UKC Forums - Scratch, minus, or delete?

Pages (3): « 1 [2] 3 »
Show all 66 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Scratch, minus, or delete? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=491121)

Posted by amazingcursouth on 03-18-2012 01:10 PM:

I don't doubt that happened one bit. If I can't beat with the hound, I will beat with my mind....Thats the very reason many people never show up to the hunts.

__________________
Danny VunCannon
Home of :
Amazing Grace
Mossy Pond Modacious (MO)
Mossy Pond Amazing Gracie

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-18-2012 01:19 PM:

The Handler should file a complaint. The MOH should not be one anymore

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 03-18-2012 02:15 PM:

GA DAWG

THATS RIGHT.....THATS WHY I LIKE THE IDEAL OF A HUNT PANEL....THATS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DONT GO TO HUNTS LIKE THEY USE TO ...TO MUCH B.S.....

Posted by JiM on 03-18-2012 02:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by poolecw
Jim, what rules would back that up? What you said is how I have always scored it when this situation comes up. Nine times out of ten someone gets ticked off and gets their feelings hurt.

Poole, I use 6(k) to scratch dogs A,B C.
I use the Advisor to backup not scratching dog D because he came into the tree after he judge arrived.
I use rule 4(c) to minus D's tree points. And
I use rule 5(b) to circle D's strike points.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Posted by JiM on 03-18-2012 02:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by poolecw
Well, I will tell you guys something....this actually happend at an RQE last night. Dog D wasn't at the tree when the cast arrived. The judge said "dog D isn't here, so he's minused." Then, the handler of dog D sees him about 100 yards away coming in. He comes in to the hander. The judge sees the dog and instructs the handler to handle him. Shinning has not started at this point. After shinning and possum found, the first three dogs are scratched and they want to scratch dog D. Handler D questions it. They take a vote and its 3 to 1 on scratching the dog. The go back to the clubhouse. They explain it to the MOH who then asked the question "did ya'll vote on it in the woods? If so, I have to go with the vote". So, all four go to the house including dog D (who was winning the cast and would have had an hour to go back out to hun).

This just goes to show you that UKC rules are vague, even though most experienced competition hunters know the rules. Whats more important is that not all MOH's know the rules. I've seen many MOH's make the wrong call. You would think that at a RQE, the MOH that is used would be proficient enough to be able to handle anything that comes up.

UKC's rules are not vague at all, it's just that few bother to really learn them.
You would have got that MOH overturned if you had filed an FC and the MOH would have gotten a letter explaining that he screwed you. But yo didn't take it all the way and that's on you.

About the second time you win your FC is about the last time you have to file one because after that, they stop screwing with you.

Posted by poolecw on 03-18-2012 02:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
UKC's rules are not vague at all, it's just that few bother to really learn them.
You would have got that MOH overturned if you had filed an FC and the MOH would have gotten a letter explaining that he screwed you. But yo didn't take it all the way and that's on you.

About the second time you win your FC is about the last time you have to file one because after that, they stop screwing with you.

Didn't happen to me but was told about it after it happend. The more I think about it, I agree that a formal complaint should have been filed.

__________________
I support and recommend Dixie Outfitters
http://dixieoutfitters.com/?a_id=57978

Posted by Blackwater Pete on 03-18-2012 03:23 PM:

Just tell the handler of dog d to call ukc mon. they will deal with him it happened to me so it this deal should be taken care of as well.

__________________
Half owner Nt.Ch. Ch. Repeat's little Pinkslip
ch. pr smoker's wood hippie
Pr nocturnal Kryptonite
Proud member of PKC
Jason Denzer

Posted by Robert Johnson on 03-18-2012 04:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Blackwater Pete
Just tell the handler of dog d to call ukc mon. they will deal with him it happened to me so it this deal should be taken care of as well.

The deal you'll get is a lesson in the rules. If no formal complaint was filed, OFFICIALLY, the matter was closed when you accepted the wrong. They will tell you you may have got a bad break, but then you didn't follow procedure, therefore the matter is closed.

