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-- Portraying Our Sport (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928299563)

Calvin - I appreciate your energy, but I think you may have missed something... hounds and tree dogs have been on television for a couple years, and are about to return. You may want to do a search for Tailgate Adventures, and see what you missed. We weren't perfect, but this is not a new concept.

NE IOWA B&T MAN - we aired for a full season on Sportsman Channel.

But with that said, what I'm talking about is much bigger than what a show can wipe clean. We can't just air a television show that says a given culture isn't bad, if we don't change that very culture.

There's a person on this very thread, that has countless posts calling the rest of us liars and cheaters... and he's one of us!

We all have to find some common ground, develop a strategy to pursue and promote that common ground, and yes business and organizational sponsorship to help support it. If you want to change public opinion, you have to reach the public. A television show is part of that equation, but we'll need to think even bigger.

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Commercialization has nothing to do with anything. I’m newer to coon hunting and I have met some great people and I have met some horrible people. I have been in two night hunts and I don’t ever plan on going to one again. I knew/know the rules and I got cheated because I didn’t want to start anything when I was new to the game, when my dog had first strike, and another guys dog had first tree/ my dog had second tree. Same guy called first and first. I know how my dog operates and I wanted to make sure he was serious about striking/treeing but someone else called him. Cheating/ stretching the rules isn’t going to get new people into the hunts. Being honest and far and having a good time will get people into the hunts. As far as having a TV program, hopefully it would be in WI, they can come to my house and see my dogs in there pools in the summer and getting feed and watered numerous times in the winter. If anything is getting abused its me and my girlfriend with the time we put into the hounds.
As for the bickering/ fighting between people that has to end. Everyone has their opinion what is a good dog/ best bread. I think I have the best dogs in the world, they tree me coon, they listen to me and I enjoy going hunting with them. They will never win a world hunt nor do I care if they do but they please me and that should be what the sport is about what the hunter wants and can get not what they “need to have” or what “this person has”.

Ask the greyhound folks what the popularity did for them, the doberman folks what it did for them, the shepards, the gamedog pit bulls, I could go on and on. Dogfighting, chicken fights, bull fights, comp coon hunts.....all exploitation of animals for the financial gain of their owners but if you ask everyone of them that participate, all present their legitimate reasons for doing so. We are no different, we have performance programs, superstakes, etc. etc. The one thing that we do have with no promise of financial gain is the HTX and they have struggled to get out of the gate. We don't put emphasis on content, we put emphasis on all grand, stud fees, puppy prices, and our "right" to expect to earn money from our time spent doing what we claim is a "hobby". Our magazines are 80% advertising with 20% content. You better know your enemy as well as you think you know the "sport".

Commercialization is just that. You trivialize the existence of hounds or the pursuit of coon so that the unknowing can understand. You are under the assumption that we need to be heard and understood. No thanks, I prefer they forget all about those of us out here hunting with dogs and stay focused on the gamedog fights, bull fights, and the cajuns cutting their chickens loose. We don't police ourself nowhere near what we need to in order to be on any kind of national stage.

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“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

Do you mean, like they forgot about the Bear Hunters in California???

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Thanks Schmidt!! Did a quick googlization and BAMM!!! There your show is. You've got a nice product there and have every reason to be proud of it. I recommend the rest of go here
http://tailgateadventures.com/web-episodes.html

and watch his webisodes. Of course I'm sure some of you will find a reason to complain about what he's doing, but I've never seen a bunch of coon hunters agree on anything.
David your blog post sounds just about like something that I would have written about myself. I had never heard of this show but I salute anyone who has taken the time and effort to showcase hounds and hunting for the masses.

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Calvin Elliott, Central Alabama.

quote:

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Originally posted by CSnowgren
You know the problems of the stealing, dumping unwanted/unsold dogs at hunts, and daily hustles that go on with dog jockeys and peddlers....... ignore them and paint a picture full of rainbows, unicorns, and butterflies. Don't forget to promote the various trade days to! That would sit with the unknowing majority oh so swell! When you come down off of your intellectual superiority high horse, seek out some help before you overdose on narcissism.

