UKC Forums - Rules Question

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Posted by Randy Howard on 04-03-2012 06:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by longshot
A few years ago I was in a Nt Ch cast and all four dogs made 5 circles around us running a smoking hot track , crossing open fields , etc.

As a judge I suggested they all be scratched for what I determined to be a deer. One gentleman ask for a cast vote , which I figured would be divided..

ALL 4 GUYS VOTED SCRATCH FOR OFF GAME. We caught um' and went home. We never saw the deer but those guys made the right call.

Thats great. that doesn't happen often to get 4 to decide on honest facts. Like to hunt with the honest hounds men!!

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Posted by blueticker on 04-03-2012 07:17 PM:

A couple years ago I was pleasure hunting with a couple guys that didn't know my hound and one that knew him well. We had three hounds and struck a track in the corn. We went to running laps and it wasn't long until the two fella's gyp left and went her own way. She was just pecking around a quarter mile away. I was asked several times by the two what I thought they were running. My reply was I don't think anything there running a coon. After about and hour they left the corn, crossed the road into 6 inch high soybeans running to catch. The two fella's were cracking jokes about the hard running coon we had. The coon made it to a big oak and when the hounds rolled up on tree off a dead run you could hear a pen drop. I would sure hate to scratch someone for their hound running a coon. I could see someone hunting a piece of junk and scratching a hound that was ripping their butt on a track.

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Posted by Randy Howard on 04-03-2012 07:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Yea you guys are right. You can eventualy tell if it is a coon or trash. The speed and distance will tell a lot. That and time ran but these judges that want to get a dog for babbleing on the first dump will be scratching for trash every time they get in the woods with a dog faster than thiers.
I don't have a problem with the scratching for trash or babbleing but for it to be common since it has to be something you have delt with commonly. So for a lot of the judges I have seen it wouldn't be common since. We had a judge one night that had not written two tree we made on the first dump. They decided we needed to take the score card back to the MOH. The judge had written 120 minutes in the time slot allready so our hunt was over.
Now you can see why I don't want to see things left up to the judges common since. LOL

You are Right and we could open up a whole new discussion on Babblin, For some Have babblers and when you strike honest and get that first srike on them under the minute, they want to scratch/ LOL got to love the hunts. Just wish it could be honest all the time!!And the Best dog win or loose gracefuly with knowin that you and your dog did all you could do that night and you weren't handled by anyone else, just scored. U All be good!!Keep em cold nosed/And accurate!

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-03-2012 07:51 PM:

Man i gotta import some of these super southern coon, our coon up here are little furry critters 10 or 12 inches tall and a fast teenager can run one down and kick it. Im thinkin those 5hr runnin southern coon gotta be much taller, maybe the size of a deer or coyote.
I have however seen several dogs through the years that were pretty good at runnin one of those longlegged southern coon until they run up on a regular old ringtailed one and then get treed.

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Posted by patches9452 on 04-03-2012 07:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Man i gotta import some of these super southern coon, our coon up here are little furry critters 10 or 12 inches tall and a fast teenager can run one down and kick it. Im thinkin those 5hr runnin southern coon gotta be much taller, maybe the size of a deer or coyote.
I have however seen several dogs through the years that were pretty good at runnin one of those longlegged southern coon until they run up on a regular old ringtailed one and then get treed.

lol... if you have never hunted here you can have no idea.... you take a 12 or 14 lb coon and he can run your dogs in the ground in some of the places we have to hunt here... i dont care if you or anyone else believes it or not.... just shows your lack of knowledge on the situation

Posted by john Duemmer on 04-03-2012 08:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
lol... if you have never hunted here you can have no idea.... you take a 12 or 14 lb coon and he can run your dogs in the ground in some of the places we have to hunt here... i dont care if you or anyone else believes it or not.... just shows your lack of knowledge on the situation

Could be your right about my lack of knowledge, cause iv never unsnaped a dog in MS. Lets figue one of those southern coon can boogie along at 3 MPH. X 5hrs. that would be according to my uninformed math a 15 mile coon race.

I would pay some big money for a few of those coon.

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Posted by patches9452 on 04-03-2012 08:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Could be your right about my lack of knowledge, cause iv never unsnaped a dog in MS. Lets figue one of those southern coon can boogie along at 3 MPH. X 5hrs. that would be according to my uninformed math a 15 mile coon race.