__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights

Treeing Walkers

912-663-5287 cell (perfered)

Posted by Winston Puryear on 03-18-2012 04:15 PM:

???

Did D xome into tree or cast? If came into cast and did not offer to tree then he should of been left alone. Why would judge ask to handle dog D??

__________________
Thanks
Winston Puryear
919-691-5120 Cell

Say a prayer for our Troops n remember we get to hunt while they sacrifice all!!

Posted by poolecw on 03-18-2012 04:31 PM:

Re: ???

quote:
Originally posted by Winston Puryear
Did D xome into tree or cast? If came into cast and did not offer to tree then he should of been left alone. Why would judge ask to handle dog D??

Dog D was minused for coming into the tree. After the rest of the cast saw it was a possum and were scratched, they voted to scratch dog D as well.

The judge wanted the handler to handle dog D because if a coon were to be seen, dog D's strike points would have been minused.

__________________
I support and recommend Dixie Outfitters
http://dixieoutfitters.com/?a_id=57978

Posted by JiM on 03-18-2012 04:39 PM:

Dogs at tree must be handled. "At tree", what is that? Well, if the cast is at the tree and the dog comes into the cast or any member of the cast. I would consider that dog to be "at the tree" and I'd order it handled. That is just how I would handle it, doesn't mean it is absolutely right. But it probably is.

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 03-18-2012 07:18 PM:

THAT JIM KNOWS HIS CHIT.....AND I AGREE AGAIN....

Posted by Rip on 03-18-2012 07:30 PM:

Jim is absolutely positively right on this.

__________________
Let's go huntin

Posted by JiM on 03-18-2012 07:32 PM:

Well you guys ain't no fun......

Posted by tuck@tree on 03-18-2012 08:51 PM:

THAT'S PITIFUL!!!! THE RULE IS HE IS MINUSED FOR LEAVING A TREE...NOT NECESSARILY THE TREE. YOU CAN'T SCRATCH HIM WHEN THE CAST BEAT HIM TO THE TREE. HE CAME INTO HIS HANDLER...PATHETIC!!!

Posted by Jason Baldwin on 03-18-2012 10:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
UKC's rules are not vague at all, it's just that few bother to really learn them.
You would have got that MOH overturned if you had filed an FC and the MOH would have gotten a letter explaining that he screwed you. But yo didn't take it all the way and that's on you.

About the second time you win your FC is about the last time you have to file one because after that, they stop screwing with you.

Has anyone on here ever filed a "formal complaint" ? does anyone on here know anyone personaly that ever filed a formal complaint ? What was the final outcome ? Before Pool ever posted the results if you guys will back up earlier in the thread you'll see what I said. NO WAY in this world are three other guys INCLUDING THE JUDGE about to let dog D go back out and hunt and win that hunt in that situation. no way.

Posted by poolecw on 03-18-2012 10:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Has anyone on here ever filed a "formal complaint" ? does anyone on here know anyone personaly that ever filed a formal complaint ? What was the final outcome ? Before Pool ever posted the results if you guys will back up earlier in the thread you'll see what I said. NO WAY in this world are three other guys INCLUDING THE JUDGE about to let dog D go back out and hunt and win that hunt in that situation. no way.

I get the emotion factor of the other thee handlers. Its not right but I get it. What I don't get is the MOH siding with the judge's ruling in the woods. Yeah, a FC should have been filed but it wasn't thought of until it was too late.

__________________
I support and recommend Dixie Outfitters
http://dixieoutfitters.com/?a_id=57978

Posted by JiM on 03-18-2012 10:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Has anyone on here ever filed a "formal complaint" ? does anyone on here know anyone personaly that ever filed a formal complaint ? What was the final outcome ? Before Pool ever posted the results if you guys will back up earlier in the thread you'll see what I said. NO WAY in this world are three other guys INCLUDING THE JUDGE about to let dog D go back out and hunt and win that hunt in that situation. no way.

Jason, I get the feeling you don't believe they exist or work. If you want, I am willing to pm you copies of the ones I filed and what came back from UKC.

