UKC Forums - Who you think he voted for?

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Posted by jason2579 on 11-20-2012 02:56 PM:

Ok jack so it's wrong for a union if these people choose to be a part of union to have a said body of people go in and work out terms for their wages and benefits. It's ok for one guy to negoitiate his pay but not ok for a group of people to do the same. This is interesting stuff.

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Posted by jason2579 on 11-20-2012 03:03 PM:

OK another ? In every ones opinion reguardless of what party you belong to or if your independent. Who do think would kick start the economy Quicker! Now these are not actually numbers. Now for strong economy people got be making more money to spend more money. So let's say 50,000 people making more million a year to spend or 6 million working class people with more take home pay to spend.

Posted by jackbob42 on 11-20-2012 05:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jason2579
Ok jack so it's wrong for a union if these people choose to be a part of union to have a said body of people go in and work out terms for their wages and benefits. It's ok for one guy to negoitiate his pay but not ok for a group of people to do the same. This is interesting stuff.

I'm not saying it's wrong for a person to allow union reps to negotiate for them. I say that's up to them.
I don't believe it is my right to say who you have negotiate for you. AND you shouldn't have a say in who negotiates for me.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 11-20-2012 05:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jason2579
OK another ? In every ones opinion reguardless of what party you belong to or if your independent. Who do think would kick start the economy Quicker! Now these are not actually numbers. Now for strong economy people got be making more money to spend more money. So let's say 50,000 people making more million a year to spend or 6 million working class people with more take home pay to spend.

It depends.....
Who's creating the jobs for those 6 million working class people?

If it's the government , where is that money coming from? ( Hint : the taxpayers ) Therefore , those already working and paying taxes are asked to pay more taxes to keep those people working.

It it's those 50,000 millionaires starting up and running companies putting those people to work , you tell me which is better.......

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Posted by rance56 on 11-20-2012 06:07 PM:

just curious jason, so what are you proposing to be done?

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Posted by solo sammy on 11-20-2012 07:16 PM:

hey joe you are sounding alot like john mc cain,you are sounding a little bitter about your lost ok bro.

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-20-2012 09:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jason2579
OK another ? In every ones opinion reguardless of what party you belong to or if your independent. Who do think would kick start the economy Quicker!

Jason,

One of the most powerful drivers of a healthy economy is a healthy governmental budget. I urge you to take a look at http://taxfoundation.org.. I don't have a strong enough grasp of Macro Economic any more (been a few years since that class in college) to do the full analysis.

Obama Tax Plan
Conclusion

Tax Foundation economists measured the economic and distributional effects of all of President Obama’s tax proposals: his plan to sunset the Bush-era tax rates for high-income taxpayers; his corporate tax plan; and, the tax changes contained in the Affordable Care Act beginning in 2013. We found that these proposals would lower economic growth while substantially lowering workers’ wages and incomes. Ultimately, these tax plans would be very harmful for the nation’s long-term economic outlook.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/si...obamas-tax-plan

Romney Tax Plan
Conclusion

While the debate over tax reform has been consumed with distributional issues, the economy continues to limp along in the worst recovery since the Great Depression. To be sure, this economy faces headwinds that even an ideal tax code will not address, but pro-growth tax reform can provide substantial benefits. Our results indicate that by lowering tax rates on investment and labor, the Romney tax plan would grow the economy by 7.4 percent, the capital stock by almost 19 percent, wages by almost 5 percent, and hours worked by 3 percent. The benefits would be widely enjoyed, as every income group would experience at least a 7 percent increase in after-tax income. It would benefit the federal budget as well, in that fully 60 percent of the static revenue loss from Romney’s plan would be recovered from taxing a larger economy.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/si...omneys-tax-plan

I would encrouage everyone who has a real interest in the difference to look at each page, compare how the economists came to the conclusions that they did. I'm sure that the left can poke holes in the analysis, and I'm sure that the Right can do the same.

But for me, the comparison of the two plans is complete, the same model is applied to both of them, and the comparison makes sense to me.

