UKC Forums - Crossbred breed

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
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-- Crossbred breed (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928308077)

Posted by beardogdave on 03-14-2013 05:34 AM:

some of us big game guys breed the best to the best not for color great hounds in all breeds depends on what family chaacteristics you want . just my opinion boys

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Posted by kyhunter50 on 03-14-2013 06:01 AM:

you can win a lot of money in pkc if you hunt a black n tan/ walker cross. check them out.

Posted by Nat Thomas on 03-14-2013 08:39 AM:

I really don't think it's that easy... Hardrock was a freak. How many other Black and Tan/walker crosses have won a ton of money...

Posted by Jonathan Crump on 03-14-2013 12:10 PM:

We are going to cross a English male and Walker female later this year. She comes in heat twice a year and we are going to breed her the second time. I am going to keep one pup and we will sell the rest. I am looking forward to see what these two coondawgs produce. I myself have seen too many wired up, nervous wreck dogs from line breeding.

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-14-2013 08:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Crump
We are going to cross a English male and Walker female later this year. She comes in heat twice a year and we are going to breed her the second time. I am going to keep one pup and we will sell the rest. I am looking forward to see what these two coondawgs produce. I myself have seen too many wired up, nervous wreck dogs from line breeding.

I see where you said you are going to keep one and sell the rest....
Since these won't have papers, do you think they will be easy to sell?
I assume you mean to single register the one you keep after she reaches a year old and can prove she can tree a coon and pass the other single registration requirements .....but are there alot of other people out there that will pay good money for a pup with no papers that may....after you raise it up be able to pass the single registration requirements? I am just wondering if there is much of a market for pups like this when it seems even the best purebred pups are sometimes hard to move. Do you know of anyone who had a crossbreed litter and were able to sell the pups, or did they end up giving them away? If you make this cross, what would you be pricing these pups for?

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Posted by Jonathan Crump on 03-14-2013 09:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
I see where you said you are going to keep one and sell the rest....
Since these won't have papers, do you think they will be easy to sell?
I assume you mean to single register the one you keep after she reaches a year old and can prove she can tree a coon and pass the other single registration requirements .....but are there alot of other people out there that will pay good money for a pup with no papers that may....after you raise it up be able to pass the single registration requirements? I am just wondering if there is much of a market for pups like this when it seems even the best purebred pups are sometimes hard to move. Do you know of anyone who had a crossbreed litter and were able to sell the pups, or did they end up giving them away? If you make this cross, what would you be pricing these pups for?

Probably never worry about registering mine. I had a walker x bluetick few years ago I got everything to single register him the day after I buried him. Getting rid of them wont be a problem between coon hunters, hog hunters, bear hunters and probably some just be pets. As far as cost I dont know.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-14-2013 09:47 PM:

I see, thanks for answering and good luck if you make a cross like that...shane

Posted by easttxranch on 03-14-2013 10:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
I see where you said you are going to keep one and sell the rest....
Since these won't have papers, do you think they will be easy to sell?
I assume you mean to single register the one you keep after she reaches a year old and can prove she can tree a coon and pass the other single registration requirements .....but are there alot of other people out there that will pay good money for a pup with no papers that may....after you raise it up be able to pass the single registration requirements? I am just wondering if there is much of a market for pups like this when it seems even the best purebred pups are sometimes hard to move. Do you know of anyone who had a crossbreed litter and were able to sell the pups, or did they end up giving them away? If you make this cross, what would you be pricing these pups for?

Shane,
Not everyone concentrates on Papers and How much money they can make. And Yes he can get papers on those pups, Just not UKC papers. And from what I have been reading, the other way may be the best way to go. I don't want an inbred redbone and it seems a lot of redbone breeders are only wanting to inbreed instead of bringing in different bloodlines and different traits in UKC.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 03-14-2013 10:58 PM:

Why allow it when you can just pick out what they look like and reg it as one of them. No matter who knows what. Yall remember Rock and Red don't ya?

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-14-2013 11:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by easttxranch
Shane,
Not everyone concentrates on Papers and How much money they can make. And Yes he can get papers on those pups, Just not UKC papers. And from what I have been reading, the other way may be the best way to go. I don't want an inbred redbone and it seems a lot of redbone breeders are only wanting to inbreed instead of bringing in different bloodlines and different traits in UKC.

