UKC Forums - rule ?

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-- rule ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=492902)

Posted by Okie Dawg on 03-27-2012 07:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Just one mans opinion but if you arrive at the brush pile and it is obvious that the dog had been there the whole time trying to get at the coon and was satisfactorily showing end of the trail at a place of refuge other than a`tree then the dog did his job and the minus should be corrected.
The handler in this case probably should have known his dog a little better and suggested that the cast move in to see exactly what was going on in which case the dog wouldnt have been given the undeserved minus.
Why not correct a mistake when it becomes apparent?

John that is the way I see it. Might take a cast vote but I think if the cast agrees that is what happened we should add a little common since and change the minuse.

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Posted by JiM on 03-27-2012 07:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
After they minused the dog for moveing he had to tree it right back in. Then all dogs were treed on the same brush pile before it was over. You are right, that is a bad break. I just never had anything that obvious and didn't know if you could correct what was a bad call by the judge.

You still haven't told me anything that verifies the dog was in the brush pile when it was called treed. And why would he "have to tree it back in"? You NEVER have to tree your dog. Lastly, no matter where the coon is, tree, tile, pile, barn or my back pocket, when you say tree my dog, that dog has to stay or it is minused.
Very simply, you said in the very first post it moved. End of story, it's minused.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 03-27-2012 07:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You still haven't told me anything that verifies the dog was in the brush pile when it was called treed. And why would he "have to tree it back in"? You NEVER have to tree your dog. Lastly, no matter where the coon is, tree, tile, pile, barn or my back pocket, when you say tree my dog, that dog has to stay or it is minused.
Very simply, you said in the very first post it moved. End of story, it's minused.

Yep the dog moved, Yep the old can of worms, and yep the handler should have known his dog better.dog moved from one spot on the place of refuge to another spot on the same place of refuge.

Why so intent on punishing a dog that simply did the best it could given the situation when we have the option of correcting the minus to more accurately reflect the dogs performance?

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 03-27-2012 08:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You still haven't told me anything that verifies the dog was in the brush pile when it was called treed. And why would he "have to tree it back in"? You NEVER have to tree your dog. Lastly, no matter where the coon is, tree, tile, pile, barn or my back pocket, when you say tree my dog, that dog has to stay or it is minused.
Very simply, you said in the very first post it moved. End of story, it's minused.

He had to tree it back in becouse they minused it for moveing BEFORE they new it was moveing around a brush pile. He treed it back in becouse it was treeing. The rest of the cast treed there dog in then on the same brush pile. All the dogs were working in and around the pile when they got there.

Wasn't any question were the dog was when he was called treed. No one doughted that.

Posted by casey brown on 03-27-2012 09:05 PM:

If the cast votes that the hound was in the brush pile the whole time of course you erase the minuse. You can erase a minus I would think if the majority of the cast votes on it. The key is that the cast votes on how to score the tree and then proceed accordingly. I had this happen once in PKC and I know that they allow for common sense things. Its kind of like a hound that gets minused for moving deeper in the woods and then you find that it had its head in a hole. You have to vote on it. I think the best scenerio is to see what UKC Advisor has to say about erasing a minus if the majority of the cast agrees.

Posted by JiM on 03-27-2012 09:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Yep the dog moved, Yep the old can of worms, and yep the handler should have known his dog better.dog moved from one spot on the place of refuge to another spot on the same place of refuge.

Why so intent on punishing a dog that simply did the best it could given the situation when we have the option of correcting the minus to more accurately reflect the dogs performance?

John, neither you nor Okie has yet told me anything that says they know for sure the dog was in the pile when it was treed. That it was found in the pile doesn't mean it was there when they treed it. How do you know the dog wasn't on a tree when it was called treed? I think you have to know that before you can give it back.

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-27-2012 09:42 PM:

I'll whip the crap outta mine for getting in a brush pile. Same as a hole. No business in either one. I don't care if 10 coons are in there!

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Posted by jackbob42 on 03-27-2012 09:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buckshot
LOL, does that same theory hold true if coon goes up one tree and crosses over to another tree that branches touch?

As you said, coon went into brushpile in one place, well coon went up tree in one place.

Why should brushpile on ground be different than touching trees?

If he moves from the original tree that he was called treed on , then yes , he does get minused.
Now , if he is treed , and stays there , and then the coon is found to be in the next tree , and the two are scored as one , then he gets plussed.

If my dog gets hung-up on a fence , and I call him treed , and then he gets over it , moves (and gets minused) and trees again in 40 yards (with the coon) , you still gonna un-minus him?
Or , if he is called treed , and there are grapevines running down the edge of the woods. And then he moves 40 yards away from where he was called treed , you still gonna un-minus him?

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Posted by GA DAWG on 03-27-2012 09:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
If he moves from the original tree that he was called treed on , then yes , he does get minused.
Now , if he is treed , and stays there , and then the coon is found to be in the next tree , and the two are scored as one , then he gets plussed.

If my dog gets hung-up on a fence , and I call him treed , and then he gets over it , moves (and gets minused) and trees again in 40 yards (with the coon) , you still gonna un-minus him?
Or , if he is called treed , and there are grapevines running down the edge of the woods. And then he moves 40 yards away from where he was called treed , you still gonna un-minus him?

You evidently missed the un minus thread I started cause you do go back and un minus. In ukc. Not in Pkc

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