UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Why such a big deal about silent dogs? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=7156)

Its really easy. Just like striking any other dog. When he barks say strike my dog (State his name of course). Just like that. Just because he gets last strike dont mean you dont get to strike him in.
Hope this helps,

__________________
Quit crying and get a BLACK DOG!!
Shannon Straub
Buck Creek B&T's
Corydon, In.

What's the difference?

Between a slient mouthed hound and a tight mouthed hound? one of my black males are tight mouthed. on a cold track he is semi-slient but on a day old or hot track he is an opener. So how does one judge that in a competion? Please explain in non-critial terms.

A tight mouthed dog will bark on track some.
A silent track dog don't say nothing till he gets to the tree.

quote:

---

I've yet to hear much of anything positive about the night hunts and the people who hunt in them.

---

I should probably stay out of this but

I won't.

"Continuously Silent" What does that mean and how do you prove it? Many that I have heard from feel that the ONLY way to scratch a dog for being continuously slient is to compete for 2hrs. Should the dog fail to open on the ground at ANYTIME during the hunt, you could scratch him for being continously silent. I sort of agree with that logic. I suppose you could scratch him after the second drop for failing to open on the ground but he could very open open on the third drop. Right?

I own two semi-silent dogs. Both HAVE opened on the ground, neither do it often. They are for all intents and purposes, silent. I have hunted them in competition hunts, mainly PKC but I have hunted in a couple State hunts. I have had 1st strike numerous times due to them out hunting the other dogs and getting struck and treed in the same breath. No need for fancy calling either. They bark, you strike them, they bark again, you tree them... Like I said, I have heard both open and trail. I think they are junking most of those times. Both are Grand Nites.

Now, I would like to know how a dog has been scratched for being silent. I have never seen the rule enforced.

__________________
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events
Small minds discuss each other

Tank

Maybe you could explain that a little.
Or define a strike.
I thought a strike was when a dog opened on trail and a tree bark was when he opened on tree.
When you say you " strike them and tree them all in the same breath" , In my mind you are claiming trail points that your dog didn't earn according to the " Honor Rules ". Where is the honor in knowingly calling your dog to gain points he didn't deserve according to the rules?
Just curious.
Bob

silent

Fellas, if you have any silent plotts or any hounds for that matter. I will take them. I am a hog hunter who knows the joys of silent dogs.


Wes

I have scratched a dog for being silent on track and will again if it happens again. Any dog that trees three times and never opens on trail while the other dogs on the cast are opening will get to go home early.

Praise God....

Thank you tank. That is what I have been trying to prove all along.

__________________
Quit crying and get a BLACK DOG!!
Shannon Straub
Buck Creek B&T's
Corydon, In.

Notice he said he supposed you could scratch him on the second drop.

If a dog is in my cast on two tracks with other dogs opening and him in there with him he is GONE and there won't be a thing he can do about it. He was CONTINUOUSLY silent. One track might have been an accident, two silent tracks and he is continuously silent (provided he hasn't already opened on track sometime in the night).

If he stays by himself then I can't prove he was silent, but if he is on two tracks that others run and he don't then I CAN prove he was silent and THE HANDLER OF THAT DOG broke the rules.

Till they change the rule or give an official interpretation otherwise then the two track thing is all it will take for me to scratch him. It's no different than scratching a NTCH for a possum, he broke the rules and he is GONE and rightfully so.

__________________
Let's go huntin

Just for arguement sake if UKC said they would allow you to hunt a silent dog only this had to disclosed at the begining of the hunt or you would be scratched for any track that was plussed or circled where your dog participated at the tree with open trailing dogs. This dog would have to take only available strike points when treeing with open trailing dogs but would be allowed first strike on trees when all other dogs were shut out on tree. Would this be fair?

I say no.
Strike points go to dogs that are barking on trail.
If a dog is silent on trail then he deserves no strike points !

What about this scenario

1st drop- Dogs A, B, C are trailing and tree. Dog D never opened on the track but runs in and covers. He HAS to be struck whether treeing or trailing because of rule 6e. Coon scored, D gets 25+

2nd drop- Dogs A, B and C open and trail left handed. Dog D falls treed to your right. Once again, he HAS to be struck regardless of trailing or treeing or risk being scratched. Coon scored.

Dog D has not opened on track yet. Does this mean we can scratch him for being silent?

For that matter, we could recast D to the other trailing dogs. They then tree. Dog D covers them again. That is 3 trees in a row that the dog has not opened on track and I am still not going to scratch him.

__________________
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events
Small minds discuss each other

Rip

you scratch the dog on the second track he run's silent,so how do you know he won't open on th third??

One more question,have you ever circled a tree when you knew there was a good chance there was no coon there?

__________________
B&B's Black and Tans

PR B and B's Smokin' Willie


"PR"B and B's Coon Doctor
( Gr.Nite Ch.Bee Creek Dr.Max xGr.Nite Ch. Moonshine Maggie)

Past Home of:

Nite Ch. "PR"B and B's Smokin' Misty (2007-2018)

Nite Ch B&B's Black Hoss (1992-2003)

Nite Ch.Gr.Ch. Shaker Hill Mr. Grubbs (2003-2011)

Tank- Take a few hours to research the archives of BLOODLINES JOURNAL. Men like Mr. Craver and Dale Brandenburger were answering to this question and everyone thought that they had it pretty well sorted out years ago. Looks to me like hunts are no longer designed for the proving and improvement of the breeds but as a playground for Saturday nite "GLADIATORS". These (usually) young fellows are constantly looking for the "winner" to buy and put into the hunts. "Houndsmen" do still take some pride in maintaining the open trailing trait of "hounds".

Consider these true definitions; to "HOUND" means to worry or nag until opponent becomes weary and gives up.

To "SNEAK" means to move quietly in an underhanded and cowardly manner.

Pick your category.

I do agree wi Mr Staub that the dog that puts the coon up the tree should be applauded, but not the one that just follows along and "tells the story" when it's all done.

Me and Pa killed a bear, but Pa shot it.

Yup it's also against the rules.

Tank-In one of your responding posts you refer to "THE RULE". Obviously you are acknowledging that "THE RULE" exists. You further state that you have "never seen it enforced". I would definitely think that ,in your position, you would feel compelled to somehow try to figure out how to get all UKC rules and Policies followed,rather than condone and promote undermining them.

SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Billy, I don't know he wouldn't have opened on the third drop but I DO know he didn't open on two perfectly good tracks that he "ran" with the other dogs and all three of them had no trouble opening on it. Matter of fact judging by them both tracks were really good tracks. Now he fits the bill as being continuously silent, he has ran two GOOD tracks and hasn't opened for the entire night. I scratch him end of story. Therefore, he was continuously silent THAT HUNT. If he had opened JUST ONE TIME on the ground I would NOT have scratched him, also if the tracks were iffey or not good then same thing. I don't scratch on what I think, I scratch on what I KNOW. To me scratching is a last resort and I will be positive of the violation before I do it.

As for if I have ever circled a tree knowing there was a good chance the coon wasn't there YES I HAVE. See you got no choice because the rules don't say vote on what you think, they say if a there is a place of refuge where a coon COULD be then you have to vote circle. It doesn't matter if every other dog in the cast is on it and my dog has the meat fifty yards away, if there is a place big enough for the coon to hide and I can't shine it good enough to KNOW he ain't there then I have no choice I MUST circle the tree no matter if I am 99.9% sure the tree is slick. I have no choice because of what the rules say, even if that circle tree caused me to lose the cast I would vote to circle if a coon COULD hide there.

__________________
Let's go huntin

rip

rip I will have to adree with you on what your saying. not!!!
you turn the dogs loose there all wound up cut after a minute or so dogs start opening they are really moving this track for about a quarter to a half. Bam one dog stikes and trees the other dogs run in and cover the dog treed. This happens twice in the hunt and you scratched the silent dog. When in all reallity the coon track was only 3ft long for the one dog was running hard trying to get away from the other dogs and ran into the coon in the process while the other dogs were trailing the one dog that they couldn't keep up with. Who should really get scratched???????

__________________
Tree Jar'n Black and Tans
Home of Tree Jar'n Coonhound Kennels


319-201-8445

well

It took a whole month but berger finally hit the nail on the head. I've had dogs fall treed and the other did'nt even know there was a coon within a mile of them. I think its time to change this rule period.