Posted by smokin-1-mo on 03-18-2012 10:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Has anyone on here ever filed a "formal complaint" ? does anyone on here know anyone personaly that ever filed a formal complaint ? What was the final outcome ? Before Pool ever posted the results if you guys will back up earlier in the thread you'll see what I said. NO WAY in this world are three other guys INCLUDING THE JUDGE about to let dog D go back out and hunt and win that hunt in that situation. no way.

FORMAL COMPLANTS....YES.....I DID AND I WON...

Posted by Rip on 03-18-2012 11:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Has anyone on here ever filed a "formal complaint" ? does anyone on here know anyone personaly that ever filed a formal complaint ? What was the final outcome ? Before Pool ever posted the results if you guys will back up earlier in the thread you'll see what I said. NO WAY in this world are three other guys INCLUDING THE JUDGE about to let dog D go back out and hunt and win that hunt in that situation. no way.

Jason, if I had been on that cast I promise you the dog would have hunted the rest of the cast alone and I would have scratched my own dog.

I have personally seen the above case happen and have let the other dog hunt.

My brother had a similar situation where all dogs seemed to strike together, 3 had a possum his dog went right handed and split treed with a coon. One of the other handlers wanted to pull the "well he struck in the same place". It didn't work. The dog hunted the rest of the hunt by himself because the rest of the cast and the judge knew better.

__________________
Let's go huntin

Posted by Jason Baldwin on 03-18-2012 11:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Jason, I get the feeling you don't believe they exist or work. If you want, I am willing to pm you copies of the ones I filed and what came back from UKC.

That would be interesting. Thanks Jim.

Posted by Bill(Chew) on 03-18-2012 11:16 PM:

I've hunted the last of many nite champion casts alone after the other dogs treed a possom.

__________________
Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Posted by Jason Baldwin on 03-18-2012 11:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
I've hunted the last of many nite champion casts alone after the other dogs treed a possom.

What happens on this message board and what actually happens in the woods are SO different most of the times its almost funny. Nothing personaly against you Bill. I just mean in general. The fairness and honesty is all over the computer but not seen near as often in the woods at night. Just my opinion.

Posted by Rip on 03-18-2012 11:40 PM:

One more thing Jason. Yes the wrong things can happen on a cast. Sometimes they happen with the best of intentions (people didn't know the right way to score it but were not trying to cheat).

What I have found is that if a cast has at least one strong, upstanding member that knows the rules it usually makes those with less than good intentions to behave themselves.

After they try the first thing and that person is able to not only tell them that itsn't the way to score it, but can flip the card over and show them the rule then they usually stop trying to pull things.

In all my hunts I have only had 2 "bad" casts where people were trying to do things contrary to the rules.

There have been some with some disagreement, but only two where I thought someone was actually trying to pull something dishonest. I could have forgotten another one or two, but what I am trying to say is that it is rare and the people that have it happen to them "alot" usually don't have it happen near as much as they think, they just don't understand the rules and don't know why their dog got minused. Not all but by far the biggest majority of the time when I have seen people coming back talking about being cheated that was the root of the problem. They were convinced they were cheated, but in reality they were not they just didn't know or understand the rules.

Most of the time the cast will do the right thing. Even in the case above the three may have been ticked off at their dogs, disappointed or whatever but I bet if someone could show them the rules and be confident enough to know they were right that dog would have hunted by itself the rest of the night because I bet the majority would have realized they were wrong.

__________________
Let's go huntin

Posted by Jon Millwood on 03-18-2012 11:59 PM:

If the dog comes in after the cast arrives it is given next available tree points and if off game is seen the dog is minused on tree and circle strike points.. In this case dog D would continue the cast alone.. Its not a voting matter its a rule and if the MOH knew what he was talking about he would have over turned the cast and allowed the dog to go hunt.. I would have filed a formal complaint!

__________________
TREE BLAZIN KENNELS
GRCH GRNITECH TREE BLAZIN HALFTIME SHOW
Ground Hound Designs "like us on Facebook"

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:01 PM.

Pages (3): « 1 [2] 3 »
Show all 66 posts from this thread on one page