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Posted by zimmy on 11-20-2012 10:14 PM:

Purely speculation about both.I say flat tax ,then all cards are on the table.
I watched your video and while that fellow should be dealt with ,a drop in the bucket.Look what big banks got away with.
The list is endless on who can get whatever they can.
And you make it look like he voted for Obama,I would say he is not even a registered to vote.
So don't make it a democrat or republican issue, when it's just theft .Be real ,I lost all respect for Judge Judy to sit there and not chew him up and spit him out.

Z

Posted by jason2579 on 11-21-2012 03:57 AM:

Jack to answer ? i will use my company example for you. Recent contract the company was able to save 10 million dollars. Less than 1/10 of that in 2 years has been reinvested into the company and most of it on safety issues since OSHA cracked them. But the 3 major players in the contract negoiations that work for the company as upper management all received 2 million dollar bonus. Not saying all but most companies practice business this way.

Rance i'm not sure what you want me to purpose what i would do about what? If your your talking welfare reform or immgraitions reform my views and opinions would be to far extreme for liberals or conservatives so best i keep my opinions to myself on a public forum.

Joe your posts on Obama Plan and Romneys plan have been picked threw a thousand times. By both sides. Neither one can come up with a solution. But while were on the subject. History has shown that a strong working class blue collar class however you want to put it that brings home more of his gross income this country economy does very well. All businesses do very well. Plain and simple. Working class out numbers the rich and in history pass and a proven fact working class out spend the rich. When working class wages don't keep up with the cost of living we don't spend cause we got safe to live. Prove in it look at most hunt numbers now a days to hunt numbers in years past a lot people can't barely make a local hunt anymore let alone one hundreds of miles away see it posted on here all the time. You guys can sit here and shoot spit balls back and forth all day. Rance i guess if your asking my opinion on what i would do i would do as ceo's Gm's here's my opinion. If i owned the business i guess i would set a cap based on my company's net income yet they will make a good salary but not so much that i can't reinvest in the company or try to expand my business. Explain to them that their is no bonuses only raises and only way they get a raise is if the company as whole can raise all wages from the CEO to the guy cleaning his office. And every 3 or 4 years will negotiate wages for everyone. If i have to cut wages i'm cutting everyones not just the ones on the shop floor if theirs a union fine layoffs till business is back up. Layoffs are apart of life and both sides know this it's nothing new. With that being said ( oh and anyone working for me better be a American born and made here legally JACK!!!!) my theory is businesses should do good as whole or do bad as whole. If the bottom needs to be cut the top is going to get cut as well. Now i stated my peace i'll leave all of you to spit ball with each other all you want done on the subject loading up and trying some late night hunting.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-21-2012 11:34 AM:

Jason,

I'm not sure if you are 100% aware that you are making the conservative point for them.

The wealthy will most likely remain wealthy and will protect wealth when investments remain uncertain. Being "rich" is nothing to be ashamed of, and should not be punished. Now, your comment about the working middle class being at the heart of a strong economy are right on the mark.

Raising taxes on upper income levels causes them to hunker down and not invest. History proves that when they do this, it affects middle and lower income workers. If middle income workers (your blue collar workers) also feel threatened, or are not getting at least "cost of living" increases, now the economy really starts to suffer.

You choose to dismiss the Tax Foundation panel of non-partisan economists because "both sides" have said that the other's plan will not work. Well I can tell you this much....I know of people who are not going to invest, and I know of people who have lost their job already because the small business that they work for can not afford the Affordable Care Act. EVERY expert that has looked at Obama Care says that it will indeed drive up the overall cost of healthcare.

The folks I know involved in Healthcare are some of the most concerned. The government goes into the healthcare business, but it does NOTHING to ensure that there is an increase in health care workers, they do this while cutting budgets to colleges where it is now almost impossible to get into a nursing program, they are at capacity now, but not producing enough nurses and doctors to keep up with demand.

