UKC Forums - Do you have a right to listen for your dog???

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-- Do you have a right to listen for your dog??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928293263)

Posted by jculler8 on 01-09-2013 04:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jim W.
Lets tell the whole truth and not part of the story. 1st the other 3 cast memebers agreed to call time out because the guide said we had run out of woods to hunt. 2nd your dog was never heard. He was found at your truck thanks to your garmin not due to the fact that he was treeing.

the whole point is that less than 30 min was spent in the woods. we walked 400 yards to your dogs, that were slick and circled. you had no idea where my dog was, so ya'll agreed to call timeout without calling a vote, AT THE TREE.

its a shame you had a guide that could only spend 20 minutes in a woods and score ONE measly tree if that's REALLY THE TRUTH of the story.

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Posted by Jim W. on 01-09-2013 05:25 AM:

The guide had plenty enough woods to score 700 plus points Sat. night. but that would be hard for you to do with your dog not wanting to leave the truck. We pulled our dogs off the tree as you requested and let you listen. Your dog was not barking. We then called time out to move. As we walked to retrive your "treed dog", while you followed your garmin to get to, your dog was still not barking. Per your own post we were 400 yards from the truck. We all should have heard a "treed dog with a coon" barking and you shouldnt have needed your garmin to know where your dog was.

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Posted by jculler8 on 01-09-2013 05:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jim W.
The guide had plenty enough woods to score 700 plus points Sat. night. but that would be hard for you to do with your dog not wanting to leave the truck. We pulled our dogs off the tree as you requested and let you listen. Your dog was not barking. We then called time out to move. As we walked to retrive your "treed dog", while you followed your garmin to get to, your dog was still not barking. Per your own post we were 400 yards from the truck. We all should have heard a "treed dog with a coon" barking and you shouldnt have needed your garmin to know where your dog was.

No way man. Timeout was called way before anyone got to listen for a dog AT THE TREE. You guys were talking about it before we even got done scoring it. I heard you all. Nobody had a clue where my dog was. Just so be it she may have stopped at the truck after she hunted the edge out of the field we turned loose near, behind the cast... Per the 2 or 3 'other' spectators at the truck. Fact is nobody knew what my dog was doing at the tree and ya'll were scared she was off with a coon. You wanted to get outta there after that slick, 3-1 voted to circle before my dog had a chance to hunt the woods out and get off and tree a coon, she ain't no packing fool. I have no doubt of 700+ at all, but you gotta have a dog that trees real live coon, not empties to score 700... I did see the woods on Birdseye on the way in while in the truck. It wasn't a one drop and done kinda spot. You guys should have turned loose again no matter where my dog was, so she not be in trouble (i hope not in 20 min, the drive through the woods was 5 min in. It was a big, nice spot that could've been hunted out. I'm pretty sure that UKC also 'encourages' us to try and do so if at all possible. That is the purpose of the question posed at the beginning of the thread. This was a way for me to see if you got on here and read the forum, because I am most certain, the topic of recasting, voting on situations that cannot be voted on, and spectators shining have been top threads on here and you most likely have read them. If not here, bloodlines, or by golly, the back of the card. So why 'bend' them?

Finally, getting a few answers. Thanks.

Posted by Jason Gillespie on 01-09-2013 12:45 PM:

Thats bull

They should have recut there dogs should have walked there min and then listened for your dog if it wasent herd and the woods was big enough they should have cut again! Sounds like tehy had beagles and you had a coondawg,They didnt want your dog to get by itself!

Some judges think they have won the cast before the times up! Wouldnt have done that to me!Next time place ? on card and tell the MOH when you get back what happen alot of guys are scared to say anything so its guys like that that gets wins on dogs that couldnt tree acoon to save there life!

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Posted by ssgied on 01-09-2013 01:04 PM:

I may be reading the advisor wrong, but it doesn't make sense to call time out when a dog is out hunting. Would you not go to where you last heard the dog or where you cut them and listen. If you have a dog that is deep and lonley like every one seems to want you could very easily get the shaft, by a couple close hunting dogs and a few cast members that think they can call time out, just because their dog has already made a tree. Don't make good sense to me.

