UKC Forums - is it real?

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-- is it real? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928300150)

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-07-2013 09:01 PM:

Gonna try to set up a hunt and see bo, he isnt to far away.

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-07-2013 11:18 PM:

Well thats how it looks.

Our gyp isnt in the "elite" group of top dogs but she is dang close, we dont want to settle. Drove halfway across the nation to breed he and she didnt stick, dont want to try it again, may be her last litter.

This is how the crossbreeding came about, to get to the best. If going to one we have in mind pups would be 5/8 blue.

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by CGRADR07 on 02-07-2013 11:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Blacklabel
Gonna try to set up a hunt and see bo, he isnt to far away.

If you want to see Bo's littermate sister go then come on down when she weens these pups and I will take ya.

__________________
Calvin Romans

CH ‘PR’ Mafia’s Double Dose

Posted by pamjohnson on 02-08-2013 12:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Blacklabel
Thanks Tom.

It kills me that people get excited about getting one qualified for ukc world zones, big deal. Most never go to zones, its easier to say you couldnt go, then to say you got beat.

Ive talked with about 4 people who are truely looking to produce TOP hounds, that can compete at the highest levels.

Most wont look outside their yard.

Ok lets say this. If Mojo was blue there are alot of guys who wouldnt breed to him. Same goes for his son Mason who has been running pro hunts and dominating. He isnt that lucky he is a TOP dog.

Lets look outside the box.

ha here is a thought buy them(mojo or mason) for the 4 or 5 thousand u are talking about. lol!

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-08-2013 12:28 AM:

?? I was talking breeding to dogs not buying... pay attention beofre you start bumping your gums

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by 8hawg on 02-08-2013 01:20 AM:

cross breeding

I believe there was something on here one time about "intentional cross breeding". I was thinking it was said the pups could not be registered with UKC if it was an intentional cross breeding. I know PKC accepts cross breeding.

__________________
CHRIS BRINER
ROBINSON, IL

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-08-2013 02:03 AM:

PERFORMANCE FIRST.

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by 8hawg on 02-08-2013 02:19 AM:

If I may ask, what is the name of your female. Have you raised pups from her before or has she had pups before?

__________________
CHRIS BRINER
ROBINSON, IL

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-08-2013 03:13 AM:

heres one let me dig up some more

quote:
Originally posted by keithbluemoon
BBCHA Spring Hunt 2012 King of the hunt for the 2nd year in a row!!!

Bill Hubbard's Dual Grand Sam dog

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-08-2013 01:13 PM:

-------------------------NITECH UCHTMANS BLUE ALBERT II
---------------------GRCH GRNTCH UCHTMANS BLUE ALBERT III
-------------------------UCHTMANS BLUE ROBIN (GR RAMBO X MISTY)
--------LAWRENCES BL DIXIE
-------------------------NT CH SQUAWS LITTLE SCOOTER (UTCHMAN)
---------------------LAWRENCES BL JANE
-------------------------YEARWOODS BL WENDY --UCHTMANS HAWK X GRNT RUSSELS BL MISTY

She is a top hound in anyone's book, and would have easily granded ut if she'd have been taken to town. She's also produced some nice hounds. She has about as much old Uchtman breeding up close as anything out there.

She has been breed 3x with great results from Zeb, when Gary had him, and Rattler, of which produced Sam and some others. The last litter is off Bum, still young with mixed results. Most of her pups were give to youth hunters and never gave a real chance to show what they had, but most had the qualities we look for.

The litter she was out of was outstanding. There were 9 pups total and all would tree their own coon before they were a year old. I was hunting her and ranger by themselves at 9 or 10 months and treeing coons consistently. Dixie hunts hard and fast. Her transmission is broken-she has no reverse. Most of the time when you cut her you either take her off a tree or have to catch her. Top track dog, hard tree dog. Rigs good and can tree lay ups. Super smart and wants to please. pretty accurate, especially when by herself

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by pamjohnson on 02-08-2013 01:40 PM:

utchman

looks like this line is working for u. maybe stick with it. goodluck!

