UKC Forums - Civil Liberty gone awry

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Posted by SoShadow on 12-18-2012 08:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Matt McKinney
Why wouldnt senators and representatives offer their thoughts and prayers? Thats the right thing to do. I dont know a single person involved in the tradegy, but I offered my thoughts and prayers.... But until there is an issue and he starts bringing up gun bans, (which is not gonna happen) MAYBE an assault weapon bans, but again, that has been a law until 2010, so not sure why everyone is acting like that would be the end of the world, why get so paranoid and worked up about it...I heard people say the 2nd admendment was to protect us against the government, and who wants to fight the gov with a rifle, or a shotgun.TRUE, however, I wouldnt want to fight the gov with an AR 15 or an AK 47 with a 30 round clip, the government has tanks and apachie helicopters, fighter jets, ect. If a war broke out between the civilians and the gov, it dont matter what kind of guns the public has, the gov has bigger and better guns. Its not like the old days when the only thing available is a black powder muzzle loader and it was an even playing field. Civilians will not be able to defeat the government if all hell breaks loose, thats just the sad facts.

so your saying we just have to do what we're told and keep our mouths shut? it's not that the general population could defeat the u.s. military with personal firearms. it's that i don't believe that our military would fight against a general uprising. if however the general public is unarmed then they could be controlled without military force

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Jay Williams

Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-18-2012 08:59 PM:

Is that what my post said ? If someone punches me in the face, Im punching them back, no matter how big or bada$$ they are. So NO thats not what I said...Im saying BE REALISTIC and stop being paranoid..I read all the time they will have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands....Stop being so dramatic and paranoid is all im saying. Its no wonder the anti's think us gun owners (Im a gun owner too) are crazy man. We give them reason to think that..Good reason too. People say, well knifes, cars,ball bats kill people too...WEAK WEAK arguement. We need to get a better arguement, stop acting foolish, and come up with a real solution rather than naming off anything that can kill someone, cause we all know a AK with a 30 round mag is more deadly that a knife, car, or bat, and I dont see no one driving cars through the halls of schools mowing people down. So a good solid arguement needs to be presented on what to do, and the knife arguement, baseball bat arguement, car arguement isnt gonna cut it. Its no wonder no one can get along. We sound just as crazy to the anti's as they sound crazy to us. I am a hunter, and I WILL protect myself and my family at ALL cost, but I do find myself asking myself, are "civilian" models of military weapons necessary for a sportsman or a protector ? I will feel no more safe if I have an AK 47 in my house than I do now with my .38...My .38 will kill a man just as dead as an AK will....Example of a gun owner sounding crazy:

I was listening to the radio yesterday and some clearly mentally deranged gun loving women ranting that she needs her assault weapons because there are Satanic worshipers and Russian Soldiers in the woods near her home. Does she sound sane to you? I bet she thinks she is sane. And she is a member of the NRA, so WE give the anti's the fuel they need for idiotic rants like the one I just posted.

quote:
Originally posted by SoShadow
so your saying we just have to do what we're told and keep our mouths shut? it's not that the general population could defeat the u.s. military with personal firearms. it's that i don't believe that our military would fight against a general uprising. if however the general public is unarmed then they could be controlled without military force

Posted by conhtr1 on 12-19-2012 12:24 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Matt McKinney
Why wouldnt senators and representatives offer their thoughts and prayers? Thats the right thing to do. I dont know a single person involved in the tradegy, but I offered my thoughts and prayers.... But until there is an issue and he starts bringing up gun bans, (which is not gonna happen) MAYBE an assault weapon bans, but again, that has been a law until 2010, so not sure why everyone is acting like that would be the end of the world, why get so paranoid and worked up about it...I heard people say the 2nd admendment was to protect us against the government, and who wants to fight the gov with a rifle, or a shotgun.TRUE, however, I wouldnt want to fight the gov with an AR 15 or an AK 47 with a 30 round clip, the government has tanks and apachie helicopters, fighter jets, ect. If a war broke out between the civilians and the gov, it dont matter what kind of guns the public has, the gov has bigger and better guns. Its not like the old days when the only thing available is a black powder muzzle loader and it was an even playing field. Civilians will not be able to defeat the government if all hell breaks loose, thats just the sad facts.

Would you say the military has done a good, fast, effective job handling the armed public in Afghanistan?
As for the so called assault weapon ban, how much slower would the shooter have been with 5 shot magazines in a hunting rifle? maybe 1 minute max?
As for the politicians, they pray for the families of children killed with guns but support abortion. I find that very hypocritical.