Lot's of issues to talk about. I truly believe that neither party has "all of the answers". I do understand what the past four years of policies have done to the business community...and I know that the economy is not recovering it is in a holding pattern. Throwing money at the economy in the form of "stimulus" has not worked in the US or in Europe.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 11-21-2012 02:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jason2579
Jack to answer ? i will use my company example for you. Recent contract the company was able to save 10 million dollars. Less than 1/10 of that in 2 years has been reinvested into the company and most of it on safety issues since OSHA cracked them. But the 3 major players in the contract negoiations that work for the company as upper management all received 2 million dollar bonus. Not saying all but most companies practice business this way.

You say "recent contract".
Does that mean that a union negotiated for you?
And now you're upset with the company?
You can bet that those bonuses you speak of were negotiated into the wage package. I'm sure the owner(s) didn't give it to them because they felt like being nice.
Instead of being jealous of them , become one of them.

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Posted by groworg1 on 11-21-2012 02:43 PM:

joe if what you say about taxes on the rich is true please explain clinton era taxes and jobs everywhere ?

Posted by Doug A on 11-21-2012 02:53 PM:

Grow org - it was called the internetboom. It busted just before slick willy left office. Ol Bubba handed Bush a sinking economy but there is only one president who whines to the media about such things.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 11-21-2012 02:55 PM:

Look at it this way......
If a company has 500 jobs to fill , but there are only 250 people looking for work , what are they going to do to get those 500 workers?
Offer more money !
If there are 2500 people looking for work , the wages will be far less because they'll find their 500 out of that 2500.

If you want to bring wages (and benefits) up , you have to create more jobs than there are people to fill them. Supply and demand. Simple as that.
Or , if you have only one gas station in town , they can charge whatever they want. BUT , open up another one and see what happens. Because of competition , they keep each others prices honest.

Whether you're buying or selling , competition keeps things in balance.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Posted by rance56 on 11-21-2012 04:04 PM:

Jason, i am sure your company would do great with those measures. im sure all the top management talent would flock to your company, lol.

your competion would leave you way behind.

see below

http://articles.marketwatch.com/201...-general-motors

"Following a $50 billion bailout in 2009, the U.S. taxpayers now own almost 27% of the company. But the newspaper said GM executives are now chafing at that, saying it hurts the company's reputation and its ability to attract top talent due to PAY RESTRICTIONS. "

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Posted by groworg1 on 11-21-2012 10:25 PM:

it's more like this let them have all that money for nothing and thats what they'll do nothing thats whether its at the top or bottom of the scale ! money for nothing and your chicks for free !

Posted by jason2579 on 11-21-2012 11:58 PM:

Rance your probably right. But it's clear you don't pay attention to the job market. Cause much like factory workers ceo come and go everyday. What proof my company has went threw 3 in 2 years. Plenty of young kids coming out of college looking for work. Now you can do as you want. I've came to the conclusion a long time ago some you guys will eat whatever they feed you and accept it cause that is how your party wants it. If your happy with what you do and what you make that's good for you don't knock others that work everyday trying to get more to better there lifes. Good day to you all. As for being jealous. LOL nope i know what my job is and what i'm getting paid for. Rather you guys like it or not in a factory or any other business one doesn't get done without the other. You can pay them guys all that big money you want if you don't have guys to build it your screwed if you don't have guys to build it right and take pride in what they build your screwed. Take care everyone. Of course i guess you can do things the republican way and outsource over seas and then we can all be in the poor house. Have a great day.

Posted by rance56 on 11-22-2012 12:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jason2579
If your happy with what you do and what you make that's good for you don't knock others that work everyday trying to get more to better there lifes. Good day to you all. .

So just what are these folks doing to get more. Striking? I'm 35 years old an still taking classes on my own an taking certification programs to earn the right to more money.

Regardless I don't know of any truly skilled blue collar worker who doesn't get paid pretty dern well. I'm sure the cook at McDonald's works hard also but just how much money an benefits do they deserve. To many folks think they are entitled to a good life the only thing u r entitled is the opportunity to make a good life for yourself

An I just love how y'all gloss over nafta being signed into law under clinton

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Posted by Hey Preacher!!! on 11-22-2012 03:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jason2579
don't knock others that work everyday trying to get more to better there lifes.

Even if they're millionaires?

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