UKC Forums - Na$car

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Posted by Rip on 03-03-2013 03:00 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
And again , all quotes , no links to "real" facts ( not opinionated stories) .

I'm done here.

Of course you are, you believe like many WWF fans believe. That's fine but the objective observer can see the favoritism a mile away.

You can look up the Martin/Earnheardt championship yourself. Martin had a carburator plate that was bolted on instead of weilded on. The rule said word for word WEILDED OR BOLTED. NA$CAR took points from him saying he should have weilded it. Earlier in that same year Dales carburator jets were 0.002 over (maybe 0.0002). They said well it was an accident no points. When asked later on, after it was determined that the penalty for Martin decided the points championship that year (he lost by less than the penalty to Dale) they said Dales infraction was early in the year when he didn't know he was running for a championship and Martin knew he was running for a championship so it was worse in their eyes.

That was all mumbo jumbo. They just didn't penalize Dale, had nothing to do with anything else but they had to come up with something. I wasn't following it close back then and had to read articles about it later as I didn't follow post race etc back then.

Besides when I provided you quotes you just said "well that don't count".

It's entertainment more than anything and that's why they have lost so many of the real race fans over the years.

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Posted by Chiggers on 03-03-2013 03:07 AM:

All sports are rigged to some extent , and always have been, People just don't like it when its not rigged for their Favorite.

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Posted by Rip on 03-03-2013 03:11 AM:

Here ya go on the Martin/Dale championship.

"Martin’s Team Manager Steve Hmiel said spacers more than two inches thick have been allowed if they are welded to the manifold, and that Martin’s engine was in violation because its spacer was bolted to the carburetor."

Later on NA$CAR admitted that the actual rule said "bolted OR weilded" but they had always weilded and felt that they violated the spirit of the rule if not the exact wording. Don't know if I can find that one or not, it was a long time ago and I had just started watching NA$CAR then.

http://startnparkblog.com/?p=3038

Here ya go, NA$CAR even later admitted the car was NOT illegal, they just docked him points because they wanted to and in the end Dale got a championship that Martin actually won on the track.

"1990 Pontiac Excitement 400 (February 25, 1990) In the second race of the 1990 season, Mark Martin wins, but the car was found to have an illegal carburetor spacer. NASCAR found the spacer was 2½ inches tall, a half-inch more than allowed. Martin kept the victory, but was fined $40,000 (at record at the time), and was docked 46 points.[52] At season's end, Martin lost the championship by a mere 26 points to Dale Earnhardt,[52] with the penalty representing the deciding margin. Later, it was admitted that the spacer plate was technically not illegal, and did not enhance the car's performance,[53] but actually fell within a "gray area" of the rulebook. NASCAR competition director Dick Beaty even stated that "We don't know if [a taller spacer] is an advantage or not."[54]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASCAR_lore

Here's another one

"It was admitted later that the spacer plate was actually not oversized and not technically illegal. The part was bolted on instead of welded on, thus landing in the "gray area" of NASCAR rules. Dale Earnhardt and his car owner, Richard Childress (being the closest team competitor of Mark Martin at the time) complained to NASCAR and got them to penalize Mark Martin and owner Jack Roush. This has spawned many years of speculation that NASCAR was biased toward the 7-time champion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_N...ston_Cup_Series

I'll have to look hard to find the race that Dale had the jets over bored that same year but got no penalty but that example right there is pretty self explanitory. They fined a guy championship points when his car was LEGAL by their own rules and it cost him a championship and allowed the most "popular" driver to win the championship. If that isn't rigging I don't know what is.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 03-03-2013 03:46 AM:

So , what you're saying is , they took points away from Mark , in february , so they could give Dale the championship in November ?
Again , I ask , does that make sense to you?

And , first , "YOU" said that it was because the spacer was bolted on. NASCAR said it was because it was too tall. Which was it?

And again you put on a quote..