Posted by GA DAWG on 12-19-2012 12:46 AM:

First thing Im gonna do if they take our guns is. Find somebody that voted for Obama and punch em right smack in the nose. What they gonna do? Shoot me?

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Posted by trackdriver on 12-19-2012 01:27 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
First thing Im gonna do if they take our guns is. Find somebody that voted for Obama and punch em right smack in the nose. What they gonna do? Shoot me?

LOL!! You're crazy!!

Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-19-2012 01:29 AM:

Did you vote romney I assume? You know he banned assault weapons in Massachusetts don't ya? This isn't a left wing liberal thing like so many of you seem to think.

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
First thing Im gonna do if they take our guns is. Find somebody that voted for Obama and punch em right smack in the nose. What they gonna do? Shoot me?

Posted by GA DAWG on 12-19-2012 01:32 AM:

Waaaaaaaaa!!!!

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-19-2012 04:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Waaaaaaaaa!!!!

Waaaa? Nice comeback ,it sucks when you have to face the facts huh.. Blame Obama all you want and blame people that voted for him too, but the man you voted for had tighter gun laws then obama, guns restrictions have been basically zilch for the last 4 yrs....Waaa must be what you answer with , when you cant come up with an inteligent comeback.

Posted by GA DAWG on 12-19-2012 10:09 PM:

LoL

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Posted by plottpower on 12-20-2012 12:51 PM:

Matt, he might not be able to debate you but I can.

A gun is inanimate object, as is a car, knife, and tobacco. Do you agree? Do the research and see which of those kill more people a year than a gun. But lets break it down even more than. Of the crimes committed with a gun, its what less than 2% of those crimes are committed with an AR style gun. Its hard for me to listen to our government mourn the death of people when abortion is legal.

Of course Obama will take the blame, just like Bush, he is the leader. Romney wasnt the answer either, but due to politics he changed his stance on gun control. You know as well as I do that the political parties will not let a tragic incident go to waste. The dems want gun control and this is the perfect time to get it. Emotions are high right now, and logic seems to be on the low side.

As far as taking up arms against our govt goes, theres how many people in the Armed Forces, just over a million i believe. And what just under a million in the reserves. And how many gun owners in America, what around 100 million. Yes the govt may have big guns, but we as gun owners actually stand a chance by shear numbers alone.

You keep talking about gun owners being paranoid. Im not paranoid at all, I dont want a corrupt govt running my life. An unarmed society is a lot easier to control.

__________________
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Posted by conhtr1 on 12-20-2012 01:10 PM:

Connecticut Gov. Dan Malloy (D)

"Connecticut has a pretty aggressive law — probably of the 50 states, I think we’re ranked fourth most aggressive in trying to limit access to these kinds of weapons,” Malloy said.

Connecticut is one of just a few states with at least a partial ban on assault weapons.

Posted by conhtr1 on 12-20-2012 01:12 PM:

Oh I forgot....truly, here is source. Washington post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ions-strictest/

Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-20-2012 01:46 PM:

I understand what your saying. But we can't keep having mass murders every month then say guns don't kill people. Yes they do. A gun maybe an object. But pick that object up squeeze the trigger and it kills. So does tobacco. I'm just saying something needs done. And If Its banning a dang ar then so be it. I have no reason to believe someone is gonna knock on my door wanting to take my pistol and rifle. Hell if there is an assault ban. They won't take the ones off the street that are already on it anyways. Let me Ask me this. If a kid comes across a gun don't know what it is picks it up and kills themselves. Did the gun kill them or did they kill them self. If they choke to death did food kill them or did they kill them self. A tree is an object too if Your chainsawing and a tree falls on you did the tree kill you or did you kill yourself. You get my drift. The guns don't kill people argument is lame. More people are killed by guns in the USA than anywhere else in the world. And all I'm saying is with all the senseless tradegy that happens we as gun owners look crazy by saying the answer is more guns. Don't forget I'm a gun owner and a hunter too. But I'm also a person with compassion and understanding of why people would be pushing for not a gun ban. But a ban on certain weapons. I totally disagree with a gun ban. Assault ban I could take or leave honestly. I'm not saying they should do it. I'm saying I don't think there's a reason to have that stuff so I don't care if they do do it. I won't go to bed at night feeling any different one way or the other bud.

quote:
Originally posted by plottpower
Matt, he might not be able to debate you but I can.

A gun is inani mate object, as is a car, knife, and tobacco. Do you agree? Do the research and see which of those kill more people a year than a gun. But lets break it down even more than. Of the crimes committed with a gun, its what less than 2% of those crimes are committed with an AR style gun. Its hard for me to listen to our government mourn the death of people when abortion is legal.

