UKC Forums - tree count down yes or no

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-- tree count down yes or no (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928306631)

Posted by amazingcursouth on 03-07-2013 02:59 AM:

we can poll all we want but it WILL NOT change anything. i like UKC but they have never been known in the 25 yrs i have been doing this to change a rule far as points. so i don't see where they will listen now.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 03-07-2013 03:14 AM:

A tree countdown would go through the breed reps I believe. Its been brought up a few times and always fails.

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Posted by K. Singletary on 03-07-2013 03:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by tim griffin
Striking for 25 treeing for 125 equals 150
Striking for 100 covers 4 minutes later for 75 equals 175
Your coon dog is beat by the covering dog

That's one drop, what about the rest of the the 2 hours. Surely, the same dog isn't getting 25 on every drop and surely the same dog isn't getting 100 on every drop. Real casts just don't go that way.

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Posted by josh on 03-07-2013 03:51 AM:

Guess this horse isnt quite dead yet....

If your getting beat by a dog that covers at 4:25..... Sorry, but a countdown wont help you.

The agrivating ones are the ones that open when they smell dirt and cover just as quick......Countown dosent affect these at all.

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Posted by jdc on 03-07-2013 03:55 AM:

tree count down doesn't bother me but I would rather change strike points before worrying about tree points. In Ukc breed associations have to vote it in and there is only one breed in the past that has been in favor of the count down.

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Posted by Nat Thomas on 03-07-2013 05:23 AM:

If you aren't for a countdown on the tree then you aren't used to the quality of dogs that I am. A dog that strikes for 25 and trees for 125 3 times CAN be considered a Coondog (notice i said CAN! there is other factors) A dog that strikes for 100 3 times, covers once after 2 minutes for 75, covers after 3 minutes for 75, and covers after 1 minute 10 seconds for 75 is a me tooing idiot that needs shot. Even If there is a dog on the cast that is a quicker track dog, better locater etc... There is absolutely no excuse for a dog covering after 10-20 seconds. They need to get the hell outta dodge. But who won the cast I just described? The me-too junk. If there was a countdown he would have been beat. It will never happen though... Wouldn't wanna offend anyone (mainly the 75% of owners and handlers that show up at a Ukc hunt with junk....)

How about we just make 1st tree 125 points and everyone else automatically goes in for 25?!?! Reward the coon treers... If you have a Coondog you should be just fine... I guess we would find out how many of these big name 95% accurate super all grand Coondogs really are good at Treeing real live Ricky's instead of tagging along!!!!

Posted by patches9452 on 03-07-2013 06:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Nat Thomas
If you aren't for a countdown on the tree then you aren't used to the quality of dogs that I am. A dog that strikes for 25 and trees for 125 3 times CAN be considered a Coondog (notice i said CAN! there is other factors) A dog that strikes for 100 3 times, covers once after 2 minutes for 75, covers after 3 minutes for 75, and covers after 1 minute 10 seconds for 75 is a me tooing idiot that needs shot. Even If there is a dog on the cast that is a quicker track dog, better locater etc... There is absolutely no excuse for a dog covering after 10-20 seconds. They need to get the hell outta dodge. But who won the cast I just described? The me-too junk. If there was a countdown he would have been beat. It will never happen though... Wouldn't wanna offend anyone (mainly the 75% of owners and handlers that show up at a Ukc hunt with junk....)

How about we just make 1st tree 125 points and everyone else automatically goes in for 25?!?! Reward the coon treers... If you have a Coondog you should be just fine... I guess we would find out how many of these big name 95% accurate super all grand Coondogs really are good at Treeing real live Ricky's instead of tagging along!!!!

you know everybody can make excuses for getting beat by a me too dog when all they have to do is get a better strike dog.... and no it does not have to babbel to win.... i hunt 3rd and 4th strike dogs and win my share without a countdown.... you need the total package to win from strike to tree.... get a dog you dont need to change the rules to win with

Posted by Nat Thomas on 03-07-2013 07:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
you know everybody can make excuses for getting beat by a me too dog when all they have to do is get a better strike dog.... and no it does not have to babbel to win.... i hunt 3rd and 4th strike dogs and win my share without a countdown.... you need the total package to win from strike to tree.... get a dog you dont need to change the rules to win with

Who said anything about needing to Change the rules to win? I don't have a problem winning. It doesn't have anything to do with that... It has everything to do with making it that much harder for an instant strike dog that covers for 75! And there's more than people want to admit... How many dogs like this would still show up at a hunt if they knew after a minute they go in for 25? I bet we would see a whole diff class of hound every weekend. Kinda like going to a different KC hunt that does have a countdown!!!!

