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-- lay up coons (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=80307)

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Originally posted by bulkyker
No one has ever turned loose a couple good track dogs, heard a good race and on the way to the tree shine a couple coons sitting up 100 yards from the truck?

Some dogs need a track to make a tree. Some don't. I don't think a lay-up dog is lazy or better or worse than a track dog. Some of them just seem to go where the coon is and tell you about it, without needing a track to make sure.

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Voyd, I personally have owned 3 very good "layup" dogs 2 were mother and daughter, the other was a great, great, drand son of the first. All were good hunters and track dogs. The great, great grand mother was so hard going that many times upon coming in from an "all niter", I'd just throw my clothers in the floor and swear off hunting her. Gave half interest in her to a friend in Indiana who put her in the hunts and did "big winning" with her.

The grandmother would consistently tree "layups" that her littermates could not even bark on the tree. Don't know if the art is learned or inherited. Personally I beleive the ability is inherited, but maybe the "ART" is learned and refined under conditions.

Justin, treeing layups isn't a hound trait. Does your dog have bulldog, birddog or border collie breeding in it? What color is your dog?

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Originally posted by huntingnick
you get a lot of information when you ask a question on this board, some of it good, some of it bad, but interesting to say the least,

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It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

pick away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

Mr. Grubbs I have seen a couple layup dogs that was tops in every department but most dogs that just fall treed shouldn't be considered layup dogs.

Grubs , I think the kind of dog you're talking about is just so smart that they will at times take shortcuts to the meat , but there is a track there if they wanted to do it that way... I hunted with a female that cold trailed and treed many coons that other dogs never knew made a track ... but she would also tree "lay ups" .... I think on layups that kind of dog smells the coon in the air stronger than the trail on the ground .

Grubbs , were those dogs honest on track ? Meaning did they open on bobbles or open on a lose ?

I have seen dogs that just check trees like crazy. They will sometimes find a coon and tree and people will think its a layup. Wind or lack of it plays a huge role in how a hound can run a track.

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Originally posted by sheepster
pick away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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__________________
It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

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Originally posted by Voyd Cannon
Mr. Grubbs I have seen a couple layup dogs that was tops in every department but most dogs that just fall treed shouldn't be considered layup dogs.

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__________________
It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

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Originally posted by Ken Wrobel
I have seen dogs that just check trees like crazy. They will sometimes find a coon and tree and people will think its a layup. Wind or lack of it plays a huge role in how a hound can run a track.

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__________________
It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

I'll tell ya just as Honest as I can. I've heard him open on the ground but very, very, very, little. I wouldn't call him stone cold 100% silent but from what I've seen he's just a step above it. But from what I hear he's opening more now. I dont know, all I know is what I saw and heard. Regardless of that he is one of the best coondogs I have even been in the woods with. EVER. ANY BREED. EVER. PERIOD. He gets the job done. He's a COONFINDER.

__________________
In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

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Originally posted by Voyd Cannon
Justin, treeing layups isn't a hound trait. Does your dog have bulldog, birddog or border collie breeding in it? What color is your dog?

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John one of these dog ran loose with leopard cattle dogs until he was 2 years old, he learned how to wind from them, HE WAS WICKED.

Justin

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Originally posted by Justin Smith
Twenty years ago , this line of dogs had a very small dose of bulldog and July in them ... I'm sure there are other breeds in them but can't say for sure.

My dog is all hound in looks and action , but I think he falls treed to my ear when he T-bones a track near the tree or smells coon in the air stronger than on the ground and he just doesn't babble going to the tree .... how many dogs are following an air current but there is still enough track scent on the ground that they are opening going to the tree ?

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" OLD' DIAMOND JIM " LONG LIVE THE KING OF COONHOUNDS.

treeing layups &cold tracks are a differnt ballgame . years ago i had a female walker that was good at working a cold track but had to have a track to tree her own coon i at the same time had a walker male i would call hot nosed but was a true layup dog.the male would tree layups where the female had no idea there was a coon yet she could trail a coon & tree it he was unaware of . i can't explane it other than some dogs have a knack for it but being cold nosed isn't an issue because i have seen cold nosed & hot nosed dogs with the ability.i will agree some so called layups were tracks that dogs didn;t open on but a true layup dog is interesting to watch operate.

Justin, most good track dogs feel obligated to open some around a tree before that locate and start treeing.

Justin, why didn't you just come out and tell us that you was hunting one of Freds pit, doberman and july mixes.

Re: Justin

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Originally posted by no show
What is july (besides a month) Raider is one of the best looking and acting hounds I have seen of any breed.

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__________________
It takes a big man to cry; it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

Justin you talk about 20 years ago? Who told you that? 20 years ago you was 2 years old. You talk about your dog doing this and that? LOL what dog is that? You had to borrow one from somebody. You don't even own a dog that will tree and you are talking like a world class houndsman. Whats up with you man?

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Because I can.

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Originally posted by Voyd Cannon
Justin, most good track dogs feel obligated to open some around a tree before that locate and start treeing.

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I don't disagree and that is the reason that I said that they usually feel obligated to open.

lay up dog

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Originally posted by Voyd Cannon
I don't think the nose is that much different on dogs and most dogs that tree layups are as a rule are poor track dogs, most layup dogs are to sorry to hustle a track and don't have what it takes to be a top dog and they have found that it is easier to just trot around with their head up and get treed.

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Well now Voyd that may or may not be a hound trait as I have always suspected my old female had one of those Black and Tan bird dogs in her background, can't think of the name of them but they had wavy hair that is longer than a hounds but are colored up like a Black and Tan. It's an old line of bird dog, don't think there are many left in the US any more, I believe they are from Europe.

The reason I have always thought this was because her line is known for throwing "rough haired" dogs, and she had more brains than any other hound I have ever before or since seen period. She was scary smart, and as I have already said was a track driving fool with the ability to lay them up too. She was a little rough haired on her back herself, and many of her pups had some rough hair.

She always winded, she came out of the box doing it every turn out. Who knows maybe she did have some of that old bird dog in her way back.

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Let's go huntin

There are some great, true, lay up dogs out there. But many times I think some people confuse a "layed up" coon for one that the dogs just happened to "ambush" and he didn't try to run anywhere but just ran right up a tree. Just my opinion.

__________________
In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain