UKC Forums - Hardtime Speck?

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-- Hardtime Speck? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=604)

Posted by perry co cooner on 03-25-2013 06:25 AM:

Another 10 year old thread.

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Posted by doggingit on 03-26-2013 03:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redtick
Gayle, I personally do not think Speck did that much for the English breed as a whole but there are plenty of folks that would argue the other way. Fine, they have a right to their opinion. I do know the lines of English that I am hunting, I have 2 seperate lines and breed for 2 different sets of traits in each line. I advetise the Buddy line as being Junior bred but Buddy was 100% Platte Valley on his mother's side and that side puts more nose in the line than the Junior dogs do. I like my Buddy line to be cold nosed and when I breed that line, I breed for the cold nosed tracking ability as much as the tree dog ability. I see alot of English breeders advertise cold nosed dogs (some of my friends) and I know personally their dogs are not that cold nosed. More like hot nosed. Anyone who puts alot of Speck in their dogs is not breeding for a cold nose. There may be some of the Speck-Little Joe dogs that may have had a decent nose, but almost all Speck bred dogs that I have seen were medium to hot nosed dogs. And, most just had average mouths. And, no one could win very many bench shows with alot of Speck bred dogs.
My lines of English are not perfect but most of them are true to the type of dogs I am trying to breed for. Not all coondogs are the same type of coondogs, not all English strains produce the same type of dogs, and most English folks really do not have a true to type strain of English. (Just my opinion)

IVE SEEN QUIET A FEW GOGS OUT OF DAVES LAKELAND KENNELS UP IN NORTHERN WIS THEY CALL BEAR DOGS ALL I SEEN WHERE DOGS THAT BABBLED AND ME TO DOGS COULDNT MOVE A TRACK WITH OUT ANOTHER DOG TO FOLLOW

Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 03-26-2013 01:48 PM:

It is 2013 and I still think Hardtime Speck was nothing but a silent trailing WAlker. That's my opinion, what is yours?

Ed Bates is a fine man and had plenty of true bred English that did real well for the English breed. He was honest enough to tell me Speck was silent.

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Posted by bubba41034 on 03-26-2013 02:17 PM:

Saw ed at Mojo hunt. Last weekend along with calvin hayes

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Posted by englishbuddy on 03-26-2013 02:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bubba41034
Saw ed at Mojo hunt. Last weekend along with calvin hayes

John those 2 have been to the circus and saw the elephant........

Posted by Doug Terrell on 03-26-2013 03:46 PM:

Buddy I would say your right on that,heck they might of road it.

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Posted by SCOTT ENGLE on 03-26-2013 04:14 PM:

Ed Bates and Calvin Hayes are as tough as it gets. Two fine men, the best in my mind! Hardtime Speck was a reproducer, most all the good English dogs around here was off him when I started. My hats off to these men! Y'all done a fine job!

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Posted by Doug Robinson on 03-26-2013 09:08 PM:

Opinion

quote:
Originally posted by Lakeland Kennel
It is 2013 and I still think Hardtime Speck was nothing but a silent trailing WAlker. That's my opinion, what is yours?

You asked for my opinion and here it is. According to what you stated last week Dave you said you like to keep things stirred up on the message board, and based on the last ten yrs reading your bull I would say I dont believe i would take your twisted opinion over those that actually hunted with Speck.

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Posted by Doug Terrell on 03-26-2013 10:44 PM:

Doug you hit the nail on the head saying that.
I dont see any reason to bash a dead dog, or a live one of any breed or line. If you like one tell people,if you dont like one,keep it to your self or to friends. Bashing does nothing to help the breed,just turns people off to a breed as a hole.