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 01-09-2013 02:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
lol what do you want them to do if your out hunting.the judge gave
you a reason we cant help it if its not louder than pop corn you
just left the truck.why didnt you strike it there?lol

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Posted by JiM on 01-09-2013 02:58 PM:

Dang Coomer, where you been? Are you just saving yourself for the good ones?

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Posted by JiM on 01-09-2013 03:07 PM:

We all know how it works in the real world. Now if dog D had been struck in, the rules and the Advisor make in very clear that a very good reason involving some sort of legit danger is required to call time out. You CANNOT call time when a dog is carrying strike points just to find new hunting ground. The Advisor makes that clear.
In this example, dog D was not struck, was not on the card. And that means with a majority vote to call time, dog D's handler is screwed. Not a thing he can do.
Yes, they should have given him a chance to listen for his dog before they ever voted. Yes, it must be put to a cast vote before time can be called. But in the real world, if dog D is not on the card and 3 vote to call time, not a thing you can do about it.

All the above refers to hypothetical situations, I don't nothing about this specific situation and have no opinion on that.

Posted by K. Singletary on 01-09-2013 03:19 PM:

Re: Thats bull

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Gillespie
They should have recut there dogs should have walked there min and then listened for your dog if it wasent herd and the woods was big enough they should have cut again! Sounds like tehy had beagles and you had a coondawg,They didnt want your dog to get by itself!

Some judges think they have won the cast before the times up! Wouldnt have done that to me!Next time place ? on card and tell the MOH when you get back what happen alot of guys are scared to say anything so its guys like that that gets wins on dogs that couldnt tree acoon to save there life!

Maybe its guys that think you walk a minute in UKC that need to brush up on things.

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Posted by H. L. Meyer on 01-09-2013 03:31 PM:

JiM

YOU still the "MAN"............. Tell it like it IS........... Have not hunted in a hunt after the WORLD in 2004. To much b***s for me.

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Posted by Jim W. on 01-09-2013 03:42 PM:

The dog was never struck . We did give a chance to listen and we never heard the dog . The dog was all alone . ALONE right at the truck. IM done with this cast , we could go around and around on this all week but that wont get use anywhere . WISH all you guys a good year and good hunting

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Posted by wakenda creek b on 01-09-2013 04:38 PM:

Do what alot of the guys do and strike them even if you dont hear them.lol

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Posted by ssgied on 01-09-2013 05:41 PM:

If dogs A,B,and C make a tree in the first 10 mins. of the hunt and dog D is not with them for whatever reason, but continues to hunt on his own, struck or not, why should he be penalized by calling timeout? I understand that the majority rules, I just don't think it should even come to a vote, as I see no good reason to call timeout. If the woods are so small that 10 mins. of hunting results in a move for danger to the dogs, then the cast should have never been there. Maybe I just don't understand the logic in calling time out with a dog still out hunting.

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 01-09-2013 05:54 PM:

idk dont you have that vote before you cast them?

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Posted by JiM on 01-09-2013 06:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssgied
If dogs A,B,and C make a tree in the first 10 mins. of the hunt and dog D is not with them for whatever reason, but continues to hunt on his own, struck or not, why should he be penalized by calling timeout? I understand that the majority rules, I just don't think it should even come to a vote, as I see no good reason to call timeout. If the woods are so small that 10 mins. of hunting results in a move for danger to the dogs, then the cast should have never been there. Maybe I just don't understand the logic in calling time out with a dog still out hunting.

That purty much somes it up right there and I agree 100% BUT....in the real world, all that goes right out the window.

