UKC Forums - Everybody has a "stud dog" ?

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Posted by Dwils on 09-13-2012 05:01 AM:

Who really cares as long as their coon treers

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Posted by Jackson87 on 09-13-2012 06:07 AM:

Exactly!People need to start with there dog treein coons as the #1 goal.Yeah its nice to have a big bawl mouth dog.Yeah its nice for them to have a big jug head and be blanket backed.The main thing i want is a highly accurate dog that consistantly get under a coon.It seems people have that last on there list anymore. Weither its Mojo or Cujo you need to hunt with a few of there pups before you get too serious.Your opinion will more than likly change.JMO

Posted by Oak Ridge on 09-13-2012 11:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dwils
Who really cares as long as their coon treers

Wait now...I care, and my personal opinion is that more people SHOULD care.

There was a time when folks stopped caring about coon in trees, they just wanted one to get treed and stay treed....and before long the "super sire syndrome" bit us in the hind end and we bred to hard, hard tree dogs. Sure, they may miss a bunch, but by golly they got treed. A few generations later, we are all looking for one that has coon in trees, and not just leaves.

I remember when "ticked up" and open spotted dogs became undesirable, so again, the blanket back tan headed "super sire syndrome" bit us....and we bred for color only trying to get the perfect dog.

We will all never agree as to what it takes to make the "perfect" dog.....but I think we can all agree that a hound should sound like a hound, be a coon treeing dog, and be enjoyable to hunt.

I'm not against chop mouth track dogs...I won't own one, and certainly would not breed one. I want my dogs to sound like a hound, not the neighbors yard dog....I have a mountain cur for that, and to tree squirrels..... But I do know that one of today's "super sires" throws a ton of chop mouth track dogs.....

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Posted by amazingcursouth on 09-13-2012 01:23 PM:

look back at the hounds of the 70's and 80's. Good many were open spotted BLACK AND WHITE. I had a dog that was open spotted and ticked up and the only brown was above his eyes. Best coon dog i have had to this day and i have owned and handled a few nice ones. breed for quality, not color or super stud.

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Posted by Dan D. on 09-13-2012 03:26 PM:

my opinion

remember years ago when you went coon huntin you actually treed some. i believe if 75% of the hounds today, and alot are being studded out or used as a brood bitch, were around 50 years ago they would have been shot. Back then the name of the game was fur on the limb. Now days its all about money hunts and trophies and how fast a dog can get treed, who cares if they have a coon. I still breed for a balanced dog that trees real live racoons and i always will.

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Posted by down and out on 09-13-2012 03:44 PM:

In my opinion the Female is more important than the stud. For some reason most think it's all the stud dog no matter what p.o.s. you breed to him. I for one put more emphasis on the mother. . Brood gyp to me is the dirtiest word in coonhunting. It's not the dogs that need culled as much as the "breeders" thinking they know how to produce top hounds.

Posted by down and out on 09-13-2012 03:51 PM:

In the three years I got to hunt this dog before he was hit by a car I walked to one slick and zero dens.This pic is from 1979. And I'll be ridiculed and called a liar for that statement but it's the cold hard facts,dogs use to actually have a coon when they treed at one time. He had Johnson's Banjo in his third generation top and bottom.

Posted by Tyler Vaden on 09-14-2012 12:27 PM:

I know the female matters and coon treeing is a must. Now with all of the studs out there who has what I'm looking for?

Posted by midnite2010 on 09-14-2012 12:55 PM:

a buddy of mine has a all grnd trackman dog that is throwin nice pups what ive seen out of huntin with 5 or 6 of them that they r independent good lookin have the coon when they tree. have good mouths

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Posted by devan131313 on 09-14-2012 07:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by kayapellijed390
Now that is funny! Must not have read the part about BAWL mouthed!

just trying to lighten up everyones day LOL

Posted by Matt McKinney on 09-14-2012 07:31 PM:

I thought you were a big Gunsmoke man?

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Vaden
I know the female matters and coon treeing is a must. Now with all of the studs out there who has what I'm looking for?

Posted by Tyler Vaden on 09-14-2012 07:43 PM:

I think Gunsmoke and Legend are the 2 that fit the bill for what I'm looking for, but you have to keep your eyes open. A good buddy of mine has Gunsmoke at stud (still not free for me) and I think Gun or Legend will be what I bred to next. Legend and Gun are bred some what a like
Gun= Sackett,Rattler, and Lipper.
Legend= Coma,Sackett, and Rattler.

Posted by Matt McKinney on 09-14-2012 07:46 PM:

Yeah richard turner has gun...I hunt with leon all the time, have hunted with gun more times than i can count.

