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I agree completely.
My point is that it doesn't matter what they are doing under that tree as long as the 2 stays broke and they don't leave the tree. Coming off the tree is leaving the tree if they don't go back.
As for the part about minusing a dog for having his nose on the ground, sniffing around, etc, read the Advisor, 2nd Edition, page 35, "LEGISLATING TREE DOG STYLE". That explains how Kellam handles it and is the basis for how I judge this situation.

The "canopy of the tree" isn't very precise but then what constitutes "leaving the tree" isn't particularly precise either.
Again, if they are in a position where handling at the tree is appropriate, then how can you say they aren't at the tree?

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Nose on the ground at the tree doesn't get them minused but nose on the ground under the canopy and opening does if they are not showing the tree. I have seen dogs stand and tree with their nose at the base of the tree but they were showing tree. Different style of treeing. I think it is more of a judgement call based on experience. I hate for a dog to be excused for being lazy just because it is at a tree. But the rules allow for that.

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"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." -
-- Theodore Roosevelt



Brian Teague 252-649-3050

Anyone that can't tell the difference between dog working the ground and one treeing with his head down treeing doesn't need to be carrying the scorecard in the first place.

Nothing will turn cast into a free for all quicker then a judge that doesn't know the rules and isn't smart enough to know that he doesn't know the rules.

With that said I walked along on a cast this weekend while my 13yr handled a dog. She's hunted with me since she was bout 8yrs old, but this was her third cast ever and the first time she hunted against adults. I never realized how much there is to keep track of as a handler.

When you've been at it for a long time keeping track of tree times, knowing everyone else's score, what the other dogs sound like and where they are in the country becomes second nature. When you've just getting started in the hunts in can be very intimidating and some NEVER get the hang of it!

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Being stupid is a combination of trial and error. Mostly error!