Posted by patches9452 on 03-07-2013 11:25 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Nat Thomas
Who said anything about needing to Change the rules to win? I don't have a problem winning. It doesn't have anything to do with that... It has everything to do with making it that much harder for an instant strike dog that covers for 75! And there's more than people want to admit... How many dogs like this would still show up at a hunt if they knew after a minute they go in for 25? I bet we would see a whole diff class of hound every weekend. Kinda like going to a different KC hunt that does have a countdown!!!!

how do you do this without changing the rules sir... if you have no problem winning whats the point.... entries are down enough now.... why make them lower so the its evenn easier to make that grand nite.... i will say it again if you need a count down to win you need another dog... if hes an instant strike dog minus him if hes not tracking if he is you better get by yourself somewhere

Posted by James B Grice on 03-07-2013 11:47 AM:

Award the dog that is doing the work.... that you can honestly judge.You can walk to a tree and see a coon but you can not honestly judge a strike unless you can see the coon as your dog barks.To many barks made that dont mean a thing,babbling, some will bark when they take a crap.Some will bark at everything, some bark at nothing. Some of these rules are so outdated ...Look at this picture...you cut 4 dogs loose and all 4 get split .WITH A COON......so your score looks like this...100/100....100/75...100/50...100/25...It dont take a very smart man to figure there were 4 ....DIFFERENT TRACKS....but the other 3 dogs did exactly the same thing but because of todays 40 year old rules 3 dogs will not be treated fairly for the work they did.......In my opinion 2 min is too long to keep a tree open.Another thing that bothers me is why move a dog up to first tree if the handler declared him treed for a lesser position( split tree I understand,but just because the dog that was declared treed first decides to leave...IT DONT CHANGE THE FACT THAT THE HANDLER PUT THE DOG ON THE TREE AT A LESSER POSITION...Do away with strike points ...too much barking going on and we realy dont have a clue what most are barking at.....GOOD NIGHT

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-07-2013 12:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by James B Grice
Award the dog that is doing the work.... that you can honestly judge.You can walk to a tree and see a coon but you can not honestly judge a strike unless you can see the coon as your dog barks.To many barks made that dont mean a thing,babbling, some will bark when they take a crap.Some will bark at everything, some bark at nothing. Some of these rules are so outdated ...Look at this picture...you cut 4 dogs loose and all 4 get split .WITH A COON......so your score looks like this...100/100....100/75...100/50...100/25...It dont take a very smart man to figure there were 4 ....DIFFERENT TRACKS....but the other 3 dogs did exactly the same thing but because of todays 40 year old rules 3 dogs will not be treated fairly for the work they did.......In my opinion 2 min is too long to keep a tree open.Another thing that bothers me is why move a dog up to first tree if the handler declared him treed for a lesser position( split tree I understand,but just because the dog that was declared treed first decides to leave...IT DONT CHANGE THE FACT THAT THE HANDLER PUT THE DOG ON THE TREE AT A LESSER POSITION...Do away with strike points ...too much barking going on and we realy dont have a clue what most are barking at.....GOOD NIGHT

this aint pkc.... your points are wrong and if a dog leaves that has first tree the next dog doesnt move up

Posted by Frank Moore on 03-07-2013 02:08 PM:

I vote yes bc ukc is full of me to dogs most of the time one dog is doing all the work and the rest just packing in there if ukc would do this you would see better dogs at there hunts if my dog has been treed for 4 minutes and a dog comes treed with him at 4:59 why should it get 75 for just me toing

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Posted by K. Singletary on 03-07-2013 02:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Nat Thomas
If you aren't for a countdown on the tree then you aren't used to the quality of dogs that I am. A dog that strikes for 25 and trees for 125 3 times CAN be considered a Coondog (notice i said CAN! there is other factors) A dog that strikes for 100 3 times, covers once after 2 minutes for 75, covers after 3 minutes for 75, and covers after 1 minute 10 seconds for 75 is a me tooing idiot that needs shot. Even If there is a dog on the cast that is a quicker track dog, better locater etc... There is absolutely no excuse for a dog covering after 10-20 seconds. They need to get the hell outta dodge. But who won the cast I just described? The me-too junk. If there was a countdown he would have been beat. It will never happen though... Wouldn't wanna offend anyone (mainly the 75% of owners and handlers that show up at a Ukc hunt with junk....)

That must have been a 2 dog cast you described.

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Posted by Nat Thomas on 03-07-2013 02:22 PM:

It's easy to try and find faults in the things that aren't important when the truth is blatantly obvious.

Posted by Frank Moore on 03-07-2013 02:27 PM:

Nat am 100% with you

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Posted by K. Singletary on 03-07-2013 02:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Nat Thomas
It's easy to try and find faults in the things that aren't important when the truth is blatantly obvious.

So how many real casts have you been on where the same dog got 1st strike and 2nd tree on every drop and the same dog got last strike and 1st tree on every drop. You can paint the picture however you like, but the likely hood of that happening in a real 4 dog cast is very slim.