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Vaden
I think Gunsmoke and Legend are the 2 that fit the bill for what I'm looking for, but you have to keep your eyes open. A good buddy of mine has Gunsmoke at stud (still not free for me) and I think Gun or Legend will be what I bred to next.

Posted by Tyler Vaden on 09-14-2012 07:54 PM:

The female I'm bred is out of Jake. Somewhere's Legend has been winning a lot is out of a Jake female and Legend. With Gun be bred some what like Legend may not matter what way I go.

Posted by dale browers on 09-14-2012 08:16 PM:

CROSS BREED THEM .IT WORK'S SOMETIMES

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Posted by down and out on 09-14-2012 08:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dale browers
CROSS BREED THEM .IT WORK'S SOMETIMES

I can vouche for that

Posted by chip johnson on 09-15-2012 03:30 PM:

it's funny to hear everyone say how accurate the dogs were back in the 80's because i was hunting then too,lots and lots of slick trees just like the dogs of today that everyone complains about. I had a male that just as soon as another dog opened on a track he would go in there and tree on the first tree that he came to. Then i had two female that you might see one coon out of ten trees and seen many other dogs just like them. How is that for accurate dogs in the 80's? In another 10 or 20 years the dogs that were in the 90's will have gotten more accurate too. What i have figured out is that most of that slick treeing is in the training.

Posted by Travis Brown on 09-15-2012 05:17 PM:

Re: Everybody has a "stud dog" ?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tyler Vaden
Everybody has a "stud dog"? Lot of the times in Football when you have 2 QBs you don't have one good one. When I say Stud I want a dog that throws the same thing in every pup. Rat threw treedogs. Harry threw track dogs. With Sun passing this week there is not one dog that stands out as a true STUD to me that is throwing more Bawl mouth track dogs then Chop all the way. Trackman is getting old. Legend is throw some nice ones as well as Gunsmoke. There is a few young dogs that I think could be studs.

But where is the true 4 or 5 STUDs in the Walker bred that are throwing bawl mouth track dogs. [/QUOTE

Sounds like you need to get something bred to Briar Cliff Drum quick while he is in Kentucky before he is back in Texas and too far to breed to.

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 09-15-2012 06:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by chip johnson
it's funny to hear everyone say how accurate the dogs were back in the 80's because i was hunting then too,lots and lots of slick trees just like the dogs of today that everyone complains about. I had a male that just as soon as another dog opened on a track he would go in there and tree on the first tree that he came to. Then i had two female that you might see one coon out of ten trees and seen many other dogs just like them. How is that for accurate dogs in the 80's? In another 10 or 20 years the dogs that were in the 90's will have gotten more accurate too. What i have figured out is that most of that slick treeing is in the training.

Nobody is saying that there were not idiots then too....We just took those kind back to the "dog trader" where we got them, or planted them on the spot!

The big difference is that we didn't put them in competition hunts all summer long while the leaves are on, hang some fancy title on them and call them breeding stock! They were culls, and they got culled.

Today we reward the dog that gets treed the most by breeding it the most! Big difference.

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Posted by bob country jr on 09-15-2012 10:44 PM:

oak ridge

are you kin to Bill Morris you guys post alot alike.

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Posted by CSnowgren on 09-15-2012 10:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Nobody is saying that there were not idiots then too....We just took those kind back to the "dog trader" where we got them, or planted them on the spot!

The big difference is that we didn't put them in competition hunts all summer long while the leaves are on, hang some fancy title on them and call them breeding stock! They were culls, and they got culled.

Today we reward the dog that gets treed the most by breeding it the most! Big difference.

So then how much value do you place on the hunts as they relate to affecting what is being produced across the board as a whole? Do the hunts help enough to turn a cheek to the negative? Are we breeding to a set of rules or a standard?

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Posted by Jackson87 on 09-15-2012 11:14 PM:

So Tyler,how many Gunsmoke dogs have you hunted with?

Posted by down and out on 09-15-2012 11:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CSnowgren
So then how much value do you place on the hunts as they relate to affecting what is being produced across the board as a whole? Do the hunts help enough to turn a cheek to the negative? Are we breeding to a set of rules or a standard?

The hunts are what have hurt the balanced hound. Not many want a dog to work a cold track anymore, one boy even breaks his from running in bean fields. I had a guy ask me a few years ago if I knew of a good summer dog. When I asked what he considers a summer dog he said" one that gets treed alot I can hunt of buckets in the summer hunts". So yes the dog that gets treed every 100 yards are in demand in some circles and being bred for just that.

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