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it's nice to have a tree dog but the name of the game is to have a coon in the tree.
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Doug Terrell
Phone # 937-213-1779

Posted by Richard Moore on 03-26-2013 11:43 PM:

SPECK

MY BREEDING PROGRAM WOULD NEVER HAS BECOME WHAT IT HAS BECOME WITHOUT SPECK.ROCKY'S SIRE WAS A RED AND WHITE EIGHTY POUND ENGLISH HOUND. HE WAS BRED TO A SPECK FEMALE. THE ENTIRE LITTER WERE COON DOGS. ROCKY DID NOT LOOK LIKE A SPECK HOUND. HE GOT HIS LOOKS,HUNTING STYLE AND SIZE FROM HIS GRAND SIRE DAN RIVER SPOT. THE POINT IS THAT THE ENGLISH BREED OWE'S A LOT TO---- CALVIN HAYES, ED BATES AND WORLD CH HARDITME SPECK.---- JUST THINK OF ALL THE DOGS THAT NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN BORN.

Posted by Doug Robinson on 03-27-2013 01:08 AM:

Re: SPECK

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Moore
MY BREEDING PROGRAM WOULD NEVER HAS BECOME WHAT IT HAS BECOME WITHOUT SPECK.ROCKY'S SIRE WAS A RED AND WHITE EIGHTY POUND ENGLISH HOUND. HE WAS BRED TO A SPECK FEMALE. THE ENTIRE LITTER WERE COON DOGS. ROCKY DID NOT LOOK LIKE A SPECK HOUND. HE GOT HIS LOOKS,HUNTING STYLE AND SIZE FROM HIS GRAND SIRE DAN RIVER SPOT. THE POINT IS THAT THE ENGLISH BREED OWE'S A LOT TO---- CALVIN HAYES, ED BATES AND WORLD CH HARDITME SPECK.---- JUST THINK OF ALL THE DOGS THAT NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN BORN.

Exactly right Richard Speck was the backbone of several breeding programs!

Posted by Hystyle02 on 03-27-2013 01:33 AM:

I reckon i,ve hunted with several dogs off Speck myself, percentage wise they were the best i,ve ever hunted with bar none. Ed Bates and Calvin Hayes were coonhunters not people who get on the internet and talk about it. Thiry some years later after I first met them they still remain close friends and are two of the best friends I ever had. Never heard them bad mouth other lines of English like some do. After nearly thirty years after SPECK died, i find it interesting that you still see HARDTIME on papers today, that would tell me that HARDTIME SPECK made quiet an impact on the english breed in spite of what some tend to believe. And one more thing when you enter a hunt there is one winner, if you can't stand to lose you best stay home, jmo. Mike Williams

Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 03-27-2013 08:05 PM:

After just a quick look, I don't see anything in the English breed standards that call for an open mouthed hound. I may have missed something though.

There are several strains if English that are known for producing still trailers. I won't mention any names but if any one does some research, you will know I am speaking the truth. Some still trailers win big time in the hunts even though the rules clearly call for open trailers. No only English still trailers, still trailers of all breeds win in the hunts.

Very few genes that Speck carried are in the English gene pool these days. Just like almost every stud dog in the past, Specks genes have been outcrossed so much, I would doubt if any genetisist could find many if any genes that will trace back to Speck these days. How long has he been dead, 30 years or more?

I have never done this myself but I know for a fact that you can take any male out of tree minded strain of hound, (any breed) and cross it with a competition bred bird dog and get pups that will win competition hunts. Lots of times, you might have a hard time seeing the bird dog in the resulting pups. The bird dog will certainly tighten the resulting pups up making for some really good, tight mouthed coon dogs. But, it that what we want to breed for, part bird dogs? Personally, I will stick with full blooded English myself.

Posted by Barry Franklin on 03-27-2013 09:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hystyle02
I reckon i,ve hunted with several dogs off Speck myself, percentage wise they were the best i,ve ever hunted with bar none. Ed Bates and Calvin Hayes were coonhunters not people who get on the internet and talk about it. Thiry some years later after I first met them they still remain close friends and are two of the best friends I ever had. Never heard them bad mouth other lines of English like some do. After nearly thirty years after SPECK died, i find it interesting that you still see HARDTIME on papers today, that would tell me that HARDTIME SPECK made quiet an impact on the english breed in spite of what some tend to believe. And one more thing when you enter a hunt there is one winner, if you can't stand to lose you best stay home, jmo. Mike Williams

Hey Mike, hope all is well !! I wonder where the English Breed would be if not for Hardtime Speck, Boyds Little Joe, and the Blueboy II dogs !! By the way, I've owned a Daughter, a Double Grand Daughter, a Double Great Grand Son as well as others from the Speck line!! "If it ain't broke don't fix it" I still got one at the house that goes back to Rock and Speck. Funny how people get upset and mad at people that had enough sense and vision to know what the English breed needed at that time !! I still ain't mad over it yet !!!!!!! Take care !!