I would pay some big money for a few of those coon.

no sr and 3mph want touch it... joke all you want... but the money becomes big when you have a dog can can tree that kind of coon.... im not trying to say every coon does this but is also is not uncommon either... i promise you they can run faster than you can or a teenager either... sometime you got some free time come on down in febuary... new yorks hunting is about snowed up by then anyway and i will take you and see how it goes... and will give you all that you can run down and catch lol

Posted by dixiedog on 04-03-2012 11:39 PM:

Back to a earlier post that I made. Lets say Dog A is the judges dog and it strikes within the minute and runs out of hearing almost and the rest of the dogs in cast strike and tree a coon in the woods that the dogs were dumped in and Dog A is still running and you have to call timeout to go get him and now you have only hunted maybe 30 -45 minutes of the 120 minutes and this dog does this on the next drop and so on and now hunt deadline is closing in on you. Is this fair to the rest of the cast that has brought a COONDOG to a COONHUNT. This is obvious what the dog is doing but the judge says that he is running a coon. Dog needs to be scratched.

Posted by patches9452 on 04-04-2012 12:12 AM:

no its not fair.... and if you hunt the hunt you will find many things not fair about them but.... what makes you think its running trash other than your dog isnt running it

Posted by GA DAWG on 04-04-2012 02:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Could be your right about my lack of knowledge, cause iv never unsnaped a dog in MS. Lets figue one of those southern coon can boogie along at 3 MPH. X 5hrs. that would be according to my uninformed math a 15 mile coon race.

I would pay some big money for a few of those coon.

Why not just get a dog that runs a deer wide open a few hours. Then finally gets tired and comes across a hot coon and trees it???? That'd be the same thing. Personally I don't want to hear a race that long. Bout 30 min is a long one..Mine be 4 county's over in a few hours. I ever come across a coon that runs that hard. He's a dead coon running

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-04-2012 02:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dixiedog
Back to a earlier post that I made. Lets say Dog A is the judges dog and it strikes within the minute and runs out of hearing almost and the rest of the dogs in cast strike and tree a coon in the woods that the dogs were dumped in and Dog A is still running and you have to call timeout to go get him and now you have only hunted maybe 30 -45 minutes of the 120 minutes and this dog does this on the next drop and so on and now hunt deadline is closing in on you. Is this fair to the rest of the cast that has brought a COONDOG to a COONHUNT. This is obvious what the dog is doing but the judge says that he is running a coon. Dog needs to be scratched.

It may not be running trash. Just a babbler that gets by itself. They same question would go to the ones that blow past coon to get by them selves. Is it fare to waste the time to walk to a dog a mile or more from the rest of the dogs just because the owner beat it for treeing with others or it is just dog shy and won't hunt with other dogs. If I had my way any dog that left the cast would get scratched.

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Posted by dixiedog on 04-04-2012 01:26 PM:

Okie Dawg. Hey man I dont know how long you have been around the coonhunts or anything about you but it is obvious not long because anybody that has can tell what a dog is doing right or wrong. I just take it that you only hunt perfect dogs and in perfect casts with ALL honest people. Trash is trash regardless how you look at it. The babbling idiots or the deer runners, its all the same. Good Luck yo you in your future hunts.

Posted by Randy Howard on 04-04-2012 04:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
It may not be running trash. Just a babbler that gets by itself. They same question would go to the ones that blow past coon to get by them selves. Is it fare to waste the time to walk to a dog a mile or more from the rest of the dogs just because the owner beat it for treeing with others or it is just dog shy and won't hunt with other dogs. If I had my way any dog that left the cast would get scratched.

What?

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-04-2012 04:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Randy Howard
What?

How fare is it to walk a mile to a dog that got deep and alone and ran past coon to do so? That wastes a lot of hunt time that could be used treeing coon instead of walking. If they have to go that far to find a coon is fine. But a dog that runs a mile to get by it self and wastes hunting time is worthless to me.
BUT IF YOU GET A BABBLER THAT WILL DO IT TO GET BY ITSELF YOU WILL HAVE FIRST STRIKE AND FIRST TREE EVERY TIME. LOL

Posted by dixiedog on 04-04-2012 07:41 PM:

I would rather walk a mile to a dog with a coon, than 1 that runs a deer every drop. Like a posted before . A coonhunter that has been hunting for just a little while can tell the difference between trash and coon track. Another thing, those babblers get caught sooner or later regardless if they end up with a coon somewhere. If they strike before that minute, they better show track going out of there, if not they are minused. Okie Dawg it sounds like you might want to get you a up to date UKC rule book. It sounds like me you are one of those hunters that never minus a dog to make a title.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 04-05-2012 05:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dixiedog
I would rather walk a mile to a dog with a coon, than 1 that runs a deer every drop. Like a posted before . A coonhunter that has been hunting for just a little while can tell the difference between trash and coon track. Another thing, those babblers get caught sooner or later regardless if they end up with a coon somewhere. If they strike before that minute, they better show track going out of there, if not they are minused. Okie Dawg it sounds like you might want to get you a up to date UKC rule book. It sounds like me you are one of those hunters that never minus a dog to make a title.