__________________
blow the top out of it

i think its time to change the rule too. i thought dogs scratched 3 times for running silent should be banned just like a fighting dog. instead of banning them just designate them silent trailers. dogs known to be silent trailers could have silent added to their ukc name. you can hunt them in the hunts. you cant strike them on track... tree points only..that seemed reasonable to me till i thought what a mess this could turn into.. dog designated silent then he starts opening. rules on a piece of paper you carry into the woods i guess cant handle all situations. ive seen dogs that would chase another dog and bark. i dont think they deserve more points than a silent trailer. ive had dogs that were open trailers but didnt always open. i called them semi-silent trailers. i like that type dog.. no boo hooing around... . i am totaly against silent trailers. im not real fond of babbling dogs either. i really dont know what the answer is. grubbs im with you the difference between a hound and just a dog is his trailing. dogs will tree game. hounds bark on trail. i will not keep a silent trailing dog in my yard. i will keep a semi silent dog. he barks when right on his game, he barks enuff so i know where hes headed but theres lots of times he doesnt bark on a cold track. . so what rule would work. i sure cant think of any any better than we have now.. pete

I dont want one that is silient or mouthy in ahunt.not saying either type isnt a coondog.I have owned and hunted silient dogs that had more hunt in them than some of these dogs you see at the hunts.But they were hog dogs.Billy

well...here we are again...this old horse is stinking so bad that it makes buzzards puke..this rule has been there for a long time...as long as there are people huntin silent dogs we will probably be havin this discussion...BUT....i feel that we all know what is a track bark and a tree bark...how can we justify striking a dog on the first tree bark when we ALL know that it isnt a trailing bark???....Maybe UKC needs to rewrite the rule, either to say the dog must open on the ground and before the tree or be scratched after the second offense...or not award strike points to that dog...only award tree points...it would be tough to dig out of a hole like that...no strike and all first trees...

__________________
http://coonhuntinheaven.freeservers.com
Dean Lambert

Ring-tail Kennels

It takes as much to feed a good hound as a sorry one!!!!

You cant call him treed until you

You cant call him treed until after you declare him struck, the rules
state that you have to call your hound struck on or after the third bark. How are you going to strike in a silent hound?

__________________
Home of
Log Woods Chester, Treeing Walker,

GRNITECH GR"CH "PR" KIZERS Bleedin Blue Slugger, Bluetick and PR Netherys Trixie Bluetick

Yes WALKER DOG, it's time for ALL the breed associations to get involved and ask the rules committee reps. to get together and clarify this rule once and for all.

I no longer hunt in the hunts BUT, I can see that these type of dogs may become desirable to SOME and the hound breed will become contaminated with still mouth dogs.

I'll go ahead and answer the anticipated question as to why they "have the edge" on an open trailer. BECAUSE an open trailer is at risk of minus every time he opens and does not tree,for whatever reason. A still mouth dog is NEVER risking his strike points if he is collecting them when he opens on the tree,UNLESS he trees slick ar off game, the same as an open trailer.

Got out some old publications last nite and Dec. '69 rules corner of the COONER Dale Brandenburger addressed this issue a couple of times. Once he said that a dog should prove that he is an open trailer. All the "old timers" disdained a silent dog.

I think now the "TAIL IS WAGGING THE DOG" in some peoples mind when it comes to what the hunts were originated for in the first place. Improvement of the sport of coon hunting NOT an EGO trip.

Its time to change the rule and not scratch dogs for being silent. As we've seen, this rule seldom, if ever, gets enforced. The way to eliminate silent dogs is to produce honest, open mouthed. coondogs that don't screw up because they will beat a silent dog nearly every time.

A silent dog is only hurting themselves, points-wise. Yes, an open trailer that screws up will be worse off than a silent dog that trees coons but to me the responsibility for that lies with the open trailer's faults, not the silent dog's strengths.

Babbling dogs are 10 times the problem in hunts that silent dogs are. Babblers take points they don't deserve. If we are concerned with how dogs are getting strike points, babblers and how to eliminate them or reduce their advantage is what we should be talking about. imo.