Posted by englishbuddy on 03-27-2013 09:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lakeland Kennel
After just a quick look, I don't see anything in the English breed standards that call for an open mouthed hound. I may have missed something though.

There are several strains if English that are known for producing still trailers. I won't mention any names but if any one does some research, you will know I am speaking the truth. Some still trailers win big time in the hunts even though the rules clearly call for open trailers. No only English still trailers, still trailers of all breeds win in the hunts.

Very few genes that Speck carried are in the English gene pool these days. Just like almost every stud dog in the past, Specks genes have been outcrossed so much, I would doubt if any genetisist could find many if any genes that will trace back to Speck these days. How long has he been dead, 30 years or more?

I have never done this myself but I know for a fact that you can take any male out of tree minded strain of hound, (any breed) and cross it with a competition bred bird dog and get pups that will win competition hunts. Lots of times, you might have a hard time seeing the bird dog in the resulting pups. The bird dog will certainly tighten the resulting pups up making for some really good, tight mouthed coon dogs. But, it that what we want to breed for, part bird dogs? Personally, I will stick with full blooded English myself.

You hate this dog so much but yet you come to Ed Bates at the World Squirrel hunt with your note pad around your neck and your recorder lookin like Little Lord Fauntleroy wanting to do an interview on Ed and Hardtime Speck. Eddie didn't have time for you so you just started makin up stuff and all you will and are known for is the Speck Dog Hater ...... Opinions may change but facts will remain, Speck made his mark in history ,,,,,, What have you done ????

Posted by Doug Robinson on 03-27-2013 10:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lakeland Kennel
After just a quick look, I don't see anything in the English breed standards that call for an open mouthed hound. I may have missed something though I usually do.

There are several strains if English that may produce still trailers but I'm not sure. I won't mention any names but if any one does some research, you will discover all lines do including Junior. Some still trailers may win in the hunts even though the rules clearly call for open trailers. No only English still trailers, still trailers of all breeds may win in the hunts.

Very few genes that Speck, Junior, and Boyds Little Joe carried are up close in the English gene pool these days but many dogs are line bred on those traits. Just like almost every stud dog in the past, Specks genes have been outcrossed so much, I would doubt if any genetisist could find many if any genes that will trace back to Speck these days but what do I know. How long has he been dead, 30 years or more?

I have done this myself I know for a fact that you can take any male out of tree minded strain of hound, (any breed) and cross it with a competition bred bird dog and get pups that will win competition hunts. Lots of times, you might have a hard time seeing the bird dog in the resulting pups. The bird dog will certainly tighten the resulting pups up making for some really good, tight mouthed coon dogs. But, it that what we want to breed for, part bird dogs? Personally, I will stick with full blooded babblers and face barkers myselff.

Dave I clearly see you dont know much about genetics, but thats OK.

Posted by chuck west on 04-29-2015 05:35 PM:

I saw where a guy was wanting some info on Hardtime Speck,here is one thread .

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Posted by Carl Fox on 04-29-2015 09:08 PM:

HARD TIME SPECK WAS BORN RAISED AND TRAINED IN JACKSON COUNTY KENTUCKY BELIEVE IT WAS CALVIN HAYES THAT OWNED HIM AT THAT TIME BUT COULD HAVE BEEN ANOTHER HAYES.

THAT IS IN THE TOWN OF MCKEE KENTUCKY AND 20 MILES FROM WHERE I LIVE BUT I KNOW LITTLE ABOUT HIS BREEDING OR HIS WORLD HUNT WIN.

THERE ARE STILL QUITE A FEW HAYES IN JACKSON COUNTY THAT HUNT ENGLISH DOGS I AM SURE IF ONE COULD CONTACT THE RIGHT PERSON A LOT OF GOOD IMFORMATION WOULD COME OUT.

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