Mark, can you just explain to me how you can get papers on a crossbreed dog that doesn't fit the breed standards and or isn't able to tree a coon? I am pretty sure when I registered my last dog with pkc I had to make a copy of it's ukc papers before they would even open register it.
And I know not everyone is out to make money....I am one of those people. I have not sold a pup or charged a stud fee in over 20 yrs...but I sure have given alot away to the right people.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-14-2013 11:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Why allow it when you can just pick out what they look like and reg it as one of them. No matter who knows what. Yall remember Rock and Red don't ya?

well, because redbones and blueticks associations do not allow known crossbreeds to be single registered...thats why there is some buzz on this topic. Some breeds do...but most of those breeds do not have to have almost uniform color to fit into their breed standards like redbones do. Walkers and elglish are wide open on what color or combination they can be so they could take in crossbreeds without it really effecting their breed standards. But certain dogs crossed on redbones will produce many pups that might not be able to fit the redbone breed standard....such as black pups from a b&t x redbone cross or brindle pups from a plott x redbone cross and who knows what a splotchy mess a leopard x redbone cross might look like....
Some people in some breeds feel that ukc should do what pkc did and offer a registration option for cross breeds instead of having some of the breeds take in and single register a dog basically because it looks enough like that breed.
A cross breed option would allow those who want to experiment with crossing different breeds to do so and then register them and compete with them as what they are a cross breed 50% one breed and 50% of another. It would also allow breeders to have a record of these dogs and titles earned by them and pad details about their offspring just like other breeds. This could help keep people from slapping papers on a dog or lying about what it is really out of so they can single register it. That is waht this poll is trying to determine. Would the owners of the other breeds be opposed to ukc opening a cross breed option?

Posted by john Duemmer on 03-15-2013 12:13 AM:

UKC.could just offer a set of papers that would allow a dog to compete. In the spot where the breed goes just put OTHER.
Might generate a few more entries for the clubs and a few bucks for UKC.
I know a few guys with some mixed up coontreers that would like to be able to hunt them.

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Posted by Blacklabel on 03-15-2013 03:54 PM:

Ive owned a crossbred and had good success in the hunts with her. She sold a couple times since ive owner her and resides in IA now. Ntch with4 wins i belive when i sold her. Registered walker out of a big name stud.

Im all for cross breeding. And if you keep up with the bloodlines its an outcross that you can cross back into later to keep your line going.

Jed finely has won a stack of cash with his crossbreds, both trader and his daddy. Traders momma was crossbred and won quite a bit as well.

Again IM ALL FOR IT.

If they just make the "other" breed people can be more honest, this world could use more of that.

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-15-2013 04:55 PM:

Justin,
Thats why alot of people who hunt other breeds would like to see a crossbreed registry option in ukc like they have in pkc....to help keep things honest and give credit to both sides of the pedigree. Not really fair to call a half breed which ever breed it looks the most like and all the credit go towards that breed when the dog is 50% of another breed as well. Alot of us think it is working well in pkc and would work good in ukc for those who want to try crossbreeding. I have nothing against guys trying it...in fact I would like to see what some of these crossbreeds could do...but I think they should be classified as what they are ...crossbreeds...and not made to pick which breed they can be single registered in just because they look more like that breed. Their dna is an equal 50/50 split and it would be nice if ukc could recognize that and provide those dogs their own category just like they do the purebreds.

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 03-15-2013 06:05 PM:

I have Cross bred "Pure Bred" hounds for nearly 15 years now. I am a Member of Several UKC clubs and have always been to ever event that Offers Open Class Field Trial events and Night Hunts .. And I have waited at clubs that offered Grade/Open Class Hunts ending up to be the Only One to show so usualy I guide when this happens ..

I would love to hunt PKC But the Travel to the Closest Club is right at 90 mi. one way ..

UKC recently Shutdown 3 of my closest clubs .. So 90 miles isn't looking to bad to drive at the moment ..

This is the Ped of my last litter 12 week ago ..

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Posted by pigman816 on 03-15-2013 07:08 PM:

Re: Crossbred breed

quote:
Originally posted by easttxranch
Who would like to see UKC form a new breed for crossbred hounds like Walker x Redbone or Plott X Bluetick and so on?

It's known as the English breed. Nothing against the dogs, but UKC ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT allow them to be registered as "full bred". I know guys that hunt them, and respect them and the 'breed', just think we should call a spade a spade. JMO....Not intended to hurt feelings.....

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 03-15-2013 07:36 PM:

3/4 Treeing Walker X 1/4 Bloodhound ( Wondo River KONG on top and Treeing walker X Bloodhound on the Bottom Off Texas Lotto Walker line)

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Posted by casey brown on 03-15-2013 08:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
I see where you said you are going to keep one and sell the rest....
Since these won't have papers, do you think they will be easy to sell?
I assume you mean to single register the one you keep after she reaches a year old and can prove she can tree a coon and pass the other single registration requirements .....but are there alot of other people out there that will pay good money for a pup with no papers that may....after you raise it up be able to pass the single registration requirements? I am just wondering if there is much of a market for pups like this when it seems even the best purebred pups are sometimes hard to move. Do you know of anyone who had a crossbreed litter and were able to sell the pups, or did they end up giving them away? If you make this cross, what would you be pricing these pups for?