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Calvin Elliott, Central Alabama.

quote:

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Originally posted by CSnowgren
I am sure they were "understood" as well. Get it out there, put it in their face, see where it gets you. You know the problems of the stealing, dumping unwanted/unsold dogs at hunts, and daily hustles that go on with dog jockeys and peddlers....... ignore them and paint a picture full of rainbows, unicorns, and butterflies. Don't forget to promote the various trade days to! That would sit with the unknowing majority oh so swell! When you come down off of your intellectual superiority high horse, seek out some help before you overdose on narcissism.

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Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

The things we post after dealing with politicians...I apologize for being an azzhole. Budget time and the rationalizations being used to try and cut my budget has me in the verbal judo mode. Anyway.....I have seen what you and Dave put out Joe, not a bad thing. Probably the only gig that I have ever seen someone talk about linebreeding.
WildH20......what do you call the performance program and other programs with financial incentive, the fact that our magazines are 80% advertising, the stud dog business, nite hunts, etc. It is all exploitation of animals to put money in the pockets of the owner or to feed their ego. That isn't sport but I guess if Honey Boo Boo can be a successful reality show, the sky is the limit.

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“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

The biggest thing that can be done here and now and forever to protect our sport long term is a constitutional amendment to each states constitution that guarantees the right to hunt and fish. Several states have already passed it, Montana, Kentucky are just couple. There are more. Indiana has such an amendment making it's way through the process right now, ours protects the right to hunt , fish AND farm. Bringing in the farmers was incredibly smart, that gets it passed right there. Amending the state constitution is a very long, drawn out process, they make extremely hard to do for a very good reason. Our amendment here in Indiana has already passed through the House, it is in the Senate this session and is expect to pass easily there. Then next year it goes to a statewide referendum for final passage.
Once you've got a constitution that guarantees the right to hunt, nobody can outlaw hunting. All that stuff that happens in California (and everything starts in Ca and moves out) can't happen with such an amendment. This constitutional amendment is where the effort should be focused if you want to be here for the future generations. Everything else is just talk.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

quote:

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Originally posted by CSnowgren
It is all exploitation of animals to put money in the pockets of the owner or to feed their ego. That isn't sport but I guess if Honey Boo Boo can be a successful reality show, the sky is the limit.

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__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

I think the theory that letting people know about the sport by showing the responsible sportsman and well kept hounds will win them over is flawed. Remember a large and growing number of people in this country have never been exposed to hunting of any kind, they view a dog running free for any reason as abuse, they grew up believing that beef and pork and chicken appear on the planet prepackaged at the supermarket.
My hats off to those of you still willing to fight the good fight for the sake of our sport. Remember a TV viewing audience is an across the board demographic and these networks are well aware of the fallout involved with showing anything where working dogs are used.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Actually John, it is ok to show the working dogs as long as they look like completely worthless buffoons. That American Hogger show proved that much.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Uh yeah.....that's why god put us in charge instead of the animals. That's why he put the animals here, to feed us and put money in our pockets. That is why Indiana is passing that amendment, to protect us against those who believe it is immoral or just plain wrong to get enjoyment and profit from animals.

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“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

quote:

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Originally posted by CSnowgren
Exactly my point. It will be as transparent as swiss cheese. Then you will not only not get what you hope across but will piss off the more intelligent ones and the total amount of good that does us is......zilch. I agree with the amendment approach. If one desires to make an impact or do some good, that is probably where they need to spend their time. I have access to senators and congressmen routinely and you have my mind going. I need coffee.

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__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Relax Jim. It is the debate and the content that interests me. I am out on the tv talk, unless it is focused at/on our own and they can get some useful info from Dave and Joe, I think it is pointless. Do you have a copy of any successful legislation that you could share?