Posted by blueticker on 02-08-2013 04:20 PM:

When I decided to breed Flo I considered all possibilities regardless of bloodlines or location. Phil Davis, a long time friend has owned some hounds that competed at the top with success. He has told me several times that he prefered Bogie over Sadie. We know the success Sadie had. It is proven these hounds can beat the best. Bodacious has reproduced hounds that won at the top level against the best. Rebel has sired pups that won at the top level. I'm not talking breed hunts. This isn't the good ol boys group stroking each other. This decision was made by crossing hounds from the same lines that has proven dominance. The Echo line from the same blood as Flo's ancestors. Keep breeding hounds that haven't made it to the top end and be satisfied going home early.

Until they get there, there just wanta bees with a lot of cheap talk telling how great they are.

__________________
Home Of:
Gr Nt Ch, Ch Natural Smokey River Irene a coondog (Mailes Bob X Nt Ch Utchman Blue Two)
Gr Nt Ch Natural Smokey River Flo UKC Top 20 placing 15th UKC World 2011, top 100 2014 (Rebel x Mailes Lil)

The Hounds I Enjoyed Hunting:
Dual Gr Natural Smokey River Rebel, A buddy of mine
Gr. Nt Natural Blue Echo ( Gr Nt Quail Ck Jimmy X Nt Ch Natural Blue Bell)
Gr Nt Smokey River Chief's Joe (JBS Chief X Gr Nt Jeans Ruby)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Natural Smokey River Lucy (Chief's Joe X Muggins)
And Many More

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-08-2013 04:28 PM:

Good post Sir.

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by J.Woodfin on 02-08-2013 05:31 PM:

If you are looking for drive check out Kixx. Hes throwing pups that have as much drive as anything I have seen in any breed. And that line of dogs have done some winning.

Posted by bluedogs8012 on 02-08-2013 05:47 PM:

Re: Re: Re: is it real?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blacklabel
[B]I agree that alot of breeders are doing just what you said. But I think they are being line/kennel blind and as a whole fall
I agree.

Posted by 8hawg on 02-08-2013 07:37 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: is it real?

quote:
Originally posted by bluedogs8012
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blacklabel
[B]I agree that alot of breeders are doing just what you said. But I think they are being line/kennel blind and as a whole fall
I agree.

I myself find this a little hard to believe. Reason being there are many studs out there that are bred to many different females from many different lines. Public stud services usually takes 2 individuals to make the breeding happen. So, I don't think Breeders are all that kennel blind. I will use myself as an example. Over the last couple of years I have looked for and bought several nice females to breed to a particular Stud. Each one of these females are from mostly different lines. However, in the beginning of this when I seen what I thought to be special results with a particular female, I would then seek out similar bred female in an attempt to get at least as good of results as the original female, but trying to achieve better results. Goal was to achieve results that were "better or at least as good". I breed to a particular Stud, but use and will use nearly use all available lines out there by using a females from those lines. There will also be males from other lines that are and will be bred to females out of the stud I use. If this is consider kennel blind then I guess thats what I am. I have heard this kennel blind crap all the time on here and not sure I understand it. Those who really think kennel blindness is an issue please explain and define in your terms what kennel blindness is.. I do believe folks promote and brag on their particular line of choice. Some tend to promote /brag more than others, ok some do it A LOT. Folks get on here asking for advice, if a line promoter makes his suggestion to his line of choice, so what he is obviously proud enough of what he has (hopefully) to make those suggestions. Please some one explain this kennel blindness, I either have been at this not long enough to recognize it yet, or I am BLIND. I don't want to be blind, at least I don't think I do, so I need to know what blind is. Does BLIND mean that I can't have a personal choice favorite.

__________________
CHRIS BRINER
ROBINSON, IL

Posted by Mad-Dog on 02-08-2013 07:46 PM:

Reproducers??????

If a dog produces 1 dog that makes it to the top 10 or 20 at the World hunt, does that make that line the only one to be worth a darn. Just think how many stud dogs are only one dog away. I put more stock in a bloodline that has been developed over several generations with success. Just because a dog places HIGH in the World Hunt does not mean they will be a reproducer, if you don't know the blood behind the dog you don't know what you are going to get. We have produced 5 hounds that have won BBOA NATIONAL HUNT KING OR QUEEN and to us that is a better record than 1 dog that places in the top 20 of the World Hunt, but what do we know we are just wanta bees..........Tim

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-08-2013 08:12 PM:

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...ind#post4847204

The best definition I can come up with...