We never had a problem selling walker/english cross pups. Going to make a cross myself again as soon as my femaly comes in. Great cross, seems to be really balanced hounds

Posted by casey brown on 03-15-2013 08:13 PM:

Re: Re: Crossbred breed

quote:
Originally posted by pigman816
It's known as the English breed. Nothing against the dogs, but UKC ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT allow them to be registered as "full bred". I know guys that hunt them, and respect them and the 'breed', just think we should call a spade a spade. JMO....Not intended to hurt feelings.....

You should study your history and see what breed most of our hounds came from.

Posted by pigman816 on 03-15-2013 09:07 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Crossbred breed

quote:
Originally posted by casey brown
You should study your history and see what breed most of our hounds came from.

History is just that....if you want a pure bred dog, get a pure bred. If you want a mucked up pedigree or don't care about the pedigree, get a English hound. Take a look a the current and historical list for English dogs. i.e., .......Swamp Rooster, #1 historical.....i.e., ....Main Street Max, #1 current. Again, nothing against the dogs, facts are facts. Do not question me on my knowledge or history, sir. I am stating an opinion, and as of this morning, that was NOT a right Obama was trying to take away, YET! Happy hunting, regardless of whats at the end of your chain.....Jim Harper

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-15-2013 09:39 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Crossbred breed

quote:
Originally posted by casey brown
You should study your history and see what breed most of our hounds came from.

But do you think there should be an option to register dogs as a crossbreed?
I understand that walker x english crosses could be single registered in either breed because the breed standards on color is pretty wide. But in some breeds who have a narrow color standard like redbone, b&t, and plott.....cross breeding produces alot of pups that may not fit into what is acceptable as far as color goes. Instead of just culling those who can't be single registered because they have too much white or stripes....wouldn't it be nice to be able to register them as a crossbreed and then be able to compete in ukc events along side of pure breeds? I have nothing against cross breeds or the people who want to try crosses like that....I just don't like cross breeds being forced into pure breeds because single registering them in a pure breed is the only option if you want to compete in ukc events. I think pkc got it right when they created a separate category just for crossbreeds that lets them be known for what they really are and allows them to compete against pure breeds in the same events.

Posted by pigman816 on 03-15-2013 09:48 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Crossbred breed

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
But do you think there should be an option to register dogs as a crossbreed?
I understand that walker x english crosses could be single registered in either breed because the breed standards on color is pretty wide. But in some breeds who have a narrow color standard like redbone, b&t, and plott.....cross breeding produces alot of pups that may not fit into what is acceptable as far as color goes. Instead of just culling those who can't be single registered because they have too much white or stripes....wouldn't it be nice to be able to register them as a crossbreed and then be able to compete in ukc events along side of pure breeds? I have nothing against cross breeds or the people who want to try crosses like that....I just don't like cross breeds being forced into pure breeds because single registering them in a pure breed is the only option if you want to compete in ukc events. I think pkc got it right when they created a separate category just for crossbreeds that lets them be known for what they really are and allows them to compete against pure breeds in the same events.

AGREED!!

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....816-558-5352
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R.I.P.---
CH 'PR' Beavercreek Stonecold Blu Bozo

Posted by casey brown on 03-15-2013 10:05 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Crossbred breed

quote:
Originally posted by pigman816
History is just that....if you want a pure bred dog, get a pure bred. If you want a mucked up pedigree or don't care about the pedigree, get a English hound. Take a look a the current and historical list for English dogs. i.e., .......Swamp Rooster, #1 historical.....i.e., ....Main Street Max, #1 current. Again, nothing against the dogs, facts are facts. Do not question me on my knowledge or history, sir. I am stating an opinion, and as of this morning, that was NOT a right Obama was trying to take away, YET! Happy hunting, regardless of whats at the end of your chain.....Jim Harper

WHATEVER

Posted by Dale Young on 03-16-2013 02:27 AM:

Close single registration on EVERYTHING we have now.
Open a crossbreed catagory with a single registration for hound crossbreeds and let everything unknown fall in there along with whatever breeding the crossbreeds do and let them hunt .
This would be for crosses off our 7 recognized breeds .

Down side might be only crossbreeds down the road .

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-16-2013 03:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Young
Close single registration on EVERYTHING we have now.
Open a crossbreed catagory with a single registration for hound crossbreeds and let everything unknown fall in there along with whatever breeding the crossbreeds do and let them hunt .
This would be for crosses off our 7 recognized breeds .

Down side might be only crossbreeds down the road .

I like this idea the best. It will keep the other breeds pure...cut down on paper swapping and dishonesty to get around some current single registering rules and let people who want to crossbreed compete on a level playing field with the purebreds....then we can judge if any of the crossbreeds are proving to be better than the purebreds. Best option in my opinion!

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