophy, and 1st thru 10th place each nite. We always had friday and saturday night hunts back to back. It was a big, big deal back then. There would at times be 80 to 100 people there. Old hunters have died and there are not the young hunters to replace them. Kids grow up way more different than we did. When I was early in my teens, there would be 6 to 8 of us hunting every weekend. Just isn't that way anymore. I don't think it ever will be.

It sure don't help when every week someone is on here bashing the hunts the way they do. Why would any newbie want to go to a hunt with all the garbage that is told on here by a few whinners. I hunt 6 different states almost every year. I guess the cheating must be in a state I don't hunt in. Because I have only had 1 problem in several years that was a case of cheating. Most problems come from people who have problems with everything they do in life, not just coonhunting. JMO

Does anyone remember the "2 hour maniac" article and thread? Their are SOME problems with the hunts and these people do exist although I agree the vast majority if people entering them are good, honest people.

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Al Tarantella

I miss those hunts back in the 80's and early 90's. I remember in high school we would hunt all week and on weekends you could find a hunt somewhere within driving distance. whether it be ukc, nkc or pkc we loved to hunt the hunts. I guess that is the reason that when you granded a dog out back then you had to beat some nice hounds to do it. 40 to 60 dogs would be at almost every hunt. now you have 15 dogs to show up and most of them ain't ready for the hunts. it takes some away from the titles now days. We had coon dogs first, then we took those same meat dogs and hunted them in the hunts. No youth cast or youth hunts. we hunted against everyone. the old timers were there to help you and if you beat them they were the first to shake your hand and encourage you. now days you beat someone it causes hard feelings to some of the hunters.

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Its a combination of all the things mentioned that are taking the tolls on the hunts. The "cheating" has been going on forever but some of the so called cheating are people not knowing the rules very well. Judge and hunted a cast a couple weeks ago, guy got shut out on strike swore up and down I was wrong about his score but just a case of not knowing the rules. To his friends he probably got cheated that's how that starts.
Second its a case of UKC not being able to police everything, there are clubs here I KNOW a lot of pencil titles have been made. What's funny some are either banned or on probation from PKC or AKC but still hold UKC events. If the kennel clubs would work together to require clubs to be in good standings in 2 or 3 of the other clubs would be a start. Seems to me a red flag should be raised if these clubs can't stay in good standings with other kennel clubs.
Same names have been winning for years, time for some of the old timers to go.... and try and save some of the integrity before its gone but at the same time I know a lot of old timers have done and are still doing a lot for our sport along with some great young people I have met!

You guys are funny. Even the "blame game" is a competition with you guys. Its these people that hurt the hunts, no no, its this type that hurts them. No no, must be the hound they are packing. No no, it is the gas and the economy. Lmao! Suffice to say that you competition folks make for fun reading! None of you can see that the common denominator in all the arguments is the game itself.

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“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

Been hunting in the hunts for forty years and can honestly say that there has not been a time that I felt that any of the cast I have ever been on where so far out of contoll then a good judge couldn't keep controll of it....maybe the hunts are not for everyone they are what you make of them like anything else your not going in to it blind,not a pie walk at church.....

I think I'm the "Crazy" that was referred to earlier about the 2 to 2 vote in 3 dog cast. That was a simple "type-o" on my part. Sorry! Lol big thumbs and a cell phone don't work well together. No harm done.
As for low entries, probably some of it all. Lack of knowledge on the rules, economy, not many hunters etc. I believe we're doing it to ourselves though. To me the best part of the hunt is talking and looking at the hounds etc. Maybe we're putting to much emphasis on winning? IDK in my opinion jealous is the root cause of the problem.
Look at all the bickering and finger pointing that goes on just on these forums! The only thing most of us agree on is that there is a problem. Jmo

I think the reason the hunts are down because people say they got cheated, lack of dog power, an a lack of hunting spots.

Hunts around the house here there doing good if they can make a cast.

When fall comes around people won't hunt the hunts because they can't lie for there dogs. Summer time comes around the hunts are up because people can find stuff to lie for there dogs.

I think if you can't hunt your dog during the fall then you can't hunt the hunts at all. The COON DOGS shine during the fall.

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