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“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

Here's what I think...

1. Nature has taught us that there is strength and security in numbers.

2. You don't "protect" something by concealing it from the sunlight until it shrivels up.

3. You don't grow an interest by making it a "secret society"

4. You shouldn't condemn corportate sponsorship of something via a web forum provided to us by a corporate entity!

5. Yes exploitation occurs, which is why you are particular with who you partner with... wisely choose those that share your same interests and goals, not simply someone who is willing to fund it.

6. The keys are: education (perhaps through television and other media), organization, and most importantly appropriate conduct to minimize the ammunition.

Just my 5-10 cents!

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

Save our sport

I have several great poat on this thread as well as other about how we need to promote our beloved sport and our hounds. My hope is that we can get OURSELVES and our sport shone in a different light . The problem is though evertime someone makes a suggestion they are a sore loser . I am paator of a small church and have been able to one of our youth interested in our sport . The young man was staying in trouble at school and I made deal with him ,no trouble at school ,would let take young hound and push him in the hunts . Boy was I wrong ! We dont conduct ourselves as men and I decided thats not the place for him . Its Ice hockey in the woods we all run into each other , fight like kids , and cant control our language ( I enjoy hockey jusr not the fighting ) . If TV can clean our sport up portray us all in a better light I WILL BE PRAYING GOD PUT THE RIGHT PEOPLE IN THE RIGHT PLACE.


SORRY FOR ESSAY !!!!

GOOD LUCK AND GOD'S SPEED

I'd like to keep coon hunting as far away from the antis as possible. I really don't think a lot of people get it. "We'll God put em here for me to run em!" That doesn't quite work. People would think and assume you're terrorizing the coon. Trust me, I've worked with two guys who were apart of ALF in 2008. If a dog was chained, or just outside in the heat/cold all hell broke lose. I tried to tell one of em about how respectful I am the the dogs and game and he just couldn't hear it. People that think eating eggs and cheese is rape and someone who gets violently ill because they think their candy had milk in it don't get a rats behind if God put hounds fer you to run and chase coon. He almost had a fit when I drove my truck to work with the dog box. HE DOESN'T GET COLD? HE CAN BREATHE FINE ARE YOU SURE? Unless you have experience in their way of thinking and their judgement then I think its a terrible idea. Just another way for twerps like cute ahring to try and make it famous. It'd be pretty hard to watch.

I joined the Southern Michigan Trappers Association when i was 14. I did it for a couple of reasons. One was I enjoyed trapping and wanted to preserve it. The other was I figured it was the first step to eliminating all animal use.

It is sort of funny, but yesterday morning I was reading the National Trappers Association magazine at breakfast. It had actually made me think if a national coon hound association would benefit coon hunters. I know Game Departments are also working together more, and they attend annual conferences. This fact is the main reason so many Game departments targeted fox and coyote pens.

I wondered if there would be enough support for a national organization. After all, at the state level it seems like people would rather have teeth pulled than to step up and help. Then I wondered maybe just a network may help. I know I have corresponded with coon hunters in Mississippi, Wisconsin, and Indiana on specific issues.

I do feel that not enough is being done. I would give anything to inspire others to stand up and fight, but I have to admit I am frustrated. Yes, I am frustrated, but I haven't given up! And I have no plans to!

