UKC Forums - Hunting Judges

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-- Hunting Judges (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928307812)

Posted by walkerdog1 on 03-13-2013 04:20 PM:

If its that bad you and the other cast members go back to the moh get the guy scratched get a new judge and go hunting

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Posted by ssgied on 03-13-2013 05:20 PM:

Almost anytime a call is made by hunting judge, you have the right to vote on that call. Also if a call is not made that you feel should have been, you can vote on that too. If you and the rest of the cast let a hunting judge rairoad the hunt, then it is your own fault.
The rules are designed to prevent this, and if applied properly it works.JMO

Posted by tony.beals on 03-13-2013 05:52 PM:

Cast Vote

I agree with ssgied, if we let it happen it is are own fault and we have know one to blame but our selves, I have made that mistake myself, either because I did not understand the rule or because I did not want to make waves, again only myself to blame. And as far as comment about Brother Davids comment on doesn't matter what the rule is, I believe he was making a statement that what ever the rule is if there is a question it should be able to have a cast vote, not that he whats only rules that benifit himself.

No matter how we change the rules in sports there will always be someone that does not like the rule, UKC, PKC, or any other organization that does competion will never have a set of perfect rules. Just like other sports it is just that competion and someone will always be unhappy with or find faults with it's guidelines.

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Posted by cody jaster on 03-13-2013 06:26 PM:

If you don't mind me asking...what kind of dog do you hunt that he didn't like? Also, you go by the name of Brother David so I'm assuming you are a preacher, Christian or both. That is a good thing! My point is that the judge may not have liked YOU. Maybe he was discriminating against you as a Christian. You know Brother...the bible tells us that will happen. It happened to Jesus so it will happen to us. Jesus also says for us to turn the other cheek. If a man asks for your cloak, you give him your tunic too! He doesn't say whine about it or try and gripe about it.... Better luck too you next time at the hunts! I guess you can call me Brother Cody!!!

Posted by Bar M on 03-13-2013 06:34 PM:

Re: Hunting Judges

quote:
Originally posted by Brother David
In my original post I tried very hard to make a problem with what thought to be an overly bias judge about me . What do you instead being able to get my point out I was told repeatly get over it and grow up. So here is my real problem .

Recently at the Ga. State hunt I honestly felt like myself and my dog were judged differently because of the breed of hound I choose to hunt. As we preparing to make our first cast it was evident that what I had on the end my leash wasnt worthy to hunt the same ground as his . During the first cast the judge was 1st an 1st with a fine man holding all 2nd during 5 I ask could we move closer for my dog wasnt treed and request denied until others spokeup. When get to tree it is maybe 10 ft tall wirh NO leaves at all . During the whole 10 mins. which he gets he repatly ask me wheres my dog . I stated hunting with 2nd which left tree the whole time his dog is treed an english do is treeing with him every breath handler is made to strike or handle dog on closed tree ( 5MINS. OR BETTER) but as soon as my dog appears in the lite I am instructed to handle my dog . This continues the entire nite wanting to minus my dog for everthing possible while others hunt .

MY POINT MORE RULE INTERPTS NEED TO GO TO CAST VOTE WHEN YOU HUNTING JUDGES WHO HAVE ONLY THEIR INYREST IN MIND

TRIED NOT GET UNDER BUS ALONE BUT YA'LL WOULDNT LET ME

Are you questioning the Judges actions by saying he is using the rules to his favor??? what you said was an OBVIOUS slick tree he intentionally used all the shine time just hoping your dog would come in and cover or come close enough he could have you handle it. when he realized you dog would come in a cover a closed tree he used it the rest of the hunt. Correct??? Sounds like you have what I call a pleasure coon hound and not a compitition hound. Your dog realizes the tree is where all the action is and will come by to check it. Alot of pleasure hunters /not all/ do like a dog that will come in to a tree with a coon when hunting several dogs together. You may need to work on keeping your dog from covering. Good luck.

Posted by Brother David on 03-13-2013 07:53 PM:

Really no one who read this post has a problem with one dog treeing continually and rhe handler not being made to handle is ok but rather I have bad attitude and a sorry dog for suggestion more things need to up for cast vote . No wonder society is suffering .I had support from the other cast members all nite an this alone kept the ? of the card .I have chosen not to use any names, type of cast or anyother way to identify didnt even complain to moh let judge know I didnt approve and tried to start an INTELLIGENT thread on hunting judges . I DO APPOLOGIZE FOR GOING OVER EVERYONES HEAD

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Posted by walkerdog1 on 03-13-2013 08:25 PM:

You've been given every way that would have taken care of this problum but you refuse to see it this has gone over your head you don't want the right answers you want someone to agree with you this is your problum and yours alone

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get in the dark and get hooked

Posted by Brother David on 03-13-2013 09:18 PM:

Walkerdog1

I handled it in the woods with the support of other cast members dont want any harm to come anybody and wont issue a complaint . Now tell me what us as ukc hunters can to sfop this problem . I am not alone in having issues with judges .