Of course Obama will take the blame, just like Bush, he is the leader. Romney wasnt the answer eitonjh er, but due to politics he changed his stance on gun control. You know as well as I do that the political parties will not let a tragic incident go to waste. The dems want gun control and this is the perfect time to get it. Emotions are high right now, and logic seems to be on the low side.

As far as taking up arms against our govt goes, theres how many people in the Armed Forces, just over a million i believe. And what just under a million in the reserves. And how many gun owners in America, what around 100 million. Yes the govt may have big guns, but we as gun owners actually stand a chance by shear numbers alone.

You keep talking about gun owners being paranoid. Im not paranoid at all, I dont want a corrupt govt running my life. An unarmed society is a lot easier to control.

Posted by plottpower on 12-20-2012 02:15 PM:

Actually Matt I dont get your drift, your arguement makes no sense. What your saying is because you can take it or leave it so everyone else should feel that way. Wrong, if you dont want an AR dont buy one. Thats what makes America great, we are the land of the free.

Real Time Estimate
Top 7 Causes of Death
Since 1 Jan, 2012

Cause, Annually, To Date

Tobacco: 529,000 513,184

Medical Errors: 195,000 189,170

Alcohol Abuse: 107,400 104,189

Vehicle Accidents: 42,000 40,744

Suicide: 29,350 28,473

Drug Abuse: 25,500 24,738

Firearm Homicide: 10,828 10,504
http://www.theegglestongroup.com/wr...stats/index.php

Instead of making any type of gun illegal, why dont we look into mental health, and then enforce the gun laws we have on the books now. As everything else goes the fed govt is out of control and over stepping their bounds. This is another state issue. I dont need a reason to own an AR, they are just like every other gun. And who says once they get the ball rolling with AR's it may not stop. We shouldnt be willing to give up any gun rights just bc we dont own one.

__________________
Matt Wohlford
765-210-8719
Herrell Bred Plotts

Posted by Rory Cowles on 12-20-2012 02:24 PM:

Wonder why the parent waited til the kid was 20 to try and have him committed when they say he was sick his whole life wonder why they didn't do it when he was younger and at a more managble age?? Every one of these cases are done by someone thats sick (no matter how they arm there self) recon they just woke up that day and decided to do this stuff??? Recon there was signs way in advance??? Recon some people just don't want to admit that there friend or family member just needs help??? Think if we start here alot of things will start fixing it's self no matter what the laws and government says..

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Posted by GA DAWG on 12-20-2012 02:33 PM:

Im going crazy I think. Defiantly not one of Obamas sheeple like some of yall are. Lots of stuff don't add up in this shooting to me. Only other time I thought set up was the movie shooting. Could they be ties together? Well now I've read they could

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Posted by Rory Cowles on 12-20-2012 02:34 PM:

The goverment ( Rep/Dem) spends million's of dollars each year to house criminals and people and family's that needs real help (unstable health) can't get it this is the problem!!!

Posted by Jm265 on 12-20-2012 02:44 PM:

I HOPE THEY PUT SOME OF THE MONEY THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY FROM SS AND PUT IT IN A MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAM THAT RONALD REGAN GUTTED

Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-20-2012 08:04 PM:

AGREE!!!!! Then poor ole GA DAWG maybe able to get some help..LOL

quote:
Originally posted by Jm265
I HOPE THEY PUT SOME OF THE MONEY THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY FROM SS AND PUT IT IN A MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAM THAT RONALD REGAN GUTTED

Posted by SoShadow on 12-20-2012 08:38 PM:

all the FEMA "camps" that are scattered around the country will probably be used as "mental health facilities" for all those people that believe that president obama would not confiscate every civilian gun if he could!

__________________
Southern Shadow Blueticks
Jay Williams

Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-20-2012 09:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SoShadow
all the FEMA "camps" that are scattered around the country will probably be used as "mental health facilities" for all those people that believe that president obama would not confiscate every civilian gun if he could!

Paraniod. No basis statement. Yes Obama is gonna come to your house, with his 2 teenage daughters, and personally take every gun you have..LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by GA DAWG on 12-20-2012 10:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Matt McKinney
AGREE!!!!! Then poor ole GA DAWG maybe able to get some help..LOL

I need some lol. Yall see me leading a blue Dawg. You'll know its over with for me.

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Posted by Matt McKinney on 12-20-2012 11:33 PM:

Lol. Me and you don't agree on some things but I like ya..I do agree with you on the blue dogs though Lmao.

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
I need some lol. Yall see me leading a blue Dawg. You'll know its over with for me.

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