Jim,

He likes to argue, and loves to play the devils advocate even more.lol

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

American Hoggers, only thing good on that were the two hotties on horseback, come on "Lizbeth" LOL but seriously we are our worse enemies. We are a microcosm of society. We have thieves, cheaters, violators, and the list goes on. All in the minority. Then we have the ones that just look the other way . They don't care if they trespass cause that's just the way it was done 30 years ago. I watched TGA a few times and found it boring. Not because of the quality or dog workthat was all good. In my opinion you just cannot convey the true feeling of a coonhunt, The smells and sounds of the woods and the night sky. So just treat people like you would want to be treated. Support your different state hunting associations that fight for our hunting rights and take a non-coonhunter hunting. JMHO

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
The biggest thing that can be done here and now and forever to protect our sport long term is a constitutional amendment to each states constitution that guarantees the right to hunt and fish. Several states have already passed it, Montana, Kentucky are just couple. There are more. Indiana has such an amendment making it's way through the process right now, ours protects the right to hunt , fish AND farm. Bringing in the farmers was incredibly smart, that gets it passed right there. Amending the state constitution is a very long, drawn out process, they make extremely hard to do for a very good reason. Our amendment here in Indiana has already passed through the House, it is in the Senate this session and is expect to pass easily there. Then next year it goes to a statewide referendum for final passage.
Once you've got a constitution that guarantees the right to hunt, nobody can outlaw hunting. All that stuff that happens in California (and everything starts in Ca and moves out) can't happen with such an amendment. This constitutional amendment is where the effort should be focused if you want to be here for the future generations. Everything else is just talk.

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__________________
"Some dogs will learn to tree a coon, others were born to!

"Coma Power"
"It's in the blood"
HOME- 219-326-7907
CELL-219-575-0067

Check out NRA-ILA to find out alot of the info Jim is talking about.

quote:

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Originally posted by micooner
American Hoggers, only thing good on that were the two hotties on horseback, come on "Lizbeth" LOL but seriously we are our worse enemies. We are a microcosm of society. We have thieves, cheaters, violators, and the list goes on. All in the minority. Then we have the ones that just look the other way . They don't care if they trespass cause that's just the way it was done 30 years ago. I watched TGA a few times and found it boring. Not because of the quality or dog workthat was all good. In my opinion you just cannot convey the true feeling of a coonhunt, The smells and sounds of the woods and the night sky. So just treat people like you would want to be treated. Support your different state hunting associations that fight for our hunting rights and take a non-coonhunter hunting. JMHO

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I feel compelled to make a couple comments, specific to the last two posts.

First, I need to reiterate that this is much bigger than a TV show. I happen to produce one, and that was part of the context of my original post, but the point I was trying to make was that we all have a part in how our sport is "viewed" by the general public. Everytime we write a post you can impact public opinion. Everytime your hounds cross someone's land, you can impact their opinion... did you apologize for the ruckus you caused, were your dogs skin and bones when they saw them, have you repeatedly been told to stay away, but decided, "screw them, it's a free country"??? What control did you have, and what choices did you make?

Secondly, holy cow did Joe, Shane and I miss the boat on marketting our show. We were on two national television networks, over two years, and many of you have no idea what we're talking about!!! But with that said, we had our flaws and certainly never had the budget to produce what we wanted to produce, but we recevied very little negative feedback. And what we did receive was not from tree-huggers it was from houndsman... you don't shoot enough coon, you shoot too many times at them (I know I'm working on it!) you shoot too many coon, not enough competition hunts, too many competition hunts, too many walkers, not enough you name it, and the list goes on and on.

But I personally never heard anyone say, that we showed the sport in a bad light, or made someone look like a hick. 99% of the time, it was well recevied and appreciated for the positive exposure it did provide. And our future seasons will be no different, but it's only a small step in the right direction.

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David Schmidt
219-614-0654

quote:

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Originally posted by deschmidt27
I feel compelled to make a couple comments, specific to the last two posts.

First, I need to reiterate that this is much bigger than a TV show. I happen to produce one, and that was part of the context of my original post, but the point I was trying to make was that we all have a part in how our sport is "viewed" by the general public. Everytime we write a post you can impact public opinion. Everytime your hounds cross someone's land, you can impact their opinion... did you apologize for the ruckus you caused, were your dogs skin and bones when they saw them, have you repeatedly been told to stay away, but decided, "screw them, it's a free country"??? What control did you have, and what choices did you make?

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