"Martin’s Team Manager Steve Hmiel said spacers more than two inches thick have been allowed if they are welded to the manifold, and that Martin’s engine was in violation because its spacer was bolted to the carburetor."

When I could do the same , only different..

"Martin’s Team Manager Steve Hmiel said spacers that were BLUE INSTEAD OF PINK have been allowed if they are welded to the manifold, and that Martin’s engine was in violation because its spacer was bolted to the carburetor."

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Posted by Rip on 03-03-2013 04:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
So , what you're saying is , they took points away from Mark , in february , so they could give Dale the championship in November ?
Again , I ask , does that make sense to you?

And , first , "YOU" said that it was because the spacer was bolted on. NASCAR said it was because it was too tall. Which was it?

And again you put on a quote..

"Martin’s Team Manager Steve Hmiel said spacers more than two inches thick have been allowed if they are welded to the manifold, and that Martin’s engine was in violation because its spacer was bolted to the carburetor."

When I could do the same , only different..

"Martin’s Team Manager Steve Hmiel said spacers that were BLUE INSTEAD OF PINK have been allowed if they are welded to the manifold, and that Martin’s engine was in violation because its spacer was bolted to the carburetor."

Jackbob, READ. The car was 100% LEGAL it was not oversized it was just bolted on. Their own rules allowed bolted or weilded at that time.

Did you miss the part where NA$CAR ADMITTED IT WAS LEGAL. Thought so because you don't want to see it.

Here are the quotes again along with the links. It was LEGAL.

"1990 Pontiac Excitement 400 (February 25, 1990) In the second race of the 1990 season, Mark Martin wins, but the car was found to have an illegal carburetor spacer. NASCAR found the spacer was 2½ inches tall, a half-inch more than allowed. Martin kept the victory, but was fined $40,000 (at record at the time), and was docked 46 points.[52] At season's end, Martin lost the championship by a mere 26 points to Dale Earnhardt,[52] with the penalty representing the deciding margin. Later, it was admitted that the spacer plate was technically not illegal, and did not enhance the car's performance,[53] but actually fell within a "gray area" of the rulebook. NASCAR competition director Dick Beaty even stated that "We don't know if [a taller spacer] is an advantage or not."[54]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASCAR_lore

"It was admitted later that the spacer plate was actually not oversized and not technically illegal. The part was bolted on instead of welded on, thus landing in the "gray area" of NASCAR rules. Dale Earnhardt and his car owner, Richard Childress (being the closest team competitor of Mark Martin at the time) complained to NASCAR and got them to penalize Mark Martin and owner Jack Roush. This has spawned many years of speculation that NASCAR was biased toward the 7-time champion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_N...ston_Cup_Series

That was 1000% dirty to the core but you don't want to admit it even after NA$CAR themselves said the car was not illegal.

IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL but they took points away from him anyway because their most popular driver complained. How is that not cheating?

I provided you with links showing that even NA$CAR admitted they took championship points from a legal car just because they wanted to and you still think they are on the up and up.

I'll clue you in it hasn't gotten any better, only worse.

As far as it making any sense, Mark made lots and lots of money that year, same reason Tony Stewart still runs, same reason wrestlers still wrestle in the WWF.

I'll take millions of dollars per year to race against a stacked deck cause even against a stacked deck if I have talent I can win a few and still make a heck of a living. That's why they keep racin even though they know the deck is stacked. Where else they gonna go race stock cars on the national level and get paid what they do?

Look I'm not saying that they have a predetermined winner. I'm just saying they intentionally stack the deck and they have proven that over the years with their penalties and no penalties, phantom "debris" cautions and other things. They can't control the outcome but they can shape it and they dang well do. They see it as making a better show, better racing, I see it as meddling and trying to determine the outcome.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 03-03-2013 06:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip

Na$car has always been "rigged" to an extent, it's how they took a championship away from Martin and gave it to Dale Sr ........