Posted by john Duemmer on 01-09-2013 07:04 PM:

The reality depends on where you are hunting. Timeouts to move are a common thing in my area, we hunt alot of 10-20 acre patches of woods and recasting dogs often leads to them busting out and crossing roads or getting out of pocket and ending up on ground where a guide might not have permission. Its also much easier to go back with a decent scorecard and all 4 dogs if you tree a quick one and move. I dont see how that penalizes a dog that hasnt been struck, By the time 3 dogs run a track, get handled, and the tree gets shined that 4th dog has been off the hook for a half hour so hes either out of pocket or not gettin anything done in that spot anyway. If dog D is mine im all for rounding them up and movin.

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Posted by walkerdog1 on 01-09-2013 08:06 PM:

If you was hunting on buckets that's probley why they wanted to move so quick

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Posted by ssgied on 01-09-2013 10:15 PM:

Jim,and John, I am not trying to stir the pot, I really enjoy this post. Here is what happened to me on several ocasions. Reg. cast three dogs strike and tree, my dog that I spent alot of time hunting, is not at the tree, nor has he struck. Score the tree minus, with possum. After a three to one vote, timeout is called. About that time my dog strikes at around 5ooyds. in, runs another three or four hundred and trees, I go in a run trying to beat the hour, get to the tree, he has a coon. Needless to say the hour gets me. After saying this, my question, is calling timeout in this situation legal by the rules or are we bending the rules just a little, trying to go score another one really quickly.

Posted by jculler8 on 01-09-2013 10:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssgied
If dogs A,B,and C make a tree in the first 10 mins. of the hunt and dog D is not with them for whatever reason, but continues to hunt on his own, struck or not, why should he be penalized by calling timeout? I understand that the majority rules, I just don't think it should even come to a vote, as I see no good reason to call timeout. If the woods are so small that 10 mins. of hunting results in a move for danger to the dogs, then the cast should have never been there. Maybe I just don't understand the logic in calling time out with a dog still out hunting.

True, that's exactly the point I wanted to make. So why when the rules are clarified by bloodlines, the advisor, or message board and we all go to the woods and change/bend them?

Why encourage casts to recast in the first place if it isn't going to be enforced? Why do we waste the ink to*?

To* in reference to one of the several grammar errors in the advisor I paid $15 for.

Posted by john Duemmer on 01-09-2013 10:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssgied
Jim,and John, I am not trying to stir the pot, I really enjoy this post. Here is what happened to me on several ocasions. Reg. cast three dogs strike and tree, my dog that I spent alot of time hunting, is not at the tree, nor has he struck. Score the tree minus, with possum. After a three to one vote, timeout is called. About that time my dog strikes at around 5ooyds. in, runs another three or four hundred and trees, I go in a run trying to beat the hour, get to the tree, he has a coon. Needless to say the hour gets me. After saying this, my question, is calling timeout in this situation legal by the rules or are we bending the rules just a little, trying to go score another one really quickly.

Forsure its bending the rules, i said earlier its one of the most abused rules on the card, but if the guide says we need to move and a majority of the cast vote to call time there isnt a thing you can do about it. When you see those huge scores of 1000+ and bigger you can bet there were a bunch of timeouts called.

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Posted by Doug Bowers on 01-09-2013 10:48 PM:

#1 Dog d was never heard up to tree being scored.
# 2 Time can be call to move if it takes, 15min.
Now he has one hr. to get dog or be scratch.

Dog d never open .if he had struck , then you listen for that dog.

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Posted by MikeR on 01-09-2013 11:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by walkerdog1
If you was hunting on buckets that's probley why they wanted to move so quick

Exactly. Run off buckets, score it and move on. That's what comp. hunts have become.

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Posted by walkerdog1 on 01-09-2013 11:22 PM:

Sad but true maybe ukc should not allow buckets or have a new titel GBC GRAND BUCKET CHAMPION lol

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Posted by Prime Time 29 on 01-09-2013 11:28 PM:

Just wondering who won the cast?

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Posted by roughcreekhound on 01-09-2013 11:52 PM:

Time out or not

If you cant call time out because dog d is still out then I have a question for you. Why is it there is a rule stating after timeout is called you have 1 hour to catch your dog or your scratched? Thats not word for word but ive seen time out called in order to catch a dog and the one hour get them before they are handled.

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