THANKS FOR ALL THE PM'S FROM THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND AND SUPPORT THIS

LARRY D. WALKER I FEEL YOUR PAIN LOL!!!!!!

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Posted by jculler8 on 03-13-2013 10:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Brother David
According to many as well as paul frederick when tree is closed and you are told to handle your dog you must or be scratch . But all of you still miss the point its about insuring hunting judges dont push own agenda .I could care less what the rule was . This guy constantly looked for reason to minus me . We had a 3-4 cast vote to circle a nasty viney tree he made alone and this guy continue to shine shake and try to talk the other two into changing their vote .

ONCE AGAIN FOR EVERYOBE WHO HAS BECOME CONFUSED ITS ABOUT HUNTING AND WHAT NEEDS TO BE UP FOR VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can't read that's the problem! Paul DID NOT say that!

He told EVERYONE SEVERAL times that "if the dog could not be handled at the tree because it continued to hunt, that its strike should remain open and nothing could be done until his track was finished!"

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Posted by walkerdog1 on 03-13-2013 10:05 PM:

I've never drawn anyone like your speaking of when honest people like yourself draw a crook like him you should file a formal complaint and get those people suspended

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 03-14-2013 03:21 PM:

Hunting Judges are something that is here, and will stay. There is almost no way to have it any other way in these days and times, and continue with the sport as we know it now. Not to many folks are going to come to your hunts, just to judge, unless they are paid in some form like the PKC does. Sure, there are those who have no business judging. The only way to make sure those don't carry the card, is to file those formal complaints with UKC, and to let the folks who are running the events know of problems when they occur. As a MOH , State Association and local club President, that is information that is very useful in helping select good judges and weeding out the bad ones. For the most part, I believe that the vast majoroity of the people who have a score card placed in their hands consider it an honor to be chosen, and will uphold the rules as they are and not push an agenda. Sure, honest mistakes can be and are made, but normal channels usually fix those things in the woods, and everyone remains friends.

Sure there are those who out for their own agenda, and will stop at nothing, not even a written in black and white rule to enforce it. Thats the ones we as hunters should be sure to make sure they do not get a card. When something such as this happens, and its a provable offense, the Formal Complaint s the way to start the ball rolling and ensure that justice is done. You see it in the Bloodlines magazine all the time about judge privaleges being suspended for folks. Why do you think that is? It sure isn't because someone did nothing.

Hunting Judges ensure that the clubs doesn't have to turn away dogs, for lack of non-hunting judges. Remember this. The rules are own the back of each scorecard that is carried to the woods, and a simple look at the back sometimes corrects some vastly wrong ideas. In those rules i bet yopu'll find the part about an MOH or club being able to use a non-hunting judge if needed for good reason, and in such instances, I myself have done just that.

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Posted by Jonathan Crump on 03-14-2013 04:55 PM:

I always thought the cast could keep the judge in line if they had balls enough to do so.

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Posted by Brother David on 03-14-2013 06:15 PM:

We did but as hunters we a rule for an option to cast vote a questionable call

Rock still wating on call
Even though we dont get to vote we do supply some needs

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Posted by JiM on 03-14-2013 06:42 PM:

You apparently have some sort of mental block here Brother. It has been pointed out by several on this thread that EVERY decision any hunting judge makes can be questioned and voted on by the cast and if a majority out votes the judge, then the judges decision is overruled. There are no exceptions to that. The scorecard MUST reflect the majority decision. If a judge refused to abide by this, rule 18(b), the cast should then vote to scratch the judge and move on with a new judge.

This was explained before on your first thread Brother David, the one you had deleted and it has been explained by others on this thread. Something just isn't getting through.

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Posted by walkerdog1 on 03-14-2013 06:45 PM:

You do get to vote when a hunting judge is used and majority rules if he refused to do that you and the rest of your cast should have went back to the M.O.H

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Posted by ov_blues on 03-14-2013 06:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Brother David
We did but as hunters we a rule for an option to cast vote a questionable call

Was this supposed to say "we did but as hunters we need a rule for an option to cast vote a questionable call"?

If so, several people have told you on here that you can question any call a hunting judge makes or doesn't make but possibly should have. Then there is a cast vote and if the majority of the cast disagrees with the judge then the call the judge made is overturned. Regardless how the cast vote turns out a ? mark can remain on the card and be brought back to the Master Of Hounds or Hunt Chairman for a ruling.

Scoring of trees, calling time out, and dogs returning to a previously scored tree are 3 things that automatically are determined by a cast vote and majority of cast rules.

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