Kennel Blindness- one or a group who cannot see the positive others are doing or unable to acknowledge it. Ones who wont use a dog or line from outside their own kennels, whom wasn't produced by them or from their line of dogs, even if it would improve the dogs by leaps and bounds.

Not intended to offend ANYONE, if it has, take a step back and look at your yard.

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by 8hawg on 02-08-2013 08:59 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blacklabel
[B]http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...ind#post4847204

The best definition I can come up with...

"Kennel Blindness- one or a group who cannot see the positive others are doing or unable to acknowledge it. "(THIS PART I CAN SEE), BUT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BREEDING. IMO.

"Ones who wont use a dog or line from outside their own kennels, whom wasn't produced by them or from their line of dogs, even if it would improve the dogs by leaps and bounds."(THIS I DON'T BELIEVE IS DONE AT A LARGE LEVEL) (HOW MANY IN THE PUBLIC STUD BUSINESS TURN DOWN FEMALES FROM OTHER LINES BECAUSE OF THE ABOVE DEFINITION?) (MONEY, TRAVEL AND TIME HAVE MORE TO DO WITH MAKING POTENTIAL LEAPS AND BOUNDS CROSSES) . IMO. REMEMBER JUST BECAUSE THE NAME OF A DOG HAS A KENNEL NAME BEHIND IT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS "THEIR LINE", IT MAY HAVE BEEN INCORPERATED INTO THEIR LINE. KIND OF LIKE WHAT TIM SAID YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT BLOOD IS BEHIND THEM.
(Special note: my ALL capital letters is only being used to differentiate your words from mine, no expression implied)

I talked with a breeder of a specific line one time about getting some of that blood to cross back on the particular Stud I use. I was told he was not interested in crossing his female on my stud of choice. That is fine because I'm the one that was looking to make the cross not him. He had his ideas on breeding and I had mine. Long story short is I didn't stop there and continued to pursue finding a somewhat specific bred female. I found what I was looking for and look forward to producing some nice pups from this. As far as the man that wasn't interested, that was his choice. He is breeding for traits that satisfy him and that he believes in. Maybe he could be consider Kennel blind. But his blindness towards me didn't stop what I was trying to do.

__________________
CHRIS BRINER
ROBINSON, IL

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-08-2013 09:08 PM:

Him letting you breed your female does not change his blindness. It strokes his ego. When infact he would not use a dog that he had produced. Breeding a bitch is not producing. Breeding to a stud is. Owners of females are producers, stud owners are that, stud owners.

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by 8hawg on 02-08-2013 09:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Blacklabel
Him letting you breed your female does not change his blindness. It strokes his ego. When infact he would not use a dog that he had produced. Breeding a bitch is not producing. Breeding to a stud is. Owners of females are producers, stud owners are that, stud owners.

call it what you want but a stud owner and a female owner are both the producers of reproduction. If they weren't we would only have one list, and one wouldn't need the other.

I was wanting his female to breed a particular stud to. He was not interested in making the cross. However I found a similair and perhaps a better female to make the cross with. I was looking to make the cross, not him. I continued until I found what I was looking for. Why did I do this? research, and I believe it will produce top dogs.

__________________
CHRIS BRINER
ROBINSON, IL

Posted by byrd, lance on 02-08-2013 10:28 PM:

Chris

Would you consider using a different Stud dog than the one you are using? Exclude any of his pups in my question. Thanks Lance

Posted by Blacklabel on 02-08-2013 10:41 PM:

Female owners get to pick where they go. So they produce.

Stud owners get what comes to them, or what they can afford to buy.

This is my outlook on it.

__________________
Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

Posted by Jm265 on 02-08-2013 11:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Blacklabel
Female owners get to pick where they go. So they produce.

Stud owners get what comes to them, or what they can afford to buy.

This is my outlook on it.

SOME STUD OWNERS DO PICK WHAT AND WHAT NOT THEY BREED THOSE ARE THE ONES YOU WANT TO TALK TO

Posted by pamjohnson on 02-08-2013 11:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jm265
SOME STUD OWNERS DO PICK WHAT AND WHAT NOT THEY BREED THOSE ARE THE ONES YOU WANT TO TALK TO

not me. if there stud is to good for whatever i wanta pay for the the breedin then this is for sure not the correct path of breeding. i perfer 2 breed the best i can 2 the best i can as well as work with nice,fair,honest people. not people that r 2 good 4 others.

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