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-07-2013 02:36 PM:

i find it funny all the me too dogs win so much... i got beat by one a few weeks ago but it doesnt happen often.... i still dont think we should change the rules so yall can win.... your dog aint that good if you are consistantly looseing to them... your dog is either to independant or a very poor strike dog and niether will win many wars... strike accounts for to many points for you not to be concerned about it.... my own dogs are weak on the strike but i still dont feel yhe rules need changed to benefit them... i can either deal with it or get a better one... when i win a hunt it is first trees and accuracy that do it for me.... i have gotten some second trees before but they are few and far between.... cant ever remember being more than a few barks behind the dog that treed first.... a tree count down is what has taken away the tracking ability and caused the complete loners all a fault of a true coon dog....

Posted by tim griffin on 03-07-2013 02:39 PM:

Nat you are right. They don't want the rule to change cause they don't want to put the work into the dog to make him quit doing the bad traits it's easier to have one that me too to your dog that you knew how to train and got more money in because he is good verse one one you wanna lead over the hill and dispose of cause he is a covering idiot

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Posted by K. Singletary on 03-07-2013 02:42 PM:

There is another registry that has a tree count down and 1st tree of 125, they also have a rule to deal with babblers, yet no one will attend their events. They just had a 64 dog hunt where the final 4 split $10,000 and it didn't fill. Based on the attendance of those hunts with the exact rules you guys are proposing why on earth would/should UKC change their rules.

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Posted by tim griffin on 03-07-2013 02:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
i find it funny all the me too dogs win so much... i got beat by one a few weeks ago but it doesnt happen often.... i still dont think we should change the rules so yall can win.... your dog aint that good if you are consistantly looseing to them... your dog is either to independant or a very poor strike dog and niether will win many wars... strike accounts for to many points for you not to be concerned about it.... my own dogs are weak on the strike but i still dont feel yhe rules need changed to benefit them... i can either deal with it or get a better one... when i win a hunt it is first trees and accuracy that do it for me.... i have gotten some second trees before but they are few and far between.... cant ever remember being more than a few barks behind the dog that treed first.... a tree count down is what has taken away the tracking ability and caused the complete loners all a fault of a true coon dog....

my 13 month old female with2 wins towards grand is a high end strike dog but always by her self she's not been beat in a ukc hunt but it still is a bunch of BS to watch a dog cover her for 75 4 minutes after she had been treed even though she getting 225+ on it but the other dog don't deserve 150+ for doing nothing.so tell me what the dog did to deserve 150+ if you don't agree

Posted by patches9452 on 03-07-2013 02:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tim griffin
May you are right. They don't want the rule to change cause they don't want to put the work into the dog to make him quit doing the bad traits it's easier to have one that me too to your dog that you knew how to train and got more money in because he is good verse one one you wanna lead over the hill and dispose of cause he is a covering idiot

out of the last 4 hunts i have made 11 trees looked at 9 coon and had every first tree on them 11 trees.... have not had any 2nd 3rd or 4th trees so tell me what you mean by this... a count down would benefit me but i still think its going the wrong direction to help the dogs

Posted by tim griffin on 03-07-2013 02:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
There is another registry that has a tree count down and 1st tree of 125, they also have a rule to deal with babblers, yet no one will attend their events. They just had a 64 dog hunt where the final 4 split $10,000 and it didn't fill. Based on the attendance of those hunts with the exact rules you guys are proposing why on earth would/should UKC change their rules.

there is another registry with a count down that Hunted 1385 for 40000 so don't tell me it's the count down

Posted by patches9452 on 03-07-2013 02:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tim griffin
my 13 month old female with2 wins towards grand is a high end strike dog but always by her self she's not been beat in a ukc hunt but it still is a bunch of BS to watch a dog cover her for 75 4 minutes after she had been treed even though she getting 225+ on it but the other dog don't deserve 150+ for doing nothing.so tell me what the dog did to deserve 150+ if you don't agree

it got second tree not 4th.... what does it matter when ur kicking tail anyway.... it aint so much the points as to how people will breed dogs that i have a gripe with.... im tired of silent or semi silent hot nosed dogs....they all came to be because of a count down... i want to see dogs who can compete and win if they all had to compete on the same track instead of having to be by themselves because they cant compete.... i dont think anyone can tell me a countdown will not breed more independant dogs

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-07-2013 02:57 PM:

I guess the listing the breed you hunt went right out the window here. Why is it only walker and a few english folks like the countdown???

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Posted by tim griffin on 03-07-2013 03:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
I guess the listing the breed you hunt went right out the window here. Why is it only walker and a few english folks like the countdown???

cause we getter done quick ain't don't need help......lol....lol

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