They took the points in February.
If they took the championship from Mark , to give it to Dale , they must have known , in February , that the championship was going to come down to the two of them.
Is that what you're trying to say?
They must have the whole season all figured out before it even starts ! LOL

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Posted by corky crowder on 03-03-2013 06:44 AM:

HOW ABOUT THE TIME DALES TEAM WENT OUT ON THE TRACK AND REPLACED TIRES

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Posted by blacktandog on 03-03-2013 12:57 PM:

Tony Stewart shouldn't complain if it's rigged it's been in favor a bunch of times.poor old Kurt bush should be the one complaining He can't do nothing right

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Posted by conhtr1 on 03-03-2013 01:37 PM:

I'm just glad they rigged it for Kurt Busch. Now there's a real winner. I'm sure that was real popular with all the fans.

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Posted by blacktandog on 03-03-2013 08:20 PM:

OK who's going to win! Go Jr.!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by Rip on 03-03-2013 08:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
They took the points in February.
If they took the championship from Mark , to give it to Dale , they must have known , in February , that the championship was going to come down to the two of them.
Is that what you're trying to say?
They must have the whole season all figured out before it even starts ! LOL

Read the text I linked, Dale COMPLAINED to get his nearest competitor docked points EVEN THOUGH THE CAR WAS LEGAL.

So bottom line they took points away from a LEGAL car at the request of their favorite driver. That's what it boils down to and that is just plain out and out corrupt. I am suprised they actually admitted it but they did. Bet the guy that admitted it isn't around any more. That's also why they quit making the rules public, so people can't scrutinize their "calls".

Would you like to see a link to the time they intentionally declared someone else the winner until after the crowd left? How about when they admittedly allowed two illegal cars to run at the request of their sponsors while turning others away for the exact same infraction. The list is very long and there are plenty of links.

I quit watching them after the incident in the 90's when Chevy introduced their new body. They had a stroke of genius and narrowed the top, problem was they tear dropped the rear end too much and lost their grip. The rule said they had to have a 56 or 57 inch spoiler MOUNTED TO A PRODUCTION REAR DECK LID. When they did that they didn't have enough rear grip to be competitive SO NA$CAR/WWF allowed them to build wings on the back of the car, which gave them a HUGE advantage, and it violated their rules. NA$CAR said it was for "safety" due to the lack of downforce for with the production rear deck lid. Of course Chevy won 18 or 19 of the first 20 races before they even put it in the wind tunnel even though you could see the huge advantage running illegal made on the track. When they put it in the wind tunnel Ford asked to chop their top to make it even, NA$CAR said NO the rules say it has to be production. They pointed out the Chevy rear deck lid wasn't production they said it was different that was for safety.......yeah right. Finally they said Ford would introduce their new body style in a few years and they could do whatever they wanted with the top.

So they did and they started taking things from Ford after the first race because they were "too dominant". When asked why they let the new Chevy body style go 20 races before taking it to the wind tunnel and trying to even things and they were doing this to Ford after the first and second races they grinned and said they didn't want to make the same "mistake" twice.

That's when I quit watching it, nothing but corruption.

For the record I am a Mopar guy, Dodge for me so that ain't it, it's just wrong is wrong no matter what. You let Chevy knowingly run illegal and give them a huge advantage for years then start taking stuff from Ford after the first race.

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Posted by blacktandog on 03-03-2013 08:58 PM:

Some years ago a local boy went to race in bush series. He got some sponsors and got enough money together to buy a good car.They went to dei and bought a car that Dale Jr won at Martinsville didn't do anything to it. Took it to track and it failed inspection, when they told inspections who they got it from the inspectors left then came back and let him through.

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Posted by Slowpoke 2012 on 03-05-2013 09:01 AM:

NASCAR

NASCAR sucks nowadays. To regulated and main stream.

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Posted by corky crowder on 03-10-2013 10:48 PM:

ANOTHER SINGLE FILE RACE ONE OF THE MOST BORING YET

Posted by skeets on 03-11-2013 03:15 AM:

i agree corkey

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