I have been training dogs long enough to know there is a time when a person thinks he knows it all. If they stay in it long enough to learn a little more they figure out they will never know it all. I will minuse mine or your in a heart beat if I know it is messing up. But I have been in it long enough to know that thinking a dog is doing something and knowing it is two differant things.
Have you been in it long enough to ever look a tree over real well, call it slick and then see eyes in it after you walk away?
If so and you stay in it a while longer you will prove yourself wrong when you KNOW WHAT YOUR DOG IS DOING.

Posted by patches9452 on 04-05-2012 10:22 AM:

breeding the tracking out of dogs...tight mouth dogs and people from up north where most tracks are under 200 yards makes it hard for people to believe a dog can run a track any distance with any speed and it be a coon.... if i had never hunted anywhere else i would probably be the same way

Posted by Randy Howard on 04-05-2012 02:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
breeding the tracking out of dogs...tight mouth dogs and people from up north where most tracks are under 200 yards makes it hard for people to believe a dog can run a track any distance with any speed and it be a coon.... if i had never hunted anywhere else i would probably be the same way

I would have to agree with you. I still like a cold nosed dog that will move a track out,and most of all end up with Mr.Ring tail.And I'm not talkin run junk and switch either.

Posted by dixiedog on 04-05-2012 03:23 PM:

patches 9452. Hey I have hunted in that wonderful state of MS and we didnt run coon for miles to tree them when I hunted there. It was about like hunting at home, just a little more water and a few more snakes. Had a good time though. Hey we didnt have trash runners or babblers those nights that I have been down there and we treed real live raccoons. Had a good time. I have hunted some places where Katrina made it rough hunting and still didnt run forever to tree a coon.

Posted by ONEDOGNIGHT on 04-05-2012 03:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dixiedog
patches 9452. Hey I have hunted in that wonderful state of MS and we didnt run coon for miles to tree them when I hunted there. It was about like hunting at home, just a little more water and a few more snakes. Had a good time though. Hey we didnt have trash runners or babblers those nights that I have been down there and we treed real live raccoons. Had a good time. I have hunted some places where Katrina made it rough hunting and still didnt run forever to tree a coon.

Most likely you where not here at the time of year the races can go a mile or more.

Posted by dixiedog on 04-05-2012 05:16 PM:

I understand a dog can run a track a long ways but there is a difference when 1 strikes out of the truck and cover 2 or 3 square miles running wide open every breath. It dont take a rocket scientists to figure out what the dog is doing. That whats a matter with hunts these days, people dont want to admit their dog is running junk. Everybody must have those perfect dogs. Man I would like to find 1of them . It must just be these North dogs arent as good as those South dogs. LOL.

Posted by GA DAWG on 04-05-2012 05:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by dixiedog
I understand a dog can run a track a long ways but there is a difference when 1 strikes out of the truck and cover 2 or 3 square miles running wide open every breath. It dont take a rocket scientists to figure out what the dog is doing. That whats a matter with hunts these days, people dont want to admit their dog is running junk. Everybody must have those perfect dogs. Man I would like to find 1of them . It must just be these North dogs arent as good as those South dogs. LOL.

Nah. That ain't it lol. You let me draw one that burns a coon track up for 2 hours. Id scratch it 1 hour and 50 min. Just for the heck of it. Don't like it? You best get a dog that's a little faster

Or break it from running them speed goats.

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Posted by dixiedog on 04-05-2012 07:38 PM:

Thats what Im saying GA DAWG. I guess some go to a hunt and hope they draw more trash runners that way they can title a dog out. Just dont make a lot of sense to me. Heck if my dog had to run a coon for 2-5 hrs like these guys are claiming they have to do down south, I would be looking for a better dog. The guys that claim their dogs have to run like that must only have 1 tree every square mile. LOL.

Posted by ONEDOGNIGHT on 04-06-2012 12:53 AM:

Was not saying all the time just certain times of the year. Heck a mile is not the **** far man. And by the way it has been a Long time since I where on a cast with a junk runner.

Posted by patches9452 on 04-06-2012 01:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dixiedog
Thats what Im saying GA DAWG. I guess some go to a hunt and hope they draw more trash runners that way they can title a dog out. Just dont make a lot of sense to me. Heck if my dog had to run a coon for 2-5 hrs like these guys are claiming they have to do down south, I would be looking for a better dog. The guys that claim their dogs have to run like that must only have 1 tree every square mile. LOL.

yall crack me up.... nobody runs coon like this every night i dont even average them once a month but it does happen... the night we ran the one 5 hrs we seen it cross the road 3 times before they finally caught it... had 4 good feet and no reason in the world not to climb except being stupid.... i have treed coon in hunts 20 ft from where we turn loose and there was no buckets either..... we scored 5 coon in the pkc winter classic last year in 40 minutes... the 6th coon jumped as we were getting to the tree and at the end of the hunt we had to catch the dogs.... went back in there that following monday night and treed him again and he jumped.... four and a half hours later we treed him again and